ALERT: Bad Selling Experience with "Electron"

Re: Bad Selling Experience with "Electron"

lasersbee said:

Since this was a transaction between Forum Community members
that have been here for a while I would have thought that the LPF
buyer could cut the International LPF seller a bit of extra slack...
But is seems the buyer is only interested looking out for himself
with no regard to anyone else... IMO

He had 45 days to open a Dispute and then another 2-3 weeks
to Escalate the dispute to a Claim where PayPal would handle
it. He would no have lost anything doing so..
If the package is held up in Customs... jumping the gun won't
speed it along...

I bought some Thermopile heads off eBay on Oct 03 that have
not yet shown up. I waited until the 44th day before opening
a Dispute.... Now I have until Dec 05 to open a Claim...
If the package is not here by Monday and I open the Claim it
will now give the package another few weeks to show up if it is
stuck in Customs.

If the package shows up before PayPal makes a decision I'll just
cancel the Claim... No harm No Foul except for the 2 months it took
to get here...


Jerry

Click to expand...

Hey there, you know I pm'd him first before I took any action what-so-ever. It was never suggested to me to do what you list above as a method to allow more time for an item to show-up. Had he requested that when I contacted him I would have been open to that suggest. That would really be not a bad idea. His pm back to me, made me feel I'm dammed if I do, and I'm dammed if I don't because I contacted him about it.

Re: Bad Selling Experience with "Electron"

electron said:

Hey there, you know I pm'd him first before I took any action what-so-ever. It was never suggested to me to do what you list above as a method to allow more time for an item to show-up. Had he requested that when I contacted him I would have been open to that suggest. That would really be not a bad idea. His pm back to me, made me feel I'm dammed if I do, and I'm dammed if I don't because I contacted him about it.

Click to expand...

Well that's just plain not true. Come on. You're just flat out not telling the truth now. Since you've brought my PM replies into question, I'm going to share exactly what I said. I know it's generally not considered appropriate to post PMs in the forum, but to clarify, I'm only posting my own PM here, and I'm only doing it since you brought this up. This is verbatim. Even the bold-italic emphasis on "working together" in this quote was in my actual PM reply sent to Electron.

To follow-up on my earlier email -

I was pretty clear on my position if you want to go the Paypal dispute route, but I realize that I was not clear on what we could do if you want to take the route of working together.

I have no intention of leaving you out to dry. I have a great (I think) reputation on the forum, I sell stuff frequently, and I have no interest in damaging that reputation, nor in leaving you without what you ordered. But, to be frank, this is a silly conversation to even be having at 4 weeks.

Anyway, if you want to work together, then if this package truly does end up being lost, I’ll worry about insurance on my end. Plus, before even waiting for that insurance coverage to clear (it probably takes a while) I’ll get a replacement laser sent out in your direction.

I’ve never left anyone hanging, or taken the excuse of “customs confiscation” as a means for getting off the hook.
I’m happy to work WITH you, if this package truly hits the measure of delay that would make it “lost” based on CanadaPost’s guidelines for this package type.

That time period certainly isn't 4 weeks.

I hope that clarifies my earlier PM and my stance a bit. If you want to work together, and wait for this package to either arrive, or reach the timeframe that it would be considered lost by CanadaPost, then I’ll make sure that you’re satisfied if that latter turns out to be the case (if it really does turn out to be lost). I'll make sure you get a replacement laser sent out, of equal or better specs. You won't be disappointed.

If you want to go down the Paypal dispute route, that's fine, but then that will be the extent of my participation – I’ll work only within Paypal, I'll defend my side of the dispute, and whatever they decide based on your dispute submission, and my response, as well as my proof of shipment, will be the final resolution.

We can work together, or we can work through Paypal. If we work together, I would hope that my reputation on this forum would be enough security for you to realize that you aren't going to end up empty handed. And if we work together, you're out a bit more time waiting for the package, and I'm out the cost of an additional laser build if it doesn't show up.

If we work through Paypal, I *think* they'll rule in my favour on account of proof-of-shipment, but I don't know for certain - they might rule in your favour. Either way, one of us will be out the entirety of the purchase price, and one of us won't.

Cheers

Click to expand...

Regardless though, at the end of the day, you got your free laser. So congrats.

Sad.

We have a saying in the UK.

If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck , its a duck.

Replace the word "duck" with "scammer".

This stinks to high heaven.

This is partly the reason I use Google checkout now. They don't put up with guys like this at all.

Consequently, for someone who filed two paypal claims against me I would think you know how the paypal dispute process works. Laserbee described exactly how to handle a situation where shipping is delayed and the dispute deadline is closing up. That is common forum selling knowledge, nothing new. It's been like that for years. (Did he even wait 45 days to file a claim?)

At this point I just hope he makes things right when the laser does show up. Fat chance of that though. Banning him does no good at all, if he wanted he could just come back with a new account and continue ripping people off. Either way, we should at least give the laser a chance to show up and for Electron to make things right with RHD. (since the 6 weeks hasn't passed, as far as I can tell.)

I'd also suggest all the reputable sellers switch to Google checkout to help break the Paypal monopoly and their "seller is always wrong" policy. Paypal clearly doesn't give a rats behind about the people paying their fees yet that's all sellers take anymore...

Post office is far from perfect, but as ped points out... If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck , its a duck.

I wouldn't be so quick to jump to the conclusion, but this isn't the first issue either.

Of course, all electron has to do in order to prove everyone wrong, is to actually send payment for the laser that he got, or will get in short order.

Electron has no excuses here. I'm with Ped on this one, Electron has not provided any good reasoning behind his actions.

Even if the laser does arrive, I doubt Electron will give RHD his money back.

ARGLaser said:

Electron has no excuses here. I'm with Ped on this one, Electron has not provided any good reasoning behind his actions.

Even if the laser does arrive, I doubt Electron will give RHD his money back.

Click to expand...

In a word BULL!

Re: Bad Selling Experience with "Electron"

electron said:

One should not to be too quick to judge, I've scammed no one on here; there are two sides to a coin. This thread was brought to my attention, and I will address these issues as soon as I have a little more free time. I'm bouncing between two locations right now with very long days. I spend an average of 1K+ a month through PP which really is non of anyone's real business, so I have no reason to try and play games for a couple hundred bucks. I think I keep the local mailman in business these days with packages most weeks.

Click to expand...

electron said:

Hey there, you know I pm'd him first before I took any action what-so-ever. It was never suggested to me to do what you list above as a method to allow more time for an item to show-up. Had he requested that when I contacted him I would have been open to that suggest. That would really be not a bad idea. His pm back to me, made me feel I'm dammed if I do, and I'm dammed if I don't because I contacted him about it.

Click to expand...

First let me repeat.... a buyer has a 45 day window to open
a DISPUTE to continue communicating with the Seller.... PayPal
is not even involved at this time...

Then you have an additional few week window (PayPal lets you
know the time of that window) before the window closes for a
CLAIM... That's when communication between seller and buyer
stops and PayPal steps in to settle the claim according to
documents supplied...

That being said.... Just like you I didn't just fall off the Turnip
Truck...
By your own admission you spend an average of $1K per month
through PP... You obviously are an expert on it's workings.
You are well aware of the procedures of opening a Dispute
and escalating it to a Claim.. IIRC you've opened other PayPal
claims that you even posted on LPF in the past..

Some of us here are not 10 years old and can't have the wool
pulled over our eyes... You are well aware of the PayPal Dispute
and Claim policies and time frames just like I am...

By the PM that RHD posted it is obvioulsly clear that he asked you
to give him a break on the PayPal Dispute/Claim and that he would
make it right even if the package was lost... he just wanted you to
wait a bit...

Would that have been so hard.... :thinking:

The only way that I see any logic in your actions is because you
had planned to get your money back whether the Laser was in
transit or in your hands and you were in a hurry to do it...

or

You are a self centered egotistic Non-Community Member that
cares only for himself with no empathy for others...

BTW... That's only my opinion...


Jerry

First off the only info if you want to call it that I got about the laser shipping was a brief pm stating “your laser is on its way, cheers” at about 11:30pm I don’t know how it got shipped out @ 11:30pm, but it was stated it’s on its way, I guess that was something to cheer about, but it contained no info of shipping method, tracking and/or insurance. Jumping forward for a minute to the thread rhd has started, he states he shipped it out on Nov 1st, the message I received was on Oct 31st; so I’ve no real idea of when it actually did ship out, is that the cause of the delay??? When was it physically given to the carrier?


Anyhow why is a buyer at fault for an item that has not arrived? I spent my money and waited & waited. Other International packages ordered on the same day and afterwards had already arrived. So since I had no real info on the package, I pm’d rhd to inquire about it; what I got back from him amounted to a canned essay, and asking me to give it more time, that it should have been here now, but sometimes it takes longer. Turns out he posted in this thread he was pissed that I even contacted him about it at that point, I guess I was suppose to send the money and then sit back and make no inquires at all.


I then waited another two weeks, and now we are at a full month and it’s still MIA, all along once again, all other International packages ordered after my last pm to rhd had already arrived. It’s my experience it doesn’t take 30 days or more for International packages to arrive at my location, your experience may be different, I can only speak to what I order. So I spoke to my local post office about it and while I had no tracking info for them to really help me out with locating it, I was told 30 days is more than enough time for a package from Canada to arrive.


I then pm’d rhd again, and got back an essay that basically told me very pointed not to file a claim until a period of time I felt would exceeded paypal requirements. He also told me that he would not communicate with me in any other manner than the paypal system if I opened the claim up. And that I would most likely lose my claim and he then wouldn’t help me get the insurance money or anything in consideration for my money. Well so that means at this point rhd meant to keep my money and he could get the insurance money for himself too, not a bad days work huh??


He did send me later on that day a second essay pm that basically said while he made it perfectly clear in his last pm what he’d do if I went to paypal, he didn’t make it clear what he’d being willing to do if for me if I didn’t go to paypal. I read through all of it, and yes I still was pissed from his other pm. So now we wait what ninety days or something, ship again and wait up to ninety more days?
I then did go ahead and open a dispute with paypal, and all he does is complain in the thread that he types 10 words or whatever for everyone 1 word I type. What’s that all about? Sounds like you have too much time on your hands, I don’t. How many words does it take to say IT DIDN’T ARRIVE ? and due to your attitude I didn’t see much else of a viable option.


So since he told me he wouldn’t communicate with me if I opened up the paypal dispute, which so far had not been done. Yes I then opened a dispute with PP, and didn’t try to escalate it yet, as I wanted to see him come into the paypal system and what he had to say, since he told me he wouldn’t communicate with me any other way. Little did I know at the time he certainly did create a thread about this, so he communicated openly about it after PP claim got opened, so obviously that wasn’t completely the truth either; otherwise I would have pm’d him one more time and discussed it further.



So I read you don’t believe me….Well according to YOU (rhd) you said the package is insured. That’s GREAT because while you might not understand the difference between tracking and tracing. There certainly is, While it can’t be tracked online; YES it can be traced by the Post Office because it’s insured!
Oh by the way you never provided me with any copies of anything showing insurance, shipping etc.
But you sure tried to dictate back to me what to do.
So what are you then going to say when they complete their TRACE that the package NEVER arrived to me??
So I’m enjoying NOTHING here but frustration, how dare you accuse me of anything else!


I send money, and somehow I get blamed for it not arriving???? Stop blaming the buyer! Dam if I do anything, dammed if I don’t.
I noticed too another buyer spent $400 for an Aragon laser with another seller and to make a long story short, it cost the buyer $400 for 45mins of use for a laser in great shape! A little expensive use huh?
Then it gets claimed he’s trying to scam and “probably” broke it himself and then wants his money back and filed a dispute, Imagine that?? IF he was trying to scam the seller, why then didn’t he say is was DOA? It would have went smoother with paypal, but no he didn’t do that because he is honest and got hosed out of $400. Bottom line, stop blaming buyers when something goes wrong!!!! He will probably win his charge-back and NO PayPal will not shut his account down, unless he commits fraud and I think he's already shown he's honest; banking regulation won't allow it, regardless what they may have done in the past; no fraud...no lose of account.



Hey I wonder IF you even got the shipping address correct? Naaaa you have a good record on here, I’m sure you didn’t make a mistake. Never-the-less post a scanned copy of your insurance claim that you will win, simply because the package NEVER arrived. Here in the States we have to sign for an insurance package, so you would get that info too, but since it didn’t arrive, it’s a moot point, but a good point at that.
In closing, IF the package should arrive it will be rightfully refused now, since I no longer have claim to it.


(Oh I haven't forgotten pontaic5, I'll address that later; again more than two sides to a coin)


I will also let you and the forum know if that occurs….now I need to get back and do some real work.

electron said:

First off the only info if you want to call it that I got about the laser shipping was a brief pm stating “your laser is on its way, cheers” at about 11:30pm I don’t know how it got shipped out @ 11:30pm, but it was stated it’s on its way, I guess that was something to cheer about, but it contained no info of shipping method, tracking and/or insurance. Jumping forward for a minute to the thread rhd has started, he states he shipped it out on Nov 1st, the message I received was on Oct 31st; so I’ve no real idea of when it actually did ship out, is that the cause of the delay??? When was it physically given to the carrier?

Click to expand...

What info were you expecting? It wasn't a tracked package, and the insurance isn't allocated a particular number or anything that would uniquely identify your package. There was no "info" to give you, apart from the fact that it had shipped.

You say you don't know how it shipped @ 11:30pm? I'm glad LPF keeps all these PMs.

At 10:52 AM (morning) your time on Monday the 31st:
- I PM'd you saying that it would ship that day, or the next.

At 11:37 PM (the PM you're referring to ) your time on Monday the 31st:
- I PM'd you saying the your laser was on its way.

How is it difficult or confusing to understand what happened here? Around 11AM in the morning, I acknowledged receiving your payment, and told you I would ship the package. Between 11AM in the morning, and my message to you at 11:30 PM that night, I shipped the laser. I obviously wasn't PMing you from the post office at 11:30 PM at night. I sent you the message when I got home. This comment "I don't know how it got shipped out @ 11:30pm" is childish.

Further, if there's confusion about the 31st versus the 1st, that's probably just the result of when I've recorded info on my end. I probably made notes about my 31st shipping run on the next day. I've also noticed that if I ship after the 5pm cutoff, they stamp shipping confirmations for the next day - so I may have gotten the 1st from that. If I said the 1st instead of the 31st, in my OP or in a PM, it was just a mistake. The package went out during the day on the 31st, when I said it did, and I have no idea how you find it this difficult to grasp that between 11am and 11:30pm, I found an open post office to ship from

electron said:

Anyhow why is a buyer at fault for an item that has not arrived? I spent my money and waited & waited. Other International packages ordered on the same day and afterwards had already arrived. So since I had no real info on the package, I pm’d rhd to inquire about it; what I got back from him amounted to a canned essay, and asking me to give it more time, that it should have been here now, but sometimes it takes longer. Turns out he posted in this thread he was pissed that I even contacted him about it at that point, I guess I was suppose to send the money and then sit back and make no inquires at all.

Click to expand...

This is again blatantly not true. When you inquired two weeks in, I wasn't pissed off. I haven't claimed that I was pissed off. I didn't send you a canned essay response. It may have been along reply, but that was to be thorough, and I wrote it in response to your thread not as some re-used boiler plate text.

electron said:

I then waited another two weeks, and now we are at a full month and it’s still MIA, all along once again, all other International packages ordered after my last pm to rhd had already arrived. It’s my experience it doesn’t take 30 days or more for International packages to arrive at my location, your experience may be different, I can only speak to what I order. So I spoke to my local post office about it and while I had no tracking info for them to really help me out with locating it, I was told 30 days is more than enough time for a package from Canada to arrive.

Click to expand...

Well, your experience is atypical then, because ground parcel shipping to the US has a delivery standard of 4 to 6 weeks for a reason. By the way, this explanation isn't new. I have mentioned this at every stage of discussion from your first PM two weeks in, until now. There was no *mystery* about what shipping method I had used, or how long it should take to arrive. In my first PM, I even searched for and provided you with the toll-free phone number for CanadaPost, so that you could verify with someone knowledgeable yourself.

I sold something to another member - I won't out him here - but his shipped around that time yours did, he contacted me about it at 5 weeks. I told him basically the same thing I told you. He said "cool, I'll hang tight", and then the very next day (which I guess was Monday of this week), it arrived. US sale, shipped at the same time as yours.

electron said:

I then pm’d rhd again, and got back an essay that basically told me very pointed not to file a claim until a period of time I felt would exceeded paypal requirements. He also told me that he would not communicate with me in any other manner than the paypal system if I opened the claim up. And that I would most likely lose my claim and he then wouldn’t help me get the insurance money or anything in consideration for my money. Well so that means at this point rhd meant to keep my money and he could get the insurance money for himself too, not a bad days work huh??

Click to expand...

That part is accurate. I told you that I would either work with you directly, and make sure you were completely happy and satisfied, etc. In the alternative, if you files a Paypal dispute, I would ONLY continue to work with you through that avenue, and their resolution would be binding. I think this was the correct approach to take. The insurance comment however, is not. If a package doesn't show up, it is true that the sending is the only one who can initiate an insurance claim. However, it still requires cooperation from the recipient. They need to verify the exchange, verify information about their address, CanadaPost will contact them, get them to confirm that the package hasn't shown up, etc etc etc. There was never any indication, as you have suggested, that in the event of you choosing the Paypal route, I would attempt to claim the insurance for myself.

electron said:

He did send me later on that day a second essay pm that basically said while he made it perfectly clear in his last pm what he’d do if I went to paypal, he didn’t make it clear what he’d being willing to do if for me if I didn’t go to paypal. I read through all of it, and yes I still was pissed from his other pm. So now we wait what ninety days or something, ship again and wait up to ninety more days?
I then did go ahead and open a dispute with paypal, and all he does is complain in the thread that he types 10 words or whatever for everyone 1 word I type. What’s that all about? Sounds like you have too much time on your hands, I don’t. How many words does it take to say IT DIDN’T ARRIVE ? and due to your attitude I didn’t see much else of a viable option.

So since he told me he wouldn’t communicate with me if I opened up the paypal dispute, which so far had not been done. Yes I then opened a dispute with PP, and didn’t try to escalate it yet, as I wanted to see him come into the paypal system and what he had to say, since he told me he wouldn’t communicate with me any other way. Little did I know at the time he certainly did create a thread about this, so he communicated openly about it after PP claim got opened, so obviously that wasn’t completely the truth either; otherwise I would have pm’d him one more time and discussed it further.

Click to expand...

You keep talking about "essays". I communicated with you, and I tried to pay you the respect of as thoughtfully and comprehensively addressing the situations as possible. Now you're using this "essay" jab as what, an attempt to demean me? For paying you the respect of giving you as thorough a response to your concerns as possible?

Further, I told you that I would no longer continue to communicate with you outside of Paypal if you went that route. That's exactly what I did. I didn't email or PM you at that stage. I never proposed, nor would I have ever proposed, to shy away from warning others in the community. IMO, warnings about members who interact unethically protect the community.

electron said:

So I read you don’t believe me….Well according to YOU (rhd) you said the package is insured. That’s GREAT because while you might not understand the difference between tracking and tracing. There certainly is, While it can’t be tracked online; YES it can be traced by the Post Office because it’s insured!
Oh by the way you never provided me with any copies of anything showing insurance, shipping etc.
But you sure tried to dictate back to me what to do.
So what are you then going to say when they complete their TRACE that the package NEVER arrived to me??
So I’m enjoying NOTHING here but frustration, how dare you accuse me of anything else!

Click to expand...

Again, NOT TRUE. I uploaded scans of shipping confirmation at the Paypal dispute stage, and even before that dispute, mentioned that I had them. I still have the scans now. Further, they cannot locate the package via tracking OR tracing. The CN22 form is what provides shipping confirmation. It gets stamped on the back by the post office. There are NO individually unique numbers on this form. There is nothing distinguishing the package from any other package.

You're correct that a "trace" is what CanadaPost would do if a claim is initiated. But for an untrackable package, the trace consists essentially of getting a bunch of information from me, including your phone number, and calling you to ask whether the package showed up. That's it - that's how a "trace" on this package would work.

electron said:

Hey I wonder IF you even got the shipping address correct? Naaaa you have a good record on here, I’m sure you didn’t make a mistake. Never-the-less post a scanned copy of your insurance claim that you will win, simply because the package NEVER arrived. Here in the States we have to sign for an insurance package, so you would get that info too, but since it didn’t arrive, it’s a moot point, but a good point at that.
In closing, IF the package should arrive it will be rightfully refused now, since I no longer have claim to it.

Click to expand...

I'm not going to address your comment about that other situation with the other sellers. We weren't involved, that thread was closed, that has nothing to do with either of us, nor with this issue.

However, as requested, here is a scanned copy of the insurance claim proof of shipment. It's integrated into the customs form - the CN22. That's how it works here, the customs form is the proof of the $100 insurance that came with this package type. And to clarify, I only use $100 insurance, because my presumption is that in the event of a problem, $100 would be sufficient to cover my production of a replacement.

In this scan, I have for your benefit redacted your name, and for my benefit redacted my signature. If you're so skeptical that you think I'm lying about what's under that pixelation, I'll send the un-redacted versions to someone reputable (or to you), in private, to verify. I just didn't want to post that publicly.

Very quickly I just wanted to say I think you mis-understood what I meant about the scanned insurance form. What I meant was when you get the claim back scan that and show that it went through because the package never arrived here; as far as the redaction goes, no issues with that. To let you know about the scans you said you sent PP, those were never shared with me by PP. I only see the comments that you type in the message box that says see below, those must be for PP only; I can give you a screenshot of what I see in my PP account and there are no scans accessible to me. I do agree you did send them to PP because they did tell me they were reviewing your documentation, but provided no copies of such to me.

WOW.
3 pages here to get you guys talking it out...
Even if in a slightly less than friendly way. (Just the feeling from reading it all.)

From "electron"'s point of view if the circumstances are as he make them out to be I can see somewhat how he did as he has. If he didn't get or see a communication or two from RHD then it would make a bit more sense. It still seems a bit premature to have initiated a claim, in my opinion as a shipper/receiver for almost 15 years now.
I'm not sure what kind of blessed place you live in that most of your international deliveries arrive in 4 weeks or less but it must be something special. I work for a company that regularly receives international shipments in anywhere from 4 to (let's see...6 months or half a year for a few of the worst case times...) 26 weeks. And these come from regular suppliers with frequent shipments to a business that does thousands of dollars every month with them. The "Regular" time frame for all deliveries from abroad is "six to eight weeks." That is standard for all businesses that I have worked with in the last 15 years.
Modern tracking and competition from various carriers has made things a bit faster for a lot of things but the old time schedule is still the best policy for ordering as it allows a little extra in case of delays. But that's just business norms or standards.

From RHD's perspective, and from his reputation here at LPF which can be easily searched and found in all the postings, I can also see that he has been forward and, to a point, overly communicative with you. He has tried to give you what you want while being careful to limit his own exposure. If you didn't get something he emailed/PM'd there is no way for him to know that. As he is more aware of the shortcomings of our own postal service and their operations you should have considered his appraisal perhaps a bit more or at least tried to confirm/disprove his suggested delivery times. This would mean looking up Canada Post info yourself AFTER you contacted your own postal department. (No country can tell you how the other one's governmental employees work. There will be some sluggish similarities but the union appointed details can defy description and not be understood well.)

There have been assumptions made by both sides and this has turned into problems for you both. (See ! I'm not taking a side here. It's the same as always when a dispute arises. You are both to blame to some respect. How much for each is up to you to decide. Then you usually can figure out a solution too.)

I hope you two can come to some suitable conclusion soon and this thread can be closed.
It isn't making for good reading anymore.

:yabbmad:
(Grumpy face)

ShortyInCanada said:

WOW.
3 pages here to get you guys talking it out...
Even if in a slightly less than friendly way. (Just the feeling from reading it all.)

From "electron"'s point of view if the circumstances are as he make them out to be I can see somewhat how he did as he has. If he didn't get or see a communication or two from RHD then it would make a bit more sense. It still seems a bit premature to have initiated a claim, in my opinion as a shipper/receiver for almost 15 years now.
I'm not sure what kind of blessed place you live in that most of your international deliveries arrive in 4 weeks or less but it must be something special. I work for a company that regularly receives international shipments in anywhere from 4 to (let's see...6 months or half a year for a few of the worst case times...) 26 weeks. And these come from regular suppliers with frequent shipments to a business that does thousands of dollars every month with them. The "Regular" time frame for all deliveries from abroad is "six to eight weeks." That is standard for all businesses that I have worked with in the last 15 years.
Modern tracking and competition from various carriers has made things a bit faster for a lot of things but the old time schedule is still the best policy for ordering as it allows a little extra in case of delays. But that's just business norms or standards.

From RHD's perspective, and from his reputation here at LPF which can be easily searched and found in all the postings, I can also see that he has been forward and, to a point, overly communicative with you. He has tried to give you what you want while being careful to limit his own exposure. If you didn't get something he emailed/PM'd there is no way for him to know that. As he is more aware of the shortcomings of our own postal service and their operations you should have considered his appraisal perhaps a bit more or at least tried to confirm/disprove his suggested delivery times. This would mean looking up Canada Post info yourself AFTER you contacted your own postal department. (No country can tell you how the other one's governmental employees work. There will be some sluggish similarities but the union appointed details can defy description and not be understood well.)

There have been assumptions made by both sides and this has turned into problems for you both. (See ! I'm not taking a side here. It's the same as always when a dispute arises. You are both to blame to some respect. How much for each is up to you to decide. Then you usually can figure out a solution too.)

I hope you two can come to some suitable conclusion soon and this thread can be closed.
It isn't making for good reading anymore.

:yabbmad:
(Grumpy face)

Click to expand...

Neither of them are to blame. Canada Post sucks plain and simple.

Also US customs could be holding it up....

Guyfromhe said:

Neither of them are to blame. Canada Post sucks plain and simple.

Also US customs could be holding it up....

Click to expand...

I'm not exactly thrilled with USPS either: http://photobucket.com/uspsfucksup

Edit: Sorry for the the OT. Hopefully rhd will eventually get the laser or money back at least, since it was insured.

InfinitusEquitas said:

I'm not exactly thrilled with USPS either: http://photobucket.com/uspsfucksup

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Canada post does that _ALL THE TIME_ We have to pay twice as much as you do though and wait twice as long for deliveries. Also our posties go on random strikes for months on end and hold all our mail hostage.

electron said:

Here in the States we have to sign for an insurance package, so you would get that info too, but since it didn’t arrive, it’s a moot point, but a good point at that.


(Oh I haven't forgotten pontaic5, I'll address that later; again more than two sides to a coin)

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Source?
You don't have to sign for a USPS packaged insured for less than $300.

I'll be waiting for you to "address" me. Really a moot point though, you are the ONLY one I've sold to on the forum who filed a claim against me and you filed TWO. I've sold thousands of dollars of laser stuff through this forum to hundreds of different members and you are the only one I've had a problem with.

But I guess you and Zdarhan or whatever his name is are the only ones who know how buying on the internet works. Except you don't know how the paypal claim process works.

Bull. Plain and simple. I do await your reply though, ought to be interesting.