Old 11-16-2013, 11:40 AM #33
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Default Re: Thermite

Wash the rebar (which I do) or the oxide powder? How can I wash a powder?


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Old 11-16-2013, 10:33 PM #34
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Default Re: Thermite

Here's the first rebar batch burning (using the cooked oxide inside the pan from my previous photo):



20g wasn't enough to make a hole on the can but was quite a show to watch! Burned a lot quicker than my previous attempt. Guess I got the mix right this time because it left a lot of iron blobs. Also managed to light it up with the Mg, the trick is to leave it above the powder and move just little powder over it.
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Old 11-16-2013, 10:50 PM #35
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Default Re: Thermite

Quote:
20g wasn't enough to make a hole on the can but was quite a show to watch! Burned a lot quicker than my previous attempt. Guess I got the mix right this time because it left a lot of iron blobs. Also managed to light it up with the Mg, the trick is to leave it above the powder and move just little powder over it.
Looks like you may have had some Vanadium oxide in there as well as Fe2O3?

That appears to be more or less successful Thermite reaction.
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Old 11-16-2013, 11:11 PM #36
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Default Re: Thermite

Why do you think there was Vanadium oxide there?
Wiki says they use it on steel alloys, maybe the rebar had it.

Any tips to improve the reaction?
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Old 11-16-2013, 11:29 PM #37
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Exclamation Re: Thermite

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicrox View Post
Why do you think there was Vanadium oxide there?
Wiki says they use it on steel alloys, maybe the rebar had it.

Any tips to improve the reaction?
I thought there might be some Vanadium oxides (perhaps pentoxide?) due to the bright sparkles thrown from the reaction of your thermite.
Vanadium oxides also tend to burn quite quickly as well.

It's highly likely that you had Vanadated Steel as it is extremely common to find in construction.

If you want to improve this reaction, you'll need better materials, I do suggest that you find a pottery store or hardware store. Look for Red Iron oxide brick colorant. It's +95%/99.9% pure Fe2O3. I have seen it for sale in construction hardware stores for DIY brick or patio building.

At any rate, I will post the Thermite experimenters page below, a page that
shows virtually all the various kinds of thermites one can make.

Amazing Rust.com - Thermite

enjoy!
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Old 11-17-2013, 12:38 PM #38
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Default Re: Thermite

Just found out that Vanadium is highly toxic. I was producing more oxide but I'm giving up.

That site is pretty cool. My reaction also looked somewhat like the Fe3O4 reactions but who knows. Heat was supposed to change that into Fe2O3.

I'll see if I can find the stuf for sale.
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Old 11-17-2013, 02:39 PM #39
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Thumbs up Re: Thermite

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicrox View Post
Just found out that Vanadium is highly toxic. I was producing more oxide but I'm giving up.

That site is pretty cool. My reaction also looked somewhat like the Fe3O4 reactions but who knows. Heat was supposed to change that into Fe2O3.

I'll see if I can find the stuf for sale.
Well, looks like you had a good go at trying to DIY some Fe2O3 (red rust)
btw, the amounts of Vanadium in the steel is actually plated on the outer surface as an anti-rusting agent. Vanadium salts are very moderately toxic,
so I wouldn't worry too much. Still, ALWAYS observe proper safety methods and always wear gloves and appropriate eye ware when handling fine dry metal/metal oxide powders.
So, yes the bright white sparkles seen in the video, may be infact be some Vanadium.

Either way, I applaud you for DIY attempt at making your own thermite!
You had success!
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Old 11-18-2013, 10:53 PM #40
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Default Re: Thermite

Thanks!
If it's just the outer surface the other batch I have made should work better, as I discarded the outer portion.
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480nm: hostless by Atomic (125mW pk)
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low 520nm: MXDL pen by DTR (31.6mW pk|28.8mW avg)
high 520nm: Laserlands (8mW avg)
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638nm: Classic from Lazerer (409.3mW pk|389.4mW avg|415mW rtd)
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Old 11-19-2013, 01:41 AM #41
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Default Re: Thermite

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicrox View Post
Wash the rebar (which I do) or the oxide powder
Both

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicrox View Post
How can I wash a powder?
Put it on a filter and run clean water over it until the salt is removed.
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Old 11-20-2013, 02:04 AM #42
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Default Re: Thermite

Filtering already takes too long without doing that
I'm trying to find a source of high purity Fe2O3 so I don't have to keep doing this whole thing, LOL
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Old 11-20-2013, 07:36 AM #43
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Default Re: Thermite

I would think it would be a whole lot easier than finding a source of anti-stokes phosphor.
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Old 11-22-2013, 05:47 PM #44
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Default Re: Thermite

If you have not yet given up on the electrolysis part I have a few recommendations for you that will increase your yield and purity/concentration of the product. (These are just my recommendations of what I'm told in chemlab, not compulsory remarks)

Use distilled water instead of tap water. (distilled water does not contain any random ions that tap water has; these ions in the tap water will grab the excess chloride ions and we do not want that happening....remember to not drink the distilled H2O!)

Saturate the water with the salt until no more salt can dissolve. Although this will not make the product more pure, it will certainly speed up the reaction rate.

If at all possible, minimize the amount of nail/re-bar that is not in the salt water, I'm not sure what the atmosphere does to the oxidation, but it may produce undesired products.

Make sure that your container is made of glass. Plastic, although inert under electronic conditions, can still result in impurities because it is more porous than glass and will leak impurities into the mixture.

Try using potassium chloride instead of sodium chloride, these potassium atoms are much bigger and carry more electrons through the water.
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Old 11-22-2013, 08:52 PM #45
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Default Re: Thermite

I just managed to find a pottery store (I stand corrected, wasn't that hard to find at all) and bought about 1kg of "red iron oxide" for 7USD. I hope it's the right stuff and that it's pure, they didn't know the chemical composition. Is there a simple way to test it?

If it's the right stuff I'll surely give up electrolysis for good. Not worth the trouble, the stuff is very cheap.

But thanks for the tips! Are you sure about saturating the solution? I was doing the exact opposite to avoid contaminating the product.
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Old 11-22-2013, 11:35 PM #46
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Default Re: Thermite

You can test it if you have an Oxy/Ace torch, take a sample and put it on a brick or something that won't burn and heat it up, if it fuses and
forms a button of iron your in business if it doesn't form a button of iron I don't know what to tell you other than you might try here> Iron Oxide Red Powder

And this is the least expensive aluminum and should probably work for you> Coarse Aluminum Powder +20-100 Mesh Flake & Granular

good luck...




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Originally Posted by Atomicrox View Post
I just managed to find a pottery store (I stand corrected, wasn't that hard to find at all) and bought about 1kg of "red iron oxide" for 7USD. I hope it's the right stuff and that it's pure, they didn't know the chemical composition. Is there a simple way to test it?

If it's the right stuff I'll surely give up electrolysis for good. Not worth the trouble, the stuff is very cheap.

But thanks for the tips! Are you sure about saturating the solution? I was doing the exact opposite to avoid contaminating the product.
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Old 11-23-2013, 04:14 AM #47
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Default Re: Thermite

I've found that using a torch will tend to blow away any powders I'm trying to melt. It's also a trick to find a
surface the torch won't melt or burn.

Adding more salt will speed the reaction, but it will also consume more power and make more heat. I
would recommend adding the maximum amount of salt your power supply can handle. The hot water
will evaporate so keep adding more or else it will overload the power supply. Rinsing will get rid of all
the salt. You can filter with coffee filters or old shirts or whatever.

Distilled water is harmless BTW. I've been drinking it for years. Heavy water is the thing to avoid.
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Old 11-25-2013, 06:47 PM #48
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Default Re: Thermite

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicrox View Post
I just managed to find a pottery store (I stand corrected, wasn't that hard to find at all) and bought about 1kg of "red iron oxide" for 7USD. I hope it's the right stuff and that it's pure, they didn't know the chemical composition. Is there a simple way to test it?

If it's the right stuff I'll surely give up electrolysis for good. Not worth the trouble, the stuff is very cheap.

But thanks for the tips! Are you sure about saturating the solution? I was doing the exact opposite to avoid contaminating the product.
Okay I did some more research and salt is NOT the electrolyte you want....

What you want it sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) because there aren't any harmful byproducts like chlorine gas...
4 Fe + 3 O2 + 2 H2O → 4 FeO(OH)
However, the product is what I like to call Iron(III) Oxide-Hydroxide or Ferric Oxy-Hydroxide, and not Iron(III)Oxide....This product can be decomposed into the desired Fe2O3 by heating it to exactly 201 degrees Celcius. The decomposition reaction shown below.
2 FeO(OH) →(200C) Fe2O3 + H2O

**Note**
Saturating the solution will also give you a less pure product....sorry about that confusion :/ it will however speed up the reaction
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