Old 06-28-2014, 09:54 AM #1
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Default Members should not be allowed to request that threads be closed, unless good reason.

I saw a thread elsewhere where the OP didn't like where the discussion went, and ultimately the OP asked mods to close the thread. Mods obliged. This is not about that thread, or about anyone involved in it - those are details. I'm talking about it in a more general sense.

With relatively few exceptions, I think that members should not be allowed to request that mods close threads, and that such requests should not be honored unless there is a good and articulable reason for it. By that I mean that there should be something wrong with the thread beyond the OP merely being unhappy with the discussion.

"I'm the OP and I don't want to talk about this anymore" is not a good reason to close a thread - IMHO mods should not honor this type of request. The OP may not want to talk about it, but other members might, and maybe they have a good reason. Members should be allowed to respond freely as long as they stick to the rules. The OP has the right to simply not respond to anything further, and that should be enough.

"This is not up for discussion" / etc. is also not a good reason for closing a thread, and mods should disregard these requests as well. OP doesn't get to make that decision - people viewing the thread make that decision by replying to the thread if interested, or remaining silent if not. Again, OP has the right to simply not respond if they are no longer interested in the discussion, and again, that should be enough.

I think "close this thread" requests should only be honored if the thread, or posts in the thread, are violating forum rules, or if a large amount of wrong/bad information has been posted. There should be something demonstrably wrong with the thread - "I don't like it" is an opinion, not a demonstrable problem.

Wrong information *is* a real problem, on the other hand - it's a major safety concern in this hobby, and if a thread can't be "fixed" it might be better to close or delete it. Decisions would have to be a case-by-case basis.

But in general, members should not be able to request that "their" threads be closed simply because they are the OP and they no longer like the thread. It is not really their thread to close - the thread belongs to the community at large, not the OP.

At most, OP should be able to edit/delete their own posts if they want, but they should not be able to prevent other members from commenting further. Closing threads severely impedes open discussion, and my experience is that when the thread runs its course it will die off on its own.

Just putting my 0.02 out there though, I could be wrong.


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Old 06-28-2014, 11:02 AM #2
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Default Re: Members should not be allowed to request that threads be closed, unless good reas

Here is my opinion on all of that.

The forum is like a house. Each member can create threads. In my mind, a thread is where a member makes a sort of home so let's call it a room. Now while there are certain house rules, people generally have their own rules for how their own space should be treated. When you walk into someone's room you don't go against those rules unless you want to be shown the door.

Now. One of the big problems when threads get out of hand, is that the arguing escalates. This is annoying and can lead to people using demonstrative verbage and can result in some wrist slapping temp ban action. I have seen this happen before.

If someone opens a thread and says "I don't want to talk about [x], and that needs to be the end of it" then you, as guests in their mini-room should either abide by that request, or PM them to request clarification if it is needed.

Closing threads is a way for people to keep their room from becoming a part of a fight. When fights break out in rooms, the room owner is often caught up in the action for better or worse. Closing the door and getting everyone out(I.E-closing the thread) allows them to control their involvement in a fight/argument.

It takes two people to argue. So if the OP closes the thread after people have shown the desire to debate(argue) with them, is he/she not being the "bigger man"?

It is very easy to rebutt or get caught up in the back and forth. In the end though, the ability to request a thread closing is one vital way that order is able to be maintained on the forums.

If any of you are against Thread Closings because you might not be able to post-edit statements you made that make you look bad, do not make such statements in the first place. A closed thread is still there for all to see. The OP is not changing or hiding anything. They are merely removing the matches from the spilt can of gasoline.

Also if anyone still wishes to discuss it, they are free to make a thread or a group or send a bunch of PM's. That is what those things are made for.

Just my $2.36.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco Polo View Post
I saw a thread elsewhere where the OP didn't like where the discussion went, and ultimately the OP asked mods to close the thread. Mods obliged. This is not about that thread, or about anyone involved in it - those are details. I'm talking about it in a more general sense.

With relatively few exceptions, I think that members should not be allowed to request that mods close threads, and that such requests should not be honored unless there is a good and articulable reason for it. By that I mean that there should be something wrong with the thread beyond the OP merely being unhappy with the discussion.

"I'm the OP and I don't want to talk about this anymore" is not a good reason to close a thread - IMHO mods should not honor this type of request. The OP may not want to talk about it, but other members might, and maybe they have a good reason. Members should be allowed to respond freely as long as they stick to the rules. The OP has the right to simply not respond to anything further, and that should be enough.

"This is not up for discussion" / etc. is also not a good reason for closing a thread, and mods should disregard these requests as well. OP doesn't get to make that decision - people viewing the thread make that decision by replying to the thread if interested, or remaining silent if not. Again, OP has the right to simply not respond if they are no longer interested in the discussion, and again, that should be enough.

I think "close this thread" requests should only be honored if the thread, or posts in the thread, are violating forum rules, or if a large amount of wrong/bad information has been posted. There should be something demonstrably wrong with the thread - "I don't like it" is an opinion, not a demonstrable problem.

Wrong information *is* a real problem, on the other hand - it's a major safety concern in this hobby, and if a thread can't be "fixed" it might be better to close or delete it. Decisions would have to be a case-by-case basis.

But in general, members should not be able to request that "their" threads be closed simply because they are the OP and they no longer like the thread. It is not really their thread to close - the thread belongs to the community at large, not the OP.

At most, OP should be able to edit/delete their own posts if they want, but they should not be able to prevent other members from commenting further. Closing threads severely impedes open discussion, and my experience is that when the thread runs its course it will die off on its own.

Just putting my 0.02 out there though, I could be wrong.
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Old 06-28-2014, 11:07 AM #3
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Default Re: Members should not be allowed to request that threads be closed, unless good reas

I agree but this isn't a democracy, we have a thread that has some of the most vile and disgusting hate speech on the entire internet since 7-12-2008 and it was never closed and it is a sticky! Because most of the members here have an extreme hatred and anger toward Christians and any others with any religious beliefs. Yet I have seen something mild by comparison deleted by a mod. Every web site is controlled by one person with their own beliefs and opinions, and the mods that manage this site like any other have there own opinions and beliefs that will always vary somewhat from what you or I think about anything. Anyway the different points of view from those all over the world is what makes a forum like this interesting. As a long time webmaster myself I know there will always be lots of disagreement. The mods will manage things as they see fit. I am sure they make their decisions on a case-by-case basis.

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Old 06-28-2014, 11:25 AM #4
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Default Re: Members should not be allowed to request that threads be closed, unless good reas

Closing threads is common practice, now deleting/altering threads is pure censorship and would be my que to leave. Pi R well spoken very good insight.
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Old 06-28-2014, 03:33 PM #5
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Default Re: Members should not be allowed to request that threads be closed, unless good reas

Usually close requests are dealt with on a case-by-case basis. I usually honor them only if feel there is a risk of the thread escalating into a fight or if trolling is occurring.

We are human though, I'm sure I've sometimes misjudged a situation and closed one that didn't need to be.
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Old 06-28-2014, 06:46 PM #6
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Default Re: Members should not be allowed to request that threads be closed, unless good reas

If there were a vote to allow members who create threads to be able to close them, I'd vote for it. There's another issue I stumbled upon and that is I accidentally posted to a thread that was from last year and another member became upset and gave bad feed back with a derogatory remark added too. If posting to an old thread, even if still on the current page of the section is so frowned upon, as I was told, why allow anyone to post to anything older than a year, why not lock those?
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Old 06-28-2014, 08:24 PM #7
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Default Re: Members should not be allowed to request that threads be closed, unless good reas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laser Project View Post
If there were a vote to allow members who create threads to be able to close them, I'd vote for it. There's another issue I stumbled upon and that is I accidentally posted to a thread that was from last year and another member became upset and gave bad feed back with a derogatory remark added too. If posting to an old thread, even if still on the current page of the section is so frowned upon, as I was told, why allow anyone to post to anything older than a year, why not lock those?
It's not necroposting in itself that's fround upon. While true that some people don't like it at all, most as far as I can tell, don't mind as long as something new is added.

For the most part, no body likes when someone comes along and post a question or irrelevant comment in a dead thread. However, if someone post new info or in any way contributes something new, it's not that big of a deal.

They are not closed for that reason. There is always a chance new info/experience will change the thread making it more relevant, accurate, ect.
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Old 06-28-2014, 09:44 PM #8
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Default Re: Members should not be allowed to request that threads be closed, unless good reas

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Originally Posted by Pi R Squared View Post
we have a thread that has some of the most vile and disgusting hate speech on the entire internet since 7-12-2008 and it was never closed and it is a sticky! Because most of the members here have an extreme hatred and anger toward Christians and any others with any religious beliefs.
I think I know of the thread you are referencing, and while I generally don't keep up on it or post in it, I don't remember seeing any hate speech in what I did read of it. That isn't me saying it isn't there, but more precisely I am saying if you don't like it then don't read it. I don't participate in that thread because it does not interest me or prove worth my time to expose myself to the theistic postings of others. For the most part one can easily avoid any topic they wish to without much trouble on these forums. What is not easily avoided is member signature content that one finds offensive. For example, the various members who have "jesus saves" and such in giant lettering. Despite the inability to avoid the harmless but annoying content of signatures I will not report someone for it. Again, there's no need for that. I digress though, that isn't important.

It is up to the moderators to decide what is and is not appropriate to close, not the members. Members asking or suggesting something be closed to the mods is simply the equivalent of holding that thread up so the mods can focus on it. There are hundreds of threads and only a couple mods, they're not going to see everything all the time.

Oh and just for clarity my second paragraph is not in reply to your post, Pi, just a general contribution to the thread. I know you feel the mods are doing right too.
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Old 06-29-2014, 12:49 AM #9
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Default Re: Members should not be allowed to request that threads be closed, unless good reas

Keep in mind, when I refer to "bad post" or "inappropriate post", what I mean is a post that violates the forum rules, or is purely intended to troll and cause upset, and which are not relevant or constructive to the original topic of the thread in question. If that helps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IsaacT View Post
Here is my opinion on all of that.

The forum is like a house. Each member can create threads. In my mind, a thread is where a member makes a sort of home so let's call it a room. Here is where I begin to disagree.Now while there are certain house rules, people generally have their own rules for how their own space should be treated. When you walk into someone's room you don't go against those rules unless you want to be shown the door. Ok.
But it isn't a closed room with a door at all. The forum is more like an exhibit at a large, open science fair. Each member gets their own space (their member account) and can do whatever they want with it (as long as they stick to the rules). But, it's an open space, and when a member posts a thread, it's there for the viewers to see and comment on as they see fit.

As to being shown the door, the OP doesn't get to show me the door because I was not in their space to begin with. What I mean is, their original post is analogous to an art/science exhibit within their assigned area. The viewers aren't allowed to touch the exhibit or change it. However, the viewers can comment as they see fit and the OP has no say in it. The viewers have no obligation to the OP beyond being civil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IsaacT
Now. One of the big problems when threads get out of hand, is that the arguing escalates. This is annoying and can lead to people using demonstrative verbage and can result in some wrist slapping temp ban action. I have seen this happen before.
Again, the OP has no say whatsoever, in terms of how viewers will respond. They have no say, and they should have no say. If people are trolling your thread or are disrespectful, then that is actually THEIR problem, and NOT yours. Report the post if it violates the rules, beyond that, do nothing. Maybe they're having a bad day, or maybe they're just being an asshole - you are not required to do either, so DON'T.

Closing your thread because you don't like the discussion would be like telling onlookers at the science fair to stop talking about your display. Even if the viewers are jeering you, telling them to shut up just looks petty. Don't bother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IsaacT
If someone opens a thread and says "I don't want to talk about [x], and that needs to be the end of it" then you, as guests in their mini-room should either abide by that request, or PM them to request clarification if it is needed.
I am not a guest in their room, I'm a viewer on the opposite side of the cordon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IsaacT
Closing threads is a way for people to keep their room from becoming a part of a fight. When fights break out in rooms, the room owner is often caught up in the action for better or worse. Closing the door and getting everyone out(I.E-closing the thread) allows them to control their involvement in a fight/argument.
Again, open space rather than rooms, and keep in mind that your assigned "space" is actually your member account, and not your individual posts/threads. The fact that the forum is divided into sub-forums doesn't change that.

If the assholes want to troll or fight? Let them fight, fuck 'em... call security and let them sort it out. If you get involved in the drama you risk getting tased along with the idiots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IsaacT
It takes two people to argue. So if the OP closes the thread after people have shown the desire to debate(argue) with them, is he/she not being the "bigger man"?
I think it's a short-sighted move. Troll posts can be reported and deleted. Closing the thread stops bad posts but it prevents and futher discussion, including positive, constructive discussion, on the matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IsaacT
It is very easy to rebutt or get caught up in the back and forth. In the end though, the ability to request a thread closing is one vital way that order is able to be maintained on the forums.
It is easy to get sucked into that crap, I agree. Members can help maintain order by not contributing to disorder, and by reporting inappropriate posts. Stopping a discussion is not "maintaining order", it's just stopping a discussion. It doesn't stop trolls from being trolls; they will just post in another thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IsaacT
If any of you are against Thread Closings because you might not be able to post-edit statements you made that make you look bad, do not make such statements in the first place. A closed thread is still there for all to see. The OP is not changing or hiding anything. They are merely removing the matches from the spilt can of gasoline.
Yes, still there for all to see, our members at their finest, and aren't we proud of that? I would rather the inappropriate posts be deleted than see the topic closed and left visible, where the examples of our bad behavior can reflect poorly on the rest of the forum.

Quote:
Also if anyone still wishes to discuss it, they are free to make a thread or a group or send a bunch of PM's. That is what those things are made for.
Making a new thread would just irritate the person who closed their thread, wouldn't it? Probably would just cause more angry comments. Why clutter the database with two threads about the same arguments when all of it can be kept in one thread?


Oh well, those are my thoughts on that, I could be wrong.
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Last edited by Marco Polo; 06-29-2014 at 12:59 AM.
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Old 06-29-2014, 12:59 AM #10
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Default Re: Members should not be allowed to request that threads be closed, unless good reas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco Polo View Post
Making a new thread would just irritate the person who closed their thread, wouldn't it? Probably would just cause more angry comments. Why clutter the database with two threads about the same arguments when all of it can be kept in one thread?


Oh well, those are my thoughts on that, I could be wrong.
I don't think the person who closed the thread should have any say in what thread someone else posts. They cannot have it both ways. I think closing threads is okay, but they have no right to dictate what you can or cannot post.

The rest of your points were clearly stated, and I can see validity in much of what you said. That being said, I still stand by the idea that in many cases being able to close a thread solves more problems than it causes.

Not all, but many. Obviously if there is some sort of slander made towards someone by an OP they should not be able to close the thread because the other person is left looking very bad if the slander was well thrown. But that comes down to the mods, and I don't think a mod would approve that anyway.

In the end it all does come down to the mods. Luckily we have some very level headed folks packin' the badges around here, so I am not worried about a thread being closed when it shouldn't have or left open when the discussion had degraded into petty bickering.
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Old 06-29-2014, 01:58 AM #11
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Default Re: Members should not be allowed to request that threads be closed, unless good reas

I think the answer is simple- if the original poster, nd only the original poster, wants a thread closed, then he or she should privately message a staff member with their reasoning for wanting it removed/closed, and then the decision should be strictly staff only. Like what was previously mentioned however, straight up censorship should not be a thing, ever. I understand its happened a few times, like the WL thread, but that was for legal reasons, so its understandable.

Bottom line, there will always be arguments, there will always be disrespect. We are only human after all

well except Ped, not quite sure what the heck he is


Quote:
Originally Posted by Laser Project View Post
...There's another issue I stumbled upon and that is I accidentally posted to a thread that was from last year and another member became upset and gave bad feed back with a derogatory remark added too.
For the love of all that is sweet and holy in this world, get over it. Your profile shows a picture of a man that is definitely an adult, so please, act like it and just drop it. Unless that picture isnt you, in which case thats kinda weird.
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Old 06-29-2014, 07:16 AM #12
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Default Re: Members should not be allowed to request that threads be closed, unless good reas

Jerry!!! Jerry!!! Jerry!!!
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Last edited by Marco Polo; 06-29-2014 at 07:18 AM.
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Old 06-29-2014, 11:44 PM #13
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Default Re: Members should not be allowed to request that threads be closed, unless good reas

On topic - I feel the OP has the right to have it closed for whatever reason they want.

Off topic - These are fitting with the way this topic has started going...


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Old 06-30-2014, 12:37 AM #14
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Default Re: Members should not be allowed to request that threads be closed, unless good reas

This thread is starting to annoy me! Therefore I'll also hurl some insults. These are not directed at any particular person. Feel free to use these in other posts when you want to insult someone.

Are you always so stupid or is today a special occasion?
It's hard to get the big picture when you have such a small screen.
I've come across decomposed bodies that are less offensive than you are.
I've seen people like you, but I had to pay admission!
Keep talking, someday you'll say something intelligent!
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Old 06-30-2014, 01:20 AM #15
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Default Re: Members should not be allowed to request that threads be closed, unless good reas

Ooooh! I haven't participated in a dramatic thread recently!

...anyway...

IMO, the idea that an OP is entitled to halt discussion in a thread they started is complete BS. You do not own the threads you create; as long as a post is reasonably relevant to the thread and follows LPF rules, it should be allowed in the thread. If the discussion has gone off the rails and has devolved into drama, that's against LPF rules anyway and needs to be closed.

Say, for example, I posted a thread discussing an LPM that ARG and I built. Discussion ends up turning toward the design, and people question the accuracy of it. Just because because I, the OP, don't like the direction the discussion is going does not mean that I have the right to have the thread closed. That wouldn't be censorship, but it would be really close. Scenarios like that are precisely why people should not have the ability to close their own thread.

Fortunately, in situations like that, it seems like the mods have it under control - I once (a loooooong time ago) requested that a thread I made be closed because I didn't like where the discussion had gone. Dave refused, because it was all relevant and rule-abiding discussion.

LPF is one big, public sandbox. When someone makes a thread, they are drawing a circle in the sand and inviting people to come stand in it and talk to others about a given topic. The OP doesn't own that part of the sandbox, so when five, six, ten, or fifty other people come in and start conversing, the OP has no right to stamp his foot and kick everyone out of the circle because he doesn't like the way they're talking. OP did not pay for the circle. OP does not own the circle. It's up to the moderation team to determine if behavior in the circle follows the rules of the sandbox. If it does, it should be left alone. If not, the crowd should be dispersed and the circle scuffed away.

Just my two cents.

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Old 06-30-2014, 01:26 AM #16
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Default Re: Members should not be allowed to request that threads be closed, unless good reas

Thats a good point Trevor- maybe threads should only be closed if there are large, off topic arguments happening. Or maybe those posts should be deleted, and the users involved should receive a warning.
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