What's your education?

Zathras, thank for the reply. I guess I'll get that piece of paper. I am a little prideful about my academic career, so I'll work on that. Hopefully college will fly by. I have't applied to colleges since all my grades aren't set in stone yet; I talked to the physics department at University of Texas, and they said I could get a scholarship, but we'll see how that turns out. I just think my time could be better spend, but I guess I won't know until I try it. Sucks that the education system isn't on a playing field that's as level as it should be, or as I would like it to be.

Can't count how many times I've seen absolute dunces get hired or promoted completely based on family connections.

Man... Can't wait for that.
So time to try and get connections I guess

Yup. My intolerance for douchbaggery earlier in life led me to burn some connections I really should not have.

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I mean that instead of being judged solely by intelligence, one is judged by the connections they have and the money their parents could spend sending them to some fancy private school. This wouldn't be a problem if one had control over their connections (I know we do to some degree), but nevertheless it creates a situation in which people don't have equal opportunity. I guess you're right: Welcome to life

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Currently doing a 4-year accelerated Bachelor's/Master's in Mechanical Engineering. :thinking::banghead:

It really is sad that nowadays connections and a piece of paper are almost of more value than a good education and a strong ability to apply that education. Probably more than half the Mechanical Engineers I know couldn't tell you the difference between a lathe and a mill, but if their dad knows a guy who has a friend who knows a guy, then they'll get a job they may not be qualified for anyways.

Agreed, I finished school a couple of years ago, and I'm in first year engineering now. Some people in the class are just there because they hear it's good money, well, good for them if they're willing to learn, but as long as they have the bit of paper saying they're an engineer, they'll get a job, even if they really have no clue or pratical experience

I do the same practical stuff as a hobby that 3rd and even 4th year EE students do at university/college, but without the paper, fat chance of getting a job in it, even if you have a bit of talent.

joshshermannn1 said:

IE, I feel the same way
I'm actually still in highschool, I skipped 3 grades ahead in math, 2 in science, and 1 for every other course, due to the fact I skipped in middle school; I have aspirations to skip more, though. My GPA is above 3.5, I don't get an exact number until a week or so. Although I'm in highschool, I still take ECS college classes. I have a hard time finding a reason to continue college; I can't justify that much money and time for a piece of paper. What's the point when I learn more in less time while reading? Does anyone have experience to say if college is actually worth it, even if you know everything the course would teach you? I really like philosophy, and I'm taking a few classes related to it, so I said Humanities. I know it won't make a lot of money, so I'll probably double major with philosophy and cosmology or something similar, so I can pay dem bills, yo. Anyone got any advise for someone still in highschool, probably going to college soon? e.g. Does the college you go to really matter?
EDIT: sorry for the slight derail

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You can get by without a degree, but it usually means a trade jobs, some sort of niche entrepreneurial career if you're already skilled (and lucky), or being willing to keep your standards low (by other peoples' standards). However, if you don't have your ducks in a row already, you're essentially a nobody at this point. All those grades you skipped, those awards, merits or whatever, are not "qualifications" that land you a job or impress people unless you're a kid applying to McDonalds. They're really only relevant for entrance into college.

A lack of at least a bachelor's degree is about the same as not having a high school diploma in the old days. Your resume will literally be tossed into the trash upon arrival. Why? Because there are thousands of other people your age that will have that minimum qualification. It's a minimum qualification for many jobs these days, even if the skills imparted by the degree may matter little.

Don't just choose any major though. This isn't the 1970s when just having "a degree" meant something. A major in library science or gender studies is worth no more than the general-ed courses everyone has to take. Choose a major in something useful. Having a useless degree and a hefty student loan is worse than no degree but no student loan debt. Remember that you cannot discharge that debt in bankruptcy.

Yes, that includes not bothering with majors in something like "philosophy." You can read up and learn about philosophy on your own time; you don't need a degree in it. If your grades are so fantastic, join the Honor Program at your school and take the higher quality courses they offer there. I did that along with my engineering degree and it was a good learning experience without having to dedicate myself to the humanities. You'll have lots of time to learn about interesting topics while also obtaining a degree in something marketable.

Don't get an MBA as a "catch all" degree because you can't decide on something specific. MBAs are generally only useful if you get it as a secondary degree to assist in your primary. Otherwise, it's not really a "major" unless you attend some great school like Harvard. I'd think long and hard about what your end-goal with your education is, if you're going, and stick to it. Choose a major with prospects, but one you can enjoy, or at least tolerate.

Finally, if you're really not cut out for college, don't go! You can learn about great things on your own time, but without paying thousands for the privilege. Sure, it'll be hard on your job prospects, but it's better than being saddled with a loan. Again, don't choose useless degrees just to get one.

Mrcrouse said:

Probably more than half the Mechanical Engineers I know couldn't tell you the difference between a lathe and a mill, but if their dad knows a guy who has a friend who knows a guy, then they'll get a job they may not be qualified for anyways.

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I'm sorry, but what does knowing the distinctions between a lathe and mill have to do with mechanical engineering any more than knowing how to wire up houses has to do with being an electrical engineer, or the ability to perform arithmetic have to do with being a mathematician? In each of those, the former is often not relevant to the latter.

Also, what type of qualifications? Academic? Technician work? Familiarity with certain tools? Work experience? Internships? The specifics are important. Some of those qualifications are more valuable and relevant than others, and often matter less than a recommendation from someone. A big mistake with many graduates is the belief that their academic credentials will carry them through above other candidates. It's not always the case. Hiring a person is more than just the certain qualifications you may think are important.

Hirings through connections are often made because of a trust in the recommending authority to suggest good candidates -- especially among an unknown pool of hires that are only known to be good on the self-created resume. Those hires may also be selected for their teamwork ability, their experience in other companies, their capability to learn, or yes, their connection to people the company knows. Hiring is all about risk: whether the candidate is worth the effort to hire and integrate into an organization. A recommendation/connection can be a powerful thing in that respect.

Things said:

Agreed, I finished school a couple of years ago, and I'm in first year engineering now. Some people in the class are just there because they hear it's good money, well, good for them if they're willing to learn, but as long as they have the bit of paper saying they're an engineer, they'll get a job, even if they really have no clue or practical experience.

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What's wrong with that though? A little known fact is that most graduates seeking jobs -- at any level -- don't really have a clue or practical experience (it's academia after all). If they did, they would've been working already (which is what makes internships valuable). Even with a PhD, you'll learn more the first year of your work career than you did your entire college career -- but be trained well enough to absorb and apply it.

Degrees are not so much about what you learned, but your ability to learn.

A high school diploma shows that you know the most fundamental skills adults ought to know (formerly, how to read). It demonstrates that you have the ability to complete schooling at all.

A bachelor's degree shows you can be trained in a study (and can write).

A master degree shows you can apply knowledge in a research setting.

A PhD shows that you have the ability to perform independent research.

Some people go beyond that, but they're the ones who will start companies after graduating, or go into a career in academia. For those seeking jobs, often the education credentials are there to demonstrate your ability to be molded in to someone productive for a company.

i'm still studying at school, does that count?

Bionic-Badger said:

what does... the ability to perform arithmetic have to do with being a mathematician?

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I understand your point, but I'm pretty sure you you'd make a rather poor mathematician without knowing arithmetic.

Didn't Einstein fail algebra?

InfinitusEquitas said:

Didn't Einstein fail algebra?

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Albert Einstein did not fail mathematics in school, as is commonly believed. Upon being shown a column claiming this fact, Einstein said "I never failed in mathematics... Before I was fifteen I had mastered differential and integral calculus."[59][60] Einstein did however fail his first entrance exam into Federal Polytechnic School in 1895, although at the time he was two years younger than his fellow students and did exceedingly well in mathematics and science on the exam.[61]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_misconceptions

One widely held belief about Einstein is that he failed math as a student. [...] Alas, Einstein's childhood offers history many savory ironies, but this is not one of them. In 1935, a rabbi in Princeton showed him a clipping of the Ripley's column with the headline "Greatest living mathematician failed in mathematics." Einstein laughed. "I never failed in mathematics," he replied, correctly. "Before I was fifteen I had mastered differential and integral calculus." In primary school, he was at the top of his class and "far above the school requirements" in math. By age 12, his sister recalled, "he already had a predilection for solving complicated problems in applied arithmetic," and he decided to see if he could jump ahead by learning geometry and algebra on his own. His parents bought him the textbooks in advance so that he could master them over summer vacation. Not only did he learn the proofs in the books, he also tackled the new theories by trying to prove them on his own. He even came up on his own with a way to prove the Pythagorean theory.

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1936731_1936743_1936758,00.html

Looks like that is just a common myth.

BTW, Currently on course to study computer engineering or electrical engineering (haven't chose yet, but I have to soon) and probably a minor in math and business.

I fucking hate algebra and calculus!

@Bionic-Badger, great advice. But If having a degree is the important part, why is it ones ability to learn, not what one has learned? It seems that if anything in college measures ones ability and competence, it would be their grades, not the fact that they have a degree. Especially since many people who actually finished college are not competent. The correlation between the grades, competence, and jobs is not as it should be if incompetent people are getting jobs. I think this could be due to recommendations, which is why I don't understand why they carry as much weight as they do. They can be a great tool to separate good employees from bad ones, but they are not reliable. Also, whats the point in doing well in a class if that class doesn't pertain to your major? For example, Fiddy doesn't like Calculus, so why does he have to do well in the class if it doesn't matter to his degree? If employers do not care how employees did in college, but only that they finished and have the degree, then why do well in any class besides the ones that teach you about your prospective job? If grades and competence do have a positive correlation, why don't employers look more heavily into grades, rather than degrees? Sorry for the rather sporadic reply, and thanks for reading.