What's happened to LPF?

Communities evolve over time, it’s unavoidable. People who fit in stay. People who do not fit in do not stay. It’s a fact of life. But... we seem to have moved beyond that, somehow. To something more on the offensive.

I’ve noticed that new members are being run off with more frequency (or I’m noticing it more often), because they started their LPF career by asking a question when *GASP* they should have used search. Let’s be fair here – I’d not be around if Kendall (of HTD) hadn’t put up with a few dumb questions regarding my first laser build. Now, I won’t flatter myself and say that the forum would be missing a key member if I had been run off, but I definitely wouldn’t be here. If I had been chased away, some people would probably have less gray hair. Ahem, daguin, c0ldshadow, lasersbee, grenadier, the list goes on...

Take two threads from my early days here for example:

http://laserpointerforums.com/f53/gas-laser-safety-45315.html

In this one, I’ve asked about handling a HeNe laser safely. I even paste a blurb from the FAQ, but I’ve obviously not chased down every bit of reference material out there. The people that answered the thread did so remarkably patiently, and didn’t tell me to use the search engine.

http://laserpointerforums.com/f53/laser-dot-danger-43384.html

In this second one, I did some basic math and thought I might have proven a basic safety tenet wrong. Instead of running me off, people explained that there are more factors to consider and helped to elucidate them right there in that thread. Laser safety was firmly reinforced without the aid of torches and pitchforks.

So, I asked a dumb question. And I posted a thread thinking I might have outsmarted a bunch of people before me. But no one yelled at me to use search, or told me how much I was spamming, or how stupid my threads were. Instead, people took prettymuch the same amount of time to draw some useful information from their own experience and type it in the reply box. Instead of sending me away, they sent me in the right direction with information that I could take and continue learning independently.

And what would have happened had those threads gone in a different direction and I’d been left negative reputation until I faded to oblivion? Well, I’d probably be on LaserCommunity, or worse Youtube, burning things with lasers with no regard for the hobby.

What is gained by being mean to someone who’s posted, asking a dumb question? Well, perhaps a little bit of time is saved by not having to field an answer for them. If they leave, the community has gotten rid of a potential leech.

But what can be gained by being helpful? We cultivate another potentially productive member. We help to ensure that our hobby has a future. Even if the member is just given some search terms and a thread to read to get them started (as opposed to putting the information straight in their thread), it still helps them out. Even if it’s said that they should use search next time. It’s still shown them that this community is a good place to stay and learn about lasers.

If they do turn out to not learn and keep on posting threads asking dumb questions with no regard to trying to find out for themselves, then sure. They probably don’t fit in.

But until then, why not just be kind? We stand to lose much more than we stand to gain by chasing people away who have made the simple mistake of asking a question that we see as stupid.

I believe those who bait new members by being pointlessly cruel deserve the ban – not the member who was baited. Even just nicely telling someone to use search and leaving them a few keywords takes less time than formulating a cruel post. I'm just as guilty of doing this as the next person, but as much as I can I'm trying not to do that anymore.

I know I can’t change the community alone, and I know the community can’t change overnight. But why not try?

Why not hang up the torch and pitchfork in favor of giving new members a little bit of a grace period, a mulligan on their first post? Why not exhibit a little bit of mercy and help a new person out? Why not spend less than sixty seconds helping the future of the hobby? Why not try to remember where you came from?

Why not show a shred of humanity?

-Trevor

Nicely put Trevor.
About the newcomers. Everyone, don't forget you were once noobs as well.

i agree with you trevor. but as the saying goes, old habbits die hard. all the older member including yourself where here when there wern't mods. Remember those days. I think that kind of made us a clique. Obviously we want new members.

I also think part of the what has happened, is that there are so many ready made kits now. before it used to be a forum of innovation. Now a noob just comes, buys a kit and blows town till his diode dies.

michael

I think the years of stupid questions are burning people out. Its hard to have patience when the same simple questions are asked over, and over again for months on end.

How I see it is we need to cultivate the obviously smarter new members in hopes they will take the reins. It does work, but fluctuates over time. Right now there are not that many, last year there were quite a few.

In any event natural selection is always in place. We may lose some, but gain some in the near future.

Speaking personally it tend to do my homework. It makes me mad when some clown comes out of nowhere and demands answers without doing anything. I'm here to help, but I'm not some answer station. Thats why we have search features all over the internet. If I can Google, so can they. If they want to be lazy and bypass the process, then screw them.

ps.... i also think the word troll is thrown around way too loosely.


michael.

I agree with TJ. I don't think it's so much as the attitude of the vet's has changed toward helping people. it's that over the last year, there has been a HUGE influx of 'I WANT 2 BY BURNING LAZOR FOR $5 WHICH IS BEZT??!!!' type people and the exact same questions get asked over and over and over... and people's patience gets worn thin in a hurry.

Tech_Junkie said:

I think the years of stupid questions are burning people out. Its hard to have patience when the same simple questions are asked over, and over again for months on end.

Click to expand...

Idea: New members are linked to a FAQ before their first post?

I agree, it kind of gets old. Why not have a "my laser is broken" forum to keep the S/N ratio down in all the other forums?

Because they'd post in general anyway.

I agree with the FAQ thing.. however.. I think there should be a test on it at the end that you have to pass before your allowed to make a post.. to ensure people actually read it.

Yeah, I feel like I am finally being accepted around here. When I first joined, I asked some stupid questions, and was told I was retarded and should basically go kill myself for not knowing what ag wire to use.

This happened multiple times with a-holes coming I'n left and right saying use the search use the search. Utsfe(Anselm) and he battered me for not searching

I told him and everyone else that I did, and there was nowhere stated or answered my specific question. Nowhere. Then they all still defended themselves saying i should know the answer. I didn't! Just because I don't know the answer to my own question I'm the asshole?

I hate the people who are smarter, more superior, and just god on here.
Ever since I've joined there has been help from a select few people I rely on, and then the rest is badgering from the laser gods. But it just keeps getting worse.

And then there's the people who have never met you, never had a conversation with you, and don't know you at all. But for some reason it is there job to troll every post you make, whine that you have alot of posts, negative rep you every time they get a chance just because they can.

But it's funny, now that my rep is higher than there's, they don't Neg rep me anymore Hahaha.

Some people are pathetic.

I wish this site was all about helping people. And quit the drama, the crying and complaining.

That being said ima do me, and keep
MY laser addiction happily fed

wouldn't it be awesome if noobs couldn't post till they used the search button 3 times lol.

michael.

This kid is prime example. http://laserpointerforums.com/members/gunnishlaser/

In 15 post he bumped numerous thread asking the same thing, even after being repeatedly being told not to, and to make his own thread. He even asked for Rep for nothing.

What this tells me all he did was put "Australia" in the search engine and posted on every post he could find. He didnt look at the dates, even after being told those were old threads he continued to keep doing it. Other people gave him the same advice too.

How do you be nice to someone like that? He ignores all the advice given, and just does it his way, even when proved wrong. Thats not how you lean, sorry. Its obvious he is a moron, and cares less about the forum.

Tech_Junkie said:

I think the years of stupid questions are burning people out. Its hard to have patience when the same simple questions are asked over, and over again for months on end.

How I see it is we need to cultivate the obviously smarter new members in hopes they will take the reins. It does work, but fluctuates over time. Right now there are not that many, last year there were quite a few.

In any event natural selection is always in place. We may lose some, but gain some in the near future.

Speaking personally it tend to do my homework. It makes me mad when some clown comes out of nowhere and demands answers without doing anything. I'm here to help, but I'm not some answer station. Thats why we have search features all over the internet. If I can Google, so can they. If they want to be lazy and bypass the process, then screw them.

Click to expand...

qumefox said:

I agree with TJ. I don't think it's so much as the attitude of the vet's has changed toward helping people. it's that over the last year, there has been a HUGE influx of 'I WANT 2 BY BURNING LAZOR FOR $5 WHICH IS BEZT??!!!' type people and the exact same questions get asked over and over and over... and people's patience gets worn thin in a hurry.

Click to expand...

Both of you make really good points. The main thing that spurred me to make this thread was seeing a member who seemed pretty nice get jumped on for a simple question. I'm not sure they'll be returning. Someone who does not deserve it that gets run off by an overreacting member is kind of a tragedy. I think consequences should follow crap like that. I'd rather not cite the threads in which this has happened. No names and tales, right?

Maybe I just treat those questions a little differently. Each one is an opportunity to:

-Use your experience to name a couple places offhand that you trust.
-Point them in the direction of anselm's index thread (or any other useful thread that comes to mind and can be referenced quickly).
-Give the safety glasses spiel.

And if the new person seems particularly ignorant, just pointing them to that index is more than enough. It takes literally less than a minute to type up something like that. I think in some cases, some people really just don't know where to start or what to even search for. In the case of my two threads I linked above, I had read a lot but still wanted to hear from experienced people.

I dunno. In some ways I've mellowed out a bit. I was definitely very guilty then the whole Arctic thing was assaulting LPF.

I just think we might be keeping our torches and pitchforks a little too close at hand.

EDIT: @above... yeah, that's not what I'm talking about at all.

-Trevor

Tech_Junkie said:

I think the years of stupid questions are burning people out. Its hard to have patience when the same simple questions are asked over, and over again for months on end.

Click to expand...

Years? I'm behaving the same way in the last few weeks and I've only been around a few months. I can't even comprehend the amount of self control most of you have.

I fully agree with you Trevor, it's just not easy seeming the same things posted over and over again. I'm trying to be nice though. There were a buch of people that were nice to me when I started here. Even in my "help me identify this diode thread", even though I had no idea what I had pulled it out of. :na:

I like to think that people helped me because I was trying to do some homework and was confused, rather then me just being lazy and not searching. I also was polite, unlike a simler thead by an engineer that devolved into the funniest flame fest I've seen in awhile.

I've actually chilled out recently. Its funny seeing others freak out though. Now I know what I looked like.

Tech_Junkie said:

I've actually chilled out recently. Its funny seeing others freak out though. Now I know what I looked like.

Click to expand...

Heh... I bet.

Occasionally I just sit back and think to myself, "all I wanted when I joined was a burning laser pointer," and then send Joe New Member in the direction of the resources he wants.

And occasionally I pull out the torch and pitchfork.

-Trevor

Maybe its just me but...
Ever since that crappy WL arctic came out there has been a flood of noobs on the forum asking the most retarded question and not even caring to read the forum rules...

And this works on the nerves of some members here which in their turn react frustraded

Certainly im not one of the most perfect members out here, i do post some crap to
But i certainly wont ask the same stupid question over and over again:evil:

Sooo.... In short words, i blame wicked lasers lol