What if?

Shakenawake said:

another thing, if there are no hierarchies, does that include god? could people do what is right without threat of eternal hellfire too? has religion just been a way to control fearful people all along?

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I thought the movie "Book of Eli" was interesting in that respect. Oldman's character wanted to use religion to enslave and control the people, while the "Group" that Eli needed to deliver the Book/Bible to would do essentially the same thing. It could be debated that the goals were different, but isn't it really the same thing? And once there is order is it still Anarchy?

What about availability of resources? Is Anarchy Lawlessness? Or is the real discussion can a new better world be built out of the ashes of the old?

~ LB

nueces said:

Being upset with the way things are is fine. Humanity obviously has problems. But then it always has. But throwing away the system of money would do nothing but put us back to a system of bartering. Money is a system. An organizational system that works. Bartering is a system too but it entails hauling around large loads of 'stuff' to trade with. Money is so much simpler.

But with money you need a rule of law. To curtail cheaters. And you need a rule of law to stop violent criminals ... of all kinds.

Western civilization has been the best system mankind has come up with so far. It works for the most part. It allows for the greatest freedom and possibility for creativity and 'happiness' for the greatest number of individuals.

Whining and complaining about it because its not some fairytale utopia is the sport of childish fools.

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So you see protesting as a form of complaining and whining?
Because in a sense that is what protests are about... a large group of people complaining about somthing that according to them needs to change.
Does that make it wrong?.... would anything ever have changed if it wasn't for protests?

The system allows for freedom? this is false... freedom is bought with money it is not given to you at birth..
If you were born poor you have no freedom
If you have no money you have no freedom
You are free for aslong as you can afford to be free...

Hislordship said:

So you see protesting as a form of complaining and whining?
Because in a sense that is what protests are about... a large group of people complaining about somthing that according to them needs to change.
Does that make it wrong?.... would anything ever have changed if it wasn't for protests?

The system allows for freedom? this is false... freedom is bought with money it is not given to you at birth..
If you were born poor you have no freedom
If you have no money you have no freedom
You are free for aslong as you can afford to be free...

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Tell that to the millions of immigrants who have come here since this nation's founding and built a prosperous life. From nothing. How do you account for all the people throughout western civilization who have started from zero or near zero and become wealthy and powerful? Bill Gates was a high school dropout.

The sort of system you fantasize about could only be created with a bureaucracy controlling every aspect of every person's life. Because no one would voluntarily participate. Read some history. Its been tried numerous times and it always fails. It fails because you end up with a protected elite lording it over everyone else. Then everyone else goes on strike. Either outright or covertly. Result: System failure.

Freedom and capitalism under a rule of law works. Not perfect but history proves its the best there is. You want perfect? Not gonna happen in this life.

Hislordship said:

So you see protesting as a form of complaining and whining?
Because in a sense that is what protests are about... a large group of people complaining about somthing that according to them needs to change.
Does that make it wrong?.... would anything ever have changed if it wasn't for protests?

The system allows for freedom? this is false... freedom is bought with money it is not given to you at birth..
If you were born poor you have no freedom
If you have no money you have no freedom
You are free for aslong as you can afford to be free...

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True story. You're right.

People have been doing protests here in BR... And many (on the news, tv etc) started complaining about it. Manipulated by the government, they even say that there is no reason to protest. LOL
We pay $1.40 (dollar, around R$3.05 reais, BR money) for a bus when it used to be $0.60 (dollar cents) some years ago. And the government says its for making traffic better, better busses, etc... and we see nothing.
We see a big, very f*cking big stadium being built and no hospitals, poor schools, homeless, children asking for money, and they say that there is no need for protests...

It ends up as "Who have money give the orders", as the government is so focused in the world cup that they don't see all problems we have in our country.

Sorry but I had to blow the steam off...

"We can't host a world cup with hospitals."
- Ronaldo (Soccer player). :wave:

nueces said:

It fails because you end up with a protected elite lording it over everyone else.

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So we do not have that now?
May i remind you of the Bilderberg group... Are those not the ruling protected elite?
Infact the entire Bilderberg consists of only the most powerful people on earth
Who for 2-3 days each year come together on a secret location to discuse what will happen in the world for the next 12 months...

I can show you a interview with a dutch politician who asked questions about the bilderberg group... they told him it is a private meeting so they don't have to tell us anything of what is going on there...
First of all it is not private because the tax payer pays for it.. so we do have the right to know.
Second of all.. i do not believe that up to 300 of the most powerful people on earth come together to play poker all weekend on a secret location guarded bij the CIA israeli mossad and other secret agency's...

And third... if the most powerful people on earth including word leaders come together for a weekend i would like to know what they talk about... since they have teh power to decide what is going to happen everywhere on earth so also what will happen with our lives...

but still... they say nothing.... doesn't that seem just a little bit strange?


So you see we to have a protected ruling elite...

All men are created equal, but I can tell you for certain after half a century of experience, some are more equal than others.

It is a violation of the logan act for U.S. politicians to meet with other politicians and powerful people without permission of the president or congress, so every U.S. politician who does attend bilderberg is committing a felony. not that the president or congress cares, many of them attend, duh. you know they are doing evil, simply because it is secret, good deeds are done in plain sight. Rick Perry has attended, most presidents attended, usually shortly before getting "elected".

I don't agree with everything Alex Jones says or believes, but the man is right about enough things to cause great concern. I sometimes listen to the conservative talk radio. any and every time I have heard a caller mention bilderberg they are hung up on and blown off as conspiracy wackos. don't expect any liberal talk shows to be different.

that's the trick, Americans think we have a two party system, when really they are in cahoots. bilderberg owns all the horses in the race, they don't care who we "elect", they have selected our choices. the joke is on us

I'm sorry, did you just say congress democrats and republicans are working together?
Must be a Colorado I've never heard before.

maybe low level ones really are opposing, they may not be far up the ladder enough to be in on the plan. naturally for the deception to work they must APPEAR to be opposed.

cahoots is what I said: ca·hoots
/kəˈho͞ots/

Noun
Colluding or conspiring together secretly.

Shakenawake said:

they must APPEAR to be opposed.

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Uh huh, and rocks are actually soft until we touch them and they tense up in fear.

Conspiring is pointless if you never act on it. You are the textbook definition of a conspiracy theorist.

So your position is that that no actions take place due to backroom deals in washington?

That there are not some overriding goals common to both politicians from both parties that they would not collude on?

Or that there is no truth at all to any "conspiracy" theories?

Does it make one a conspiracy theorist to draw connections based on related events? (Crime is down, tragedy occurs, spurs on new legislation that would have done nothing had it been in effect, to prevent said tragedy.)

Even 5 years ago, if you asked the average person "do you realize the government is tracking you" you would have been dismissed as a cook.

I strongly recommend everyone listen to Alex Jones, he covers a great deal that the rest of the American media wont touch. If you don't listen to news/talk radio then you can watch him on his Youtube channel: Alex's Official Channel - YouTube
I especially recommend the many documentaries but several are well over two hours long. If you don't have time then at least read some articles on Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind! its one of the best news sites around, you can also listen to the show there or on two channels on Shoutcast 24/7, if you have Winamp installed on your computer then you automatically have the Shoutcast directory and can access about 50,000 stations worldwide. I have had some small difficulties with Winamp since upgrading to Windows 8 but nothing too bad. There are also Shoutcast apps for iOS and Android.

textbook huh. ok. I'll go ahead and let that insult slide

I just like theories, in the scientific sense. a good theory has the best explanation for all known relevant data. the best explanations for the state of the world are not to be found on mainstream news. these are scripted soundbites disguised as news, it amounts to propaganda. the media, aka, 4th branch of government

It takes strong evidence to persuade me. though I don't cherry pick what evidence I listen to. people who really want the truth will follow the evidence, even when they don't like where it goes.

keep living in your world with a benevolent government if you wish, if you're lucky, we're wrong. if not, well, we'll be sure to say "I told you so", often and loudly

and now, it's common knowledge the government spies on us, what's more, they make it unpatriotic to question this. the mantra of the complacent/fooled is "I have nothing to hide"

The diffinition of democracy is the freedom to choose your own dictator...

The whole ''2 party system'' is nothing but a huge lie to keep the people occupied...
This way the people are devided and they will blame and fight eachother over everything that goes wrong...

While in fact at the very top both party's are owned and controlled by the same group of people...
If you really want to know who is in charge then all you got to do is follow the money which will lead you all the way to the top of the corporate world...
Esspecially the banking sector...

Eventually you will find out that most.... if not all political party's and important politicians are being paid by these corporations/banks
Both democrate and republican being paid by the same banks... and the same corporations... and still people do not understand why rich gets richer and poor get poorer...
Still no one understands why banks al always bailed out of trouble and never have to pay anything....

Knowing that your political party's are being financed by banks and corporations should answer all of these questions but you will never know this truth if you do not do your own research,,,

All you need to do to see how corrupt your government is is just do a background search for important politicians and you will see most have had a job in a very very powerful corporation such as Monsanto... who now has ex employess in the american government which automatically explains why GMO(proven to be deadly) and chemicals such as Aspertame(also deadly) are legal...

Do background searches.... and follow the money used to finance political party's
Find out who each politician is and what he or she did before entering politics..
Find out which conections they have...
Look for the hidden agenda behind everything they tell you...
Research the Bilderberg group and you will see that what you were lead to believe is the truth is actually just one big ilusion... a game to keep the masses busy while the real agenda is being carried out in silence by those on top of the corporate world.. on top of the pyramid structure of this world.

Don't get me started on Monsanto. most evil corporation in existence IMO. I think they might actually have been voted this in a poll at one time or another

On the banks thing, remember that the banksters have financed both sides of virtually all major armed conflict in the last few hundred years. I believe it was a rockafeller who said "give me control of a nation's money, and I care not who makes it's laws" or something very similar. and now we have the Federal Reserve, (not part of the government, it's about as federal as federal express) a PRIVATE BANK. Control of the bottomless money pit. they have control, if not of the politicians directly, then at least which politicians get money.

In case anyone is confused... the building the back is the bank. The two guys dueling are the democrats and republicans.