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04-23-2016, 07:27 PM #6673
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Re: LPF's Religion

I'm on the fence regarding that subject (edit: of course, lied but in joking. However I tend to go the everything is subjective for us as human beings, I'd be happy whichever way it really is).

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Last edited by Alaskan; 04-23-2016 at 07:33 PM.

04-23-2016, 07:40 PM #6674
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Pi R Squared
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Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Shakenawake then those individuals should learn that there may be truth outside their understanding and be open minded and critical of evidence, and do their best to become proficient critical thinkers, striving for consistncy and congruence with reality.
Look who's talking. Several times in my lifetime I have experienced or seen something that I can't explain, and science hasn't yet explained them, so I am not too quick to dismiss what others claim to experience or see or photograph or record or take video of. Just because science can't explain it doesn't mean it's not real. I want to know, I want the truth, and I will follow it wherever it leads even if I don't like the looks of where it's going.

Alan
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04-23-2016, 07:58 PM #6675
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Shakenawake
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Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
 Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 Actually, I was thinking the same about you Still pointing out "contradictions" with no context or legitimate literary criticism. Looking at one sentence from one book and another sentence from another book, then providing no explanation of who, when, why, or what writing style this was written in to show it's actually a contradiction. Hardly faith shaking. O well I do enjoy Christian saitre.
hey I at least bring up an array of subjects under the banner of this debate, you're stuck on the absolute truth thing

ok how's this?

Pillars of the Earth

The Pillars of the Earth

"Earth floats freely in space (Job 26:7)

This is one of the few verses on this page that is not obviously wrong – it does indeed say that God “hangeth the earth upon nothing”. Still, this must be weighed against the many verses, including one from this same chapter of this same biblical book, which say that the Earth and the heavens are supported by pillars that shake when God gets angry (Job 9:6, Job 26:11, Psalms 75:3, 1 Samuel 2:8).
If we are to claim that the Bible displays profound scientific accuracy, we cannot just dismiss verses that say things that are obviously scientifically inaccurate. Many apologists strain to detect even the vaguest correspondence between Bible verses and scientific fact, but when a verse from the text says something that is plainly wrong, they avoid having to admit this by immediately consigning it to the status of metaphor or poetic allegory. This is dishonest, and if one wants to make an argument for divine revelation, the same standard must be applied to every biblical verse."

BOO YAH

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Pi R Squared Look who's talking. Several times in my lifetime I have experienced or seen something that I can't explain, and science hasn't yet explained them, so I am not too quick to dismiss what others claim to experience or see or photograph or record or take video of. Just because science can't explain it doesn't mean it's not real. I want to know, I want the truth, and I will follow it wherever it leads even if I don't like the looks of where it's going. Alan
well I've had "experiences that science can't explain" as well, but later had to admit I might not have actually have perceived reality correctly. and no, I'm not talking about being High. our senses are filters, and our mind can constuct fabrications from limited and filtered input from the senses. basically I'm saying that eyewitness testimony can be unrelieable. video and photo can be tampered with as well. ideally, good evidence is reconstuctable or able to be observed all the time

so yeah, I don't dismiss evidence, and there is certainly a group of stuff science can't yet explain, and may never be able to. "look who's talking" implies you don't think I operate in the manner I described. seeing as I do operate that way, I considered for a moment if you had a point, then realized you don't know nearly enough about me, my beliefs, or thought processes to be indignant on the subject. I consider claims before accepting them or not. remember, I used to be a christian and hold the belief in christ as closely as you. it was following the truth where I did not want to go that lead me to where I am today. believe me, the possibilities my woldview has are far more terrifying than when I believed god had everything under control

even so, I suspect we've got far more in common than in difference

so let me ask you, you think the bible is true but also say you follow the truth even when it leads where you do not like. are there any places the bible leads you that you do not like?
__________________
501B BDR-209 16X 405nm 630mW @.52Ag lens
Host by Ehgemus NUBM44 450nm 6.8W @4.5A g lens
Host by Ehgemus M462 462nm 1.5W @1.2A g lens
Dominator NUBM07E 465nm 4.3W @3.5A g lens
L2P Nichi@ NDG4216 515nm 110mW @ .35A
501B by Blord osr@m PL520 520nm 95mW @.3A g lens
PL-E pro from Jetlasers nichi@ NDG7475 520nm 980mW, 730mW w/ 10X BE

Lasermax Genesis sight 532nm 5mW
RPL from Optotronics 532nm 450mW

Spartan from Dragonlasers 589nm 50mW
501B HL63133DG 638nm 210mW @.3A g lens
501B Ocl@ro HL63193MG 638nm 960mW @1.3A g lens

501B by Blord LPC 826 660nm 325mW @?A g lens
PL660 from Laserbtb 660nm 1020mW

LPM
DL matrix and fan transmission gratings

laser powers in sig are about 20 seconds into duty cycle, not peak powers

http://laserpointerforums.com/f39/co...her-94720.html

(I guess I am a vet now)

Last edited by Shakenawake; 04-23-2016 at 08:22 PM.

04-23-2016, 08:25 PM #6676
 Class 3R Laser Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois Posts: 2,062 Rep Power: 22797
TheDukeAnumber1
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Re: LPF's Religion

You've been strumming the same cord. Biblical criticisms found by unreasonable logic, or without literary support to view it as a contradiction. Again you provide no explanation of who, when, why, or what writing style this was written in to show it's actually a contradiction

https://www.biblegateway.com/resourc.../Pillars-Earth

"Some scholars insist that these references must mean that the Hebrews conceived of a world supported by literal pillars. A more general sense of “rocky foundations” is more probable."

Also wow, referencing flat earthers.
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“Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence."
http://laserpointerforums.com/donations.htm
“The end of life is not to be happy, nor to achieve pleasure and avoid pain, but to do the will of God, come what may.”—Martin Luther King

Last edited by TheDukeAnumber1; 04-23-2016 at 08:26 PM.

04-23-2016, 08:31 PM #6677
 Class 3B Laser Join Date: May 2013 Location: Snohomish County Washington, US Posts: 3,798 Rep Power: 93026
Pi R Squared
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Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Shakenawake well I've had "experiences that science can't explain" as well, but later had to admit I might not have actually have perceived reality correctly. and no, I'm not talking about being High. our senses are filters, and our mind can constuct fabrications from limited and filtered input from the senses. basically I'm saying that eyewitness testimony can be unrelieable. video and photo can be tampered with as well. ideally, good evidence is reconstuctable or able to be observed all the time
If you were not under the influence of drugs or alcohol or very ill at the time then you are denying reality because you can't handle the truth. Good evidence is not necessarily reconstructable or able to be observed all the time, some things don't happen all the time.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Shakenawake so yeah, I don't dismiss evidence, and there is certainly a group of stuff science can't yet explain, and may never be able to. I suspect we've got more in common than in difference so let me ask you, you think the bible is true but also say you follow the truth even when it leads where you do not like. are there any places the bible leads you that you do not like?
Yes, I don't have time to comment more, I will be busy the rest of today and won't be online for a few hours, I might say more tonight but I don't have the time or energy to write a book.

Alan
__________________
Keychain 650nm <5mW
Quartet 4-in-1 630-680nm <1mW

AtlasNova 635nm <5mW
MillionAccessories 532nm <5mW broken
M462 462nm one of a kind (in progress)
PLTB450B 450nm 1913mW G2 lens
PL520 520nm 82mW acrylic lens
S06J 12X 405nm 590mW G2 lens
C6 M140 445nm 1.5W 3 element lens
9mm 445nm with G2 lens in a stainless steel host
Radiant Electronics X4 3.7W Laser Power Meter

___________________________________________
The light that shines twice as bright burns half as long.

04-23-2016, 08:33 PM #6678
 Class 3R Laser Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,715 Rep Power: 34654
Shakenawake
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Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
 Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 You've been strumming the same cord. Biblical criticisms found by unreasonable logic, or without literary support to view it as a contradiction. Again you provide no explanation of who, when, why, or what writing style this was written in to show it's actually a contradiction https://www.biblegateway.com/resourc.../Pillars-Earth "Some scholars insist that these references must mean that the Hebrews conceived of a world supported by literal pillars. A more general sense of “rocky foundations” is more probable." Also wow, referencing flat earthers.
I am unsuprised the irony is lost on you
__________________
501B BDR-209 16X 405nm 630mW @.52Ag lens
Host by Ehgemus NUBM44 450nm 6.8W @4.5A g lens
Host by Ehgemus M462 462nm 1.5W @1.2A g lens
Dominator NUBM07E 465nm 4.3W @3.5A g lens
L2P Nichi@ NDG4216 515nm 110mW @ .35A
501B by Blord osr@m PL520 520nm 95mW @.3A g lens
PL-E pro from Jetlasers nichi@ NDG7475 520nm 980mW, 730mW w/ 10X BE

Lasermax Genesis sight 532nm 5mW
RPL from Optotronics 532nm 450mW

Spartan from Dragonlasers 589nm 50mW
501B HL63133DG 638nm 210mW @.3A g lens
501B Ocl@ro HL63193MG 638nm 960mW @1.3A g lens

501B by Blord LPC 826 660nm 325mW @?A g lens
PL660 from Laserbtb 660nm 1020mW

LPM
DL matrix and fan transmission gratings

laser powers in sig are about 20 seconds into duty cycle, not peak powers

http://laserpointerforums.com/f39/co...her-94720.html

(I guess I am a vet now)

04-23-2016, 08:36 PM #6679
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TheDukeAnumber1
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Re: LPF's Religion

You are doing a disservice then to your subjective superior morals buy not explaining it and letting your fellow human live in ignorance.
__________________
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“The end of life is not to be happy, nor to achieve pleasure and avoid pain, but to do the will of God, come what may.”—Martin Luther King

04-23-2016, 08:46 PM #6680
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Shakenawake
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Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Pi R Squared If you were not under the influence of drugs or alcohol or very ill at the time then you are denying reality because you can't handle the truth. Good evidence is not necessarily reconstructable or able to be observed all the time, some things don't happen all the time. Yes, I don't have time to comment more, I will be busy the rest of today and won't be online for a few hours, I might say more tonight but I don't have the time or energy to write a book. Alan
I look forward to what you have to say. If I were to venture a guess, it's something about hell. maybe you have friends or family who will be going there. can you enjoy an eternity in paradise with the knowledge that they are suffering immensly? will that put a damper on an otherwise perfect experience? do you suspect god will cause you to forget these people?

also, there are other causes for our senses not to percieve reality correctly, and our brain can recall it incorrectly. ever played telephone? you know our ears can not hear all frequencies. You CERTAINLY know our eyes do not percieve all wavelengths. we need special tools to detect radiation. so yes I'm free to question myself and my experiences without denying reality. there are many components to consider. I should have said, "Ideally evidence" instead of "ideally good evidence" granted

Quote:
 Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 You are doing a disservice then to your subjective superior morals buy not explaining it and letting your fellow human live in ignorance.
good to see you can dish it out too. you'd be more justified with this response if we had not already engaged in exchanges already, nothing seems to sink in, disincentivizing me to try to render further intellectual assistance. my time is finite, and I could do greater good elsewhere

but sure, I'll spell it out. do you not think their biblical arguements for their flat earth beliefs and refutation of Job 26:7 are well reasoned?

you do know that many believers in the past formerly opposed heliocentric theory, plate techtonics, spherical earth, evolution, really any scientific theory that doesnt seem to align with the bible. you could make a biblical arguement against any of these theories and support them with the text. why do you suppose these bible believers are wrong about the earth being flat based on their biblical arguements, but not about evolution? that biblical arguement they got right? where are the flaws in their biblical arguement? if the bible is true, then you dont need to take photos from nasa into consideration. so, can you justify to me, using the bible, that the earth is a sphere revolving around the sun and not as the flat earthers depict? you're sure that any verse seeming to contradict this is metaphor or poetic liscence or something? in EVERY instance?

I'm slightly insulted by your insinuation that all my posts here amount to flawed biblical contradictions. I talk about way more than those. If you've got the energy, you can go back through the thread and see what percentage of my posts relate to a bible contradiction only, and what percentage of your posts relate to the objective truth thing. then we'll have some data to determine who is more repetetive
__________________
501B BDR-209 16X 405nm 630mW @.52Ag lens
Host by Ehgemus NUBM44 450nm 6.8W @4.5A g lens
Host by Ehgemus M462 462nm 1.5W @1.2A g lens
Dominator NUBM07E 465nm 4.3W @3.5A g lens
L2P Nichi@ NDG4216 515nm 110mW @ .35A
501B by Blord osr@m PL520 520nm 95mW @.3A g lens
PL-E pro from Jetlasers nichi@ NDG7475 520nm 980mW, 730mW w/ 10X BE

Lasermax Genesis sight 532nm 5mW
RPL from Optotronics 532nm 450mW

Spartan from Dragonlasers 589nm 50mW
501B HL63133DG 638nm 210mW @.3A g lens
501B Ocl@ro HL63193MG 638nm 960mW @1.3A g lens

501B by Blord LPC 826 660nm 325mW @?A g lens
PL660 from Laserbtb 660nm 1020mW

LPM
DL matrix and fan transmission gratings

laser powers in sig are about 20 seconds into duty cycle, not peak powers

http://laserpointerforums.com/f39/co...her-94720.html

(I guess I am a vet now)

Last edited by Shakenawake; 04-23-2016 at 09:14 PM.

04-23-2016, 09:45 PM #6681
 Class 1 Laser Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 96 Rep Power: 2577
Rokakku
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Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Pi R Squared Look who's talking. Several times in my lifetime I have experienced or seen something that I can't explain, and science hasn't yet explained them, so I am not too quick to dismiss what others claim to experience or see or photograph or record or take video of. Just because science can't explain it doesn't mean it's not real. I want to know, I want the truth, and I will follow it wherever it leads even if I don't like the looks of where it's going. Alan
What did you experience? I once had a inexplicable experience. I was in a house alone. Lots of banging started happening upstairs, like really loud like someone stomping through. In an empty house. No idea what it was, no pipes or anything in the house at the time. Very creepy. I'm as skeptic as they come but sometimes you can't explain everything. But people fear what they don't understand and create boogiemen.
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Last edited by Rokakku; 04-23-2016 at 09:45 PM.

04-23-2016, 10:09 PM #6682
 Class 3R Laser Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,715 Rep Power: 34654
Shakenawake
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Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Rokakku What did you experience? I once had a inexplicable experience. I was in a house alone. Lots of banging started happening upstairs, like really loud like someone stomping through. In an empty house. No idea what it was, no pipes or anything in the house at the time. Very creepy. I'm as skeptic as they come but sometimes you can't explain everything. But people fear what they don't understand and create boogiemen.
I'll bet Pi R has better ones.

I actually had a few crazy ones I can't explain.

As a youth, I got into some wot water, and as a sort of alternate sentence I went to a two month backpacking program. at this time I was still a christian though there may have been seeds of doubt. (the process of deconversion is not instant, it's very much a process, at least for me and many others. I'm sure there's an example out there somewhere of an individual who in a single instant stopped believing in god but I'm thinking more often it's more of a sequential realization)

anyway one time we were filling water bottles in a creek that was in a small valley. the top of the hill was a flat ground with no cover for quite some distance, but the hillside on the way up to the hill top was densly forested. something began running up the hill. I wasnt the first to see them, but someone else said someone was running up the hill. we all gave chase and heard them, but due to the foilage I never saw them clearly. but something was being chased up the hill. the fastest of us were only seconds behind them. the being crested the ridge, we all lost line of sight, but the hill top was flat with no cover for a long distance. longer than any distance one could cover in the seconds it took for the first of us to crest the ridge. but when they did, there was no one to be seen, and everyone was accounted for. it was some crazy skinwalker crap, I'm not sure what happened.

the same backpacking program, I'm setting out my sleeping bag for the night after an exhausing day of hiking. I was tired on the verge of delerium. in my peripheral, a whiteish something moved by a tree and disappeared, like 6 feet from me. I should say floated, it did not interact with the ground or make a sound. I was about to write it off as tired hallucination until the kid next to me said holy **** did you just see that and described the thing I sorta saw. not sure what that was. A ghost? IDK. no idea. pretty ******* scary though

as a side note, this program did me, and a lot of other kids, a lot of good. unfortunately a while back one kid died while out there from a bad infection. I don't know the whole story, only what I read in the news. the program was shut down which is a shame. it was far better for kids and better helped correct their course than juvenile hall, which is basically like jail and IMO only serves to prep kids for life in the prison industrial complex. people die in prison all the time and they don't shut those down. It's hard to imagine an infection going unnoticed and becoming fatal to me. the staff on my team were very aware that they were responsible for our health and went to great lengths to ensure we were in a healthy condition. even if they thought the kid was faking it to escape being there, since it was their ass on the line if he really was sick I see no reason they wouldn't side with caution and extract him. very sad but much worse happens in the big house
__________________
501B BDR-209 16X 405nm 630mW @.52Ag lens
Host by Ehgemus NUBM44 450nm 6.8W @4.5A g lens
Host by Ehgemus M462 462nm 1.5W @1.2A g lens
Dominator NUBM07E 465nm 4.3W @3.5A g lens
L2P Nichi@ NDG4216 515nm 110mW @ .35A
501B by Blord osr@m PL520 520nm 95mW @.3A g lens
PL-E pro from Jetlasers nichi@ NDG7475 520nm 980mW, 730mW w/ 10X BE

Lasermax Genesis sight 532nm 5mW
RPL from Optotronics 532nm 450mW

Spartan from Dragonlasers 589nm 50mW
501B HL63133DG 638nm 210mW @.3A g lens
501B Ocl@ro HL63193MG 638nm 960mW @1.3A g lens

501B by Blord LPC 826 660nm 325mW @?A g lens
PL660 from Laserbtb 660nm 1020mW

LPM
DL matrix and fan transmission gratings

laser powers in sig are about 20 seconds into duty cycle, not peak powers

http://laserpointerforums.com/f39/co...her-94720.html

(I guess I am a vet now)

Last edited by Shakenawake; 04-23-2016 at 10:26 PM.

04-23-2016, 10:31 PM #6683
 Class 1 Laser Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 96 Rep Power: 2577
Rokakku
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Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Shakenawake I'll bet Pi R has better ones. I actually had a few crazy ones I can't explain. As a youth, I got into some wot water, and as a sort of alternate sentence I went to a two month backpacking program. at this time I was still a christian though there may have been seeds of doubt. (the process of deconversion is not instant, it's very much a process, at least for me and many others. I'm sure there's an example out there somewhere of an individual who in a single instant stopped believing in god but I'm thinking more often it's more of a sequential realization) anyway one time we were filling water bottles in a creek that was in a small valley. the top of the hill was a flat ground with no cover for quite some distance, but the hillside on the way up to the hill top was densly forested. something began running up the hill. I wasnt the first to see them, but someone else said someone was running up the hill. we all gave chase and heard them, but due to the foilage I never saw them clearly. but something was being chased up the hill. the fastest of us were only seconds behind them. the being crested the ridge, we all lost line of sight, but the hill top was flat with no cover for a long distance. longer than any distance one could cover in the seconds it took for the first of us to crest the ridge. but when they did, there was no one to be seen, and everyone was accounted for. it was some crazy skinwalker crap, I'm not sure what happened. the same backpacking program, I'm setting out my sleeping bag for the night after an exhausing day of hiking. I was tired on the verge of delerium. in my peripheral, a whiteish something moved by a tree and disappeared, like 6 feet from me. I should say floated, it did not interact with the ground or make a sound. I was about to write it off as tired hallucination until the kid next to me said holy **** did you just see that and described the thing I sorta saw. not sure what that was. A ghost? IDK. no idea. pretty ******* scary though as a side note, this program did me, and a lot of other kids, a lot of good. unfortunately a while back one kid died while out there from a bad infection. I don't know the whole story, only what I read in the news. the program was shut down which is a shame. it was far better for kids and better helped correct their course than juvenile hall, which is basically like jail and IMO only serves to prep kids for life in the prison industrial complex. people die in prison all the time and they don't shut those down. It's hard to imagine an infection going unnoticed and becoming fatal to me. the staff on my team were very aware that they were responsible for our health and went to great lengths to ensure we were in a healthy condition. even if they thought the kid was faking it to escape being there, since it was their ass on the line if he really was sick I see no reason they wouldn't side with caution and extract him. very sad but much worse happens in the big house
That's eerie. I've read about skincrawlers, though I thought they usually are watching people not chasing things. Yeah my experience is pretty mundane but it's the only time in all my years something that odd has happened. Hopefully one day I encounter a UFO.

The first time I suffered from sleep paralysis I was royally spooked! However googling what happened the next day cleared it up for me with how common it is.
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04-25-2016, 04:39 AM #6684
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RB astro
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Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Shakenawake wow I never expected you to be able to dig up a defense of that point, I honestly wouldnt expect a typical believer to give it much thought. I think it's totally bogus, but hey. I should've expected you would be atypical, at least you are thinking about them.
My decision to become a Born Again Christian wasn't made lightly.
There were many, many questions I still had in my mind as I was growing up about God, Jesus and the Bible, even though I was born into the Greek Orthodox Church.
Before I could accept the Bible as absolute truth, I had to find out for myself.
And you shall seek me, and find me, when you shall search for me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29:13
I don't believe people are Christian just because they're born into a denomination.
Unless a person has a life changing, one on one, 'born again' experience with Jesus, the Word of God (Bible) will always hold some level of ambiguity and room to doubt of it's absolute accuracy.
This is where you find variations and disagreement on matters concerning doctrine amongst different Christian churches.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Shakenawake you say the bible revealed that the earth hung in space, but it also says in other places that it is on pillars. so which is it?
This is where 'context' can inhibit or enhance our ability to understand the meaning of the ancient languages such as Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic.
But just like a Shakespearian classic, which requires a level of understanding of the English language structure, if you read it out of context, so too the Bible, where taking a verse out of context would lead an individual to conclude a very different meaning of the text.
The verse you're referring to is actually Hannah's Prayer of Thanksgiving in 1 Samual 2:1-10:

1 And Hannah prayed, and said, My heart rejoices in the LORD, my horn is exalted in the LORD: my mouth is enlarged over my enemies; because I rejoice in your salvation.
2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside you: neither is there any rock like our God.
3 Talk no more so exceeding proudly; let not arrogance come out of your mouth: for the LORD is a God of knowledge, and by him actions are weighed.
4 The bows of the mighty men are broken, and they that stumbled are girded with strength.
5 They that were full have hired out themselves for bread; and they that were hungry ceased: so that the barren has born seven; and she that has many children is waxed feeble.
6 The LORD kills, and makes alive: he brings down to the grave, and brings up.
7 The LORD makes poor, and makes rich: he brings low, and lifts up.
8 He raises up the poor out of the dust, and lifts up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD's, and he has set the world on them.
9 He will keep the feet of his saints, and the wicked shall be silent in darkness; for by strength shall no man prevail.
10 The adversaries of the LORD shall be broken to pieces; out of heaven shall he thunder on them: the LORD shall judge the ends of the earth; and he shall give strength to his king, and exalt the horn of his anointed.

It's simply saying in an eloquent way, that the Lord guides and strengthens those that love Him and destroys the wicked.
She is saying God created everyone and everything and it is His prerogative to do what He pleases with both the wicked and the righteous.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Shakenawake the bible also says you can get solid colored animals to become spotted and striped by mating them in front of branches. have you confirmed this "biblical biology lesson" (genesis 30:37-39)
The Bible is documenting what Jacob did, not what God says people can do to get the same 'spotted animal' outcomes.
These chapters document how Jacob was taken advantage of his father in law Laban, Jacob wanted Laban's daughter Rachel but ended up with both Leah and Rachel.
Jacob made a deal with Laban that he will leave his servitude and for his payment he'd like just to take the newborn 'spotted' cattle/sheep/goats from Laban's heard.

Laban agreed but to minimise his loss Laban took away all the spotted heards leaving Jacob only the full coloured heard to breed his 'spoil' from.
Jacob used his cunningness to breed up his heard, separating the stronger ones from the weak and allocating the weak to Laban's count.
He used this method as a way of trying to produce more spotted animals for his gain, as he knew he was being taken advantage of by Laban.
This doesn't mean it's a method of genetically influencing the heard but rather that God still honoured Jacob's efforts to influence the outcome because Laban was un-just towards Jacob.

Jacob in the following chapter attributes his successes to God, not to his own ingenuity:

Genesis 31:4 So Jacob sent and called Rachel and Leah to the field, to his flock, 5 and said to them, “I see your father’s countenance, that it is not favorable toward me as before; but the God of my father has been with me.
6 And you know that with all my might I have served your father.
7 Yet your father has deceived me and changed my wages ten times, but God did not allow him to hurt me.
8 If he said thus: ‘The speckled shall be your wages,’ then all the flocks bore speckled. And if he said thus: ‘The streaked shall be your wages,’ then all the flocks bore streaked. 9 So God has taken away the livestock of your father and given them to me.
10 “And it happened, at the time when the flocks conceived, that I lifted my eyes and saw in a dream, and behold, the rams which leaped upon the flocks were streaked, speckled, and gray-spotted.
11 Then the Angel of God spoke to me in a dream, saying, ‘Jacob.’ And I said, ‘Here I am.’
12 And He said, ‘Lift your eyes now and see, all the rams which leap on the flocks are streaked, speckled, and gray-spotted; for I have seen all that Laban is doing to you.
13 I am the God of Bethel, where you anointed the pillar and where you made a vow to Me. Now arise, get out of this land, and return to the land of your family.’”

Unfortunately it's human nature to have faith but also to take matters into our own hands to help God along.
God still honours the 'just' though, regardless of our feeble efforts to help things along.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Shakenawake I've heard it argued that even if the bible and religion in general isnt true that it serves a purpose by providing a sense of community and purpose to people, and makes them feel good. well, so do placebos, and you dont hear them being recommended. I personally do not see the utility in believing anything that is not evidently true.
I agree and I too think it's like being given a placebo when Christian mainstream denominations don't teach the whole council of God, the whole Word of God.
That's why I said earlier that people need to prove the Word of God for themselves, not just go with the touchy-feely good experience the worldly churches give.
Same with religions in general, they do serve as placebos throughout life, until death comes and people are 'Shaken-Awakened' to the reality that they are in Hell.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Shakenawake one example would be heliocentric theory, where the orbits were at one time depicted as circular, before being corrected to being elliptical. the circular orbit model was still better than a geocetric theory model.
It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings is to search out a matter. Proverbs 25:2

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Shakenawake but by and large the genetic tree of life matched the morphological one. what an unbelievable coinky-dink if all organisms are seperately created and unrelated
Simply means God is very efficient and has used the available physical elements and 'blueprints' in His creation to create the vast variety of species with similarities, yet not allowing for natural cross breeding of different species of animal.
So, we share similarities with apes.
And?
A biplane and a F-16 Tomcat are both aerodynamic for a reason.
And they both belong to the aero-space family tree.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Shakenawake boy satan is insideous, he can even alter genomes which our bodies need to replace damaged cells in such a way as to make us seem related to all other life. and we couldnt even know about this lie of his until we could sequence genomes, so he predicted the future so he could trick us later. what a prankster.
You have no idea.
Put On the Whole Armor of God
Ephesians: 10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

RB

__________________
Andrew (RB)

─────────────────────────────────☀
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him
should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world,

but that the world through Him might be saved.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned;
but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
(John 3:16-21)
─────────────────────────────────☀
If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from
the dead, you will be saved.
For it is with your heart that you believe unto righteousness
and it is with your mouth that you confess
are saved.
(Romans 10:9-10)
─────────────────────────────────☀

Last edited by RB astro; 04-25-2016 at 04:49 AM.

04-25-2016, 06:03 AM #6685
 Class 3R Laser Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,715 Rep Power: 34654
Shakenawake
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Re: LPF's Religion

"Simply means God is very efficient and has used the available physical elements and 'blueprints' in His creation to create the vast variety of species with similarities, yet not allowing for natural cross breeding of different species of animal."

no you are wrong. genetics are also a record. there are tracers like parts of the genome inserted by retroviruses and also redundant DNA. this is indicative of evolution. why would god allow redundant copies of DNA that do nothing to code for his perfect creation? it doesnt make sense. also, some species that are seperate can interbreed. an example is horses and donkeys. they are still closely related enough to produce offspring but their offspring are sterile. Here you go, this will help you understand:

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Last edited by Shakenawake; 04-25-2016 at 06:21 AM.

04-25-2016, 06:11 AM #6686
 Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Sydney, Australia (ɹǝpunuʍop) Posts: 1,758 Rep Power: 817640
RB astro
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Sydney, Australia (ɹǝpunuʍop)
Posts: 1,758
Rep Power: 817640
Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Shakenawake also, some species that are seperate can interbreed. an example is horses and donkeys. they are still closely related enough to produce offspring but their offspring are sterile. Here you go, this will help you understand:
Horse and donkey are closely related and I consider them within the same species.
I'm talking about different 'kinds' of species.
e.g Dog and cat.

btw, interesting that the horse/donkey offspring is sterile, wouldn't you agree?

I'll watch the vid soon, when I get a chance.

__________________
Andrew (RB)

─────────────────────────────────☀
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him
should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world,

but that the world through Him might be saved.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned;
but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
(John 3:16-21)
─────────────────────────────────☀
If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from
the dead, you will be saved.
For it is with your heart that you believe unto righteousness
and it is with your mouth that you confess
are saved.
(Romans 10:9-10)
─────────────────────────────────☀

04-25-2016, 06:33 AM #6687
 Class 3R Laser Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Southern Colorado, USA Posts: 1,245 Rep Power: 282405
Rivem
Class 3R Laser

Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,245
Rep Power: 282405
Re: LPF's Religion

Why do people like to argue about religion so much? There's only a miniscule chance that you could ever change somebody else's mind on the matter, and arguing about it online instead of face-to-face between friends decreases that chance even more. Honestly a waste of time to me. Just yelling at a wall in both directions.

What others' religions mean to me are only moral foundations. Religion and science are not necessarily mutually exclusive. They don't have to overlap either. Using science as religion is not appropriate in the sense of science, and using religious teachings as scientific fact isn't really the point.

We should all just get along and agree to disagree but still be open to at least learn what others think without criticizing them.

Just my opinion. Threads like this just have too much of a tendency to become toxic.

If we're still saying religious alignments, I was born, raised, and confirmed Catholic, but I lean a bit too agnostic to consider myself 100% Catholic.
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04-25-2016, 06:57 AM #6688
 Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Sydney, Australia (ɹǝpunuʍop) Posts: 1,758 Rep Power: 817640
RB astro
Super Moderator

Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Sydney, Australia (ɹǝpunuʍop)
Posts: 1,758
Rep Power: 817640
Re: LPF's Religion

ShakenA, Teej & I are good mates.
Aren't we fellas?

__________________
Andrew (RB)

─────────────────────────────────☀
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him
should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world,

but that the world through Him might be saved.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned;
but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
(John 3:16-21)
─────────────────────────────────☀
If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from
the dead, you will be saved.
For it is with your heart that you believe unto righteousness
and it is with your mouth that you confess
are saved.
(Romans 10:9-10)
─────────────────────────────────☀

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