Old 07-14-2013, 07:29 PM #17
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Default Re: George Zimmerman Innocent

Any additional charges that come up will be a result of evidence regarding "civil rights" gathered during an investigation that started long before the not guilty verdict came out.

It seems like a case brought against him by the Federal government would relate to racial profiling... which, in this case, definitely needs to be examined in my opinion.

I don't think the government is overstepping any boundary here.

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Old 07-14-2013, 08:46 PM #18
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Default Re: George Zimmerman Innocent

Is profiling based on behavior wrong?

Oh hey, that nice guy with a hoodie up going from backyard to backyard must just be checking that the back doors are locked for the safety of the occupants...

The fact of the matter is, if Zimmerman profiled it was based on on behavior not race.
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Old 07-14-2013, 08:49 PM #19
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Default Re: George Zimmerman Innocent

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Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
The fact of the matter is, if Zimmerman profiled it was based on on behavior not race.
Do you have evidence supporting that?

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Old 07-14-2013, 08:58 PM #20
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Default Re: George Zimmerman Innocent

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Do you have evidence supporting that?

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Transcript of George Zimmerman's Call to the Police

Note... he didn't mention the race at all, except in making a description.

But hey, the "Man Kills Assailant" line doesn't get ratings.

The "White Vigilante With a Gun Kills Innocent Black Boy" does.

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Old 07-14-2013, 09:12 PM #21
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Default Re: George Zimmerman Innocent

Him not directly saying "hey, this guy is black so he's been breaking into houses" does not constitute evidence against racial profiling. That is precisely why there is an investigation.

Keep in mind that many literacy tests targeted against black voters didn't directly mention race, either.

Just because race is not mentioned does not mean it is not in play, and does not mean that Zimmerman's mindset should not be put under scrutiny.

To people who were not directly involved in the investigation (both of us included), any claim made is purely speculation, and should not be preceded by the phrase "the fact of the matter is..."

For record, I'm not questioning the verdict; the defense cast reasonable doubt on the evidence presented by the prosecution and the jury decided accordingly.

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Old 07-14-2013, 09:27 PM #22
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Default Re: George Zimmerman Innocent

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Just because race is not mentioned does not mean it is not in play, and does not mean that Zimmerman's mindset should not be put under scrutiny.
Even if Zimmerman profiled based on race as a factor, doing so for the purposes of following someone is not illegal. For a LEO to act on racial profiling alone, that would be illegal.

So uhm, law enforcement should be involved with reference to what people think?

How would that work exactly? If suddenly you can be a criminal (or more criminal) based on what you think alone?

Would you toss out the 5th amendment, put Zimmerman on the stand, and ask him why he followed Martin, and what his motivations were?

Would you trust him to be honest about it, or would you strap on a lie detector just to be sure?

Would you show him violent images, images on black people, images of white people, at a rate too fast to process consciously, and watch his response in order to determine whether he is racist?

What would be the investigative process?

Or would you focus on the actual known facts of the case. Those which can be within reason supported by evidence?

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Old 07-14-2013, 09:41 PM #23
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Default Re: George Zimmerman Innocent

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Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
Even if Zimmerman profiled based on race as a factor, doing so for the purposes of following someone is not illegal. For a LEO to act on racial profiling alone, that would be illegal.

So uhm, law enforcement should be involved with reference to what people think?
I should have said "motivations" rather than "mindset." You know exactly what I mean. I don't appreciate you insinuating that I'm advocating the "thought police."

Though, now that you say it... should a murder being premeditated come into play in a trial? The planning of the murder all goes on in someone's head - does upgrading a manslaughter charge to a murder charge constitute "thought policing?" Just curious as to where you draw the line with regards to the "thought police."

...anyhow, do you happen to recall what happened because Zimmerman chose to follow Martin, whether or not that decision was made based on race? The death of Martin as a consequence of potential racial profiling is what the DOJ is being pressured to investigate.

I think it's worth looking into, and seeing if there's any evidence to make a case. You don't, and that's cool too. That's why opinions exist.

I'll unsubscribe and let the circlejerk continue in peace; as interesting as this debate is, I unfortunately don't have time for it right now.

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Old 07-14-2013, 10:00 PM #24
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Default Re: George Zimmerman Innocent

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Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
Though, now that you say it... should a murder being premeditated come into play in a trial? The planning of the murder all goes on in someone's head - does upgrading a manslaughter charge to a murder charge constitute "thought policing?" Just curious as to where you draw the line with regards to the "thought police."
That determination is usually based on evidence of prior planning to commit the murder, or to deal with the body/evidence after the fact.

For example, did the defendant plan when, where, and how to commit the crime?

Quote:
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...anyhow, do you happen to recall what happened because Zimmerman chose to follow Martin, whether or not that decision was made based on race? The death of Martin as a consequence of potential racial profiling is what the DOJ is being pressured to investigate.

I think it's worth looking into, and seeing if there's any evidence to make a case. You don't, and that's cool too. That's why opinions exist.
Based on the outcome of the case, what happened is that the prosecution could not prove beyond a reasonable doubt, that Zimmerman followed Martin with the intent to do any harm to Martin.

What's being overlooked consistently, is that it's not illegal for one person to follow another.

Creepy? Weird? Unpleasant? Yes.

Illegal? No.

Regardless of the motivation, and whether it is in whole, or in part, based on race.

That somebody is following you is not a legal justification to run up ahead, hide, and then jump that person.

That's assault, and it is illegal.

My opinion is this case should never have existed in the first place.
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Old 07-15-2013, 09:14 PM #25
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Default Re: George Zimmerman Innocent

Just a quick note, this detail seems to get overlooked A LOT...

Trayvon Martin was not a 5', 100lb 12 year old kid.

He was 17, 5'11", and 158 pounds.
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