Learn to use the multiquote and the edit buttons

aryntha said:

I am a pilot, and for the first time just this summer, I was "tracked" at a low altitude by a cheap green. (Over Denver ~ 7500ft MSL. (~1800ft AGL) near DIA/KDEN) I was in Class Bravo with a strict heading given by control, so I couldn't do much to avoid it.

While it was -very- unnerving, I pretty much just concentrated on instruments until I was out of his (Rather unsteady at that distance) range.

I thought about posting it on here, but I'm not really one to kick up drama, and while it was curious, it didn't cause much trouble. The beam was so diffuse at that point it was really little more than a confusion/orientation/distraction issue than an optical issue.

That said, from my point of view:

-If I saw a laser being shined into the sky at a distance, I wouldn't really care. Is that just because I'm an LPF member? ... maybe. None of the other pilots I hang around, I believe, would report a beam seen 10, 30, 50 miles away. We see lots of things at night. Most would go "oh look. A laser."

-I don't want to diminish the effect at altitude, as after that green (It DOES light up the entire cockpit, even if monentarily, and when you're dark-adjusted, even a not-so-amazingly-intense green light can blow that all to hell.) I could see myself getting dizzy from the shaky movement. Imagine you're flying at night, concentrating on navaids and what control is trying to tell you (sometimes there are a lot of other planes in the area) and suddenly a disco ball drops from your cockpit and the small space turns into a mini rave. That's kind of what it's like. Was I at risk of collision? No. Vectoring into another aircraft's path due to confusion? Could happen. Didn't.

-The above stated, I'm more worried about this kind of thing on approach and landing. Say, from a field near the airport, or a nearby hotel. That.. would be bad. Really bad. When I'm coming in on final and I'm 500 AGL, some joker with a PGL picking "low hanging fruit" to "see what happens" is probably the one scenario I hope I never encounter. The last thing you need at that moment is to get pegged (even temporarily) in one eye, and lose all depth perception. Runways look different at night, the only sense of distance you have comes from your eyes focusing on the perspective/parallax of the runway. There's not much margin for error. (The common adage of 'modern planes land themselves' isn't quite true. Modern planes 'get on and stay on glide slope' themselves. Landing, in those last few seconds, is always an issue of experience and finesse.)

I will say though with all reality and seriousness though: If you don't see a or hear plane,

-It's too high for it to matter
-There is no plane.

And few if any pilots are going to veer off course and check out your beam just to snitch to the FAA.

Helicopters, I cannot speak for. I've never flown one, they generally operate far lower, and are far more maneuverable.

But overall, as a pilot, if you make sure no planes are around, I don't really care if you shoot your beam into the sky, even if I can see it.

Other pilots' MMV. We're just folks. There are people on the road who get infuriated if they see someone going 57mph in a 55mph. And there are pilots who would likely lose their sh*t if they saw a laser in the sky 5 miles to the east.

I think though, overall, most would not care, if you're not endangering them.

Please do not confuse this with the other posts i've made on the matter, of aviation and lasers being a serious problem. They are. But yes, the issue is mainly low-altitude tracking, on takeoff or landing, or in the case of helicopters, low altitude tagging/tracking in general.

In addition to optical/visual problems, as I explained before, lasers can be confused with emergency tower light gun signals, or runway/airport lighting, which is another problem alltogether.

But in general, "airplanes at cruise" and the pilots in them are not going to be your problem. We're not the Sky Police or the Laser Police. Use common sense and watch for aircraft, make sure the area is clear, and you're golden.

A bigger concern would be neighbors seeing it and calling the police, than a distant pilot seeing it and contacting the FAA.

Hopefully I didn't water down the seriousness of this issue. In summary, I don't believe you should "never point your laser into the sky". Just don't be an idiot about it, at any power output.

As was said above by Xplorer877,



Correct.

Click to expand...

aryntha said:

I am a pilot, and for the first time just this summer, I was "tracked" at a low altitude by a cheap green. (Over Denver ~ 7500ft MSL. (~1800ft AGL) near DIA/KDEN) I was in Class Bravo with a strict heading given by control, so I couldn't do much to avoid it.

While it was -very- unnerving, I pretty much just concentrated on instruments until I was out of his (Rather unsteady at that distance) range.

I thought about posting it on here, but I'm not really one to kick up drama, and while it was curious, it didn't cause much trouble. The beam was so diffuse at that point it was really little more than a confusion/orientation/distraction issue than an optical issue.

That said, from my point of view:

-If I saw a laser being shined into the sky at a distance, I wouldn't really care. Is that just because I'm an LPF member? ... maybe. None of the other pilots I hang around, I believe, would report a beam seen 10, 30, 50 miles away. We see lots of things at night. Most would go "oh look. A laser."

-I don't want to diminish the effect at altitude, as after that green (It DOES light up the entire cockpit, even if monentarily, and when you're dark-adjusted, even a not-so-amazingly-intense green light can blow that all to hell.) I could see myself getting dizzy from the shaky movement. Imagine you're flying at night, concentrating on navaids and what control is trying to tell you (sometimes there are a lot of other planes in the area) and suddenly a disco ball drops from your cockpit and the small space turns into a mini rave. That's kind of what it's like. Was I at risk of collision? No. Vectoring into another aircraft's path due to confusion? Could happen. Didn't.

-The above stated, I'm more worried about this kind of thing on approach and landing. Say, from a field near the airport, or a nearby hotel. That.. would be bad. Really bad. When I'm coming in on final and I'm 500 AGL, some joker with a PGL picking "low hanging fruit" to "see what happens" is probably the one scenario I hope I never encounter. The last thing you need at that moment is to get pegged (even temporarily) in one eye, and lose all depth perception. Runways look different at night, the only sense of distance you have comes from your eyes focusing on the perspective/parallax of the runway. There's not much margin for error. (The common adage of 'modern planes land themselves' isn't quite true. Modern planes 'get on and stay on glide slope' themselves. Landing, in those last few seconds, is always an issue of experience and finesse.)

I will say though with all reality and seriousness though: If you don't see a or hear plane,

-It's too high for it to matter
-There is no plane.

And few if any pilots are going to veer off course and check out your beam just to snitch to the FAA.

Helicopters, I cannot speak for. I've never flown one, they generally operate far lower, and are far more maneuverable.

But overall, as a pilot, if you make sure no planes are around, I don't really care if you shoot your beam into the sky, even if I can see it.

Other pilots' MMV. We're just folks. There are people on the road who get infuriated if they see someone going 57mph in a 55mph. And there are pilots who would likely lose their sh*t if they saw a laser in the sky 5 miles to the east.

I think though, overall, most would not care, if you're not endangering them.

Please do not confuse this with the other posts i've made on the matter, of aviation and lasers being a serious problem. They are. But yes, the issue is mainly low-altitude tracking, on takeoff or landing, or in the case of helicopters, low altitude tagging/tracking in general.

In addition to optical/visual problems, as I explained before, lasers can be confused with emergency tower light gun signals, or runway/airport lighting, which is another problem alltogether.

But in general, "airplanes at cruise" and the pilots in them are not going to be your problem. We're not the Sky Police or the Laser Police. Use common sense and watch for aircraft, make sure the area is clear, and you're golden.

A bigger concern would be neighbors seeing it and calling the police, than a distant pilot seeing it and contacting the FAA.

Hopefully I didn't water down the seriousness of this issue. In summary, I don't believe you should "never point your laser into the sky". Just don't be an idiot about it, at any power output.

As was said above by Xplorer877,



Correct.

Click to expand...

BobFarmer said:

I'm in the San Diego area, I'm a laser owner, and I'm a GA pilot out of MYF. I like the "don't do it" approach. People who think they can look up and make sure there aren't any planes around don't know much about aviation. Planes can be at altitudes requiring special optics to see them, assuming they aren't being blocked by even a small cloud. Most of the lasers today will shoot right through a cloud. Most GA planes, although equipped with mode C, are virtually invisible to the naked eye above just a few thousand feet AGL.

I was on the news last week because I landed just ahead of a GA crash at my airport due to a malfunctioning door. We pilots don't need any more to deal with, aviation workloads are already high enough without dodging laser beams. It isn't that a pilot sucks if he/she can't keep flying after a laser 'strike.' The pilots don't simply crash or not crash. They can sustain eye damage, become disoriented, etc. For anyone who thinks that's funny, I have a 450mW Optotronics RPL with a 3x expander on it for you to stare at.

As an aside, I do agree with nearly everything aryntha said above, especially on short final. My "don't do it" opinion though is that I don't want to leave judgment regarding whether or not I will be impacted by your laser up to you. You don't know my situation as a pilot, so I'd rather just not have you deciding that I should or shouldn't eat your laser beam.

Click to expand...