just a reminder for those with arctics

you can sell them on ebay and i dont know who started the rumour u couldnt prime example

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemVersion&item=140476160776&view=all&tid=475336362004

Given the fact that they are FDA approved with an accession number, they should be perfectly acceptable to sell on ebay.... but it seems that the listing has been removed..

ElektroFreak said:

Given the fact that they are FDA approved with an accession number, they should be perfectly acceptable to sell on ebay.... but it seems that the listing has been removed..

Click to expand...

I had a guy contact me through ebay today.. He has had >5< arctics
lost to customs... Regardless of safety features, they seem to be having trouble
getting them into the USA.

Ebay wont allow anything over 5mW if it gets reported..
Some people think that ebay looks for this stuff, but in reality
its usually competing vendors who flag the auctions.

I have had idiots flag my bare diodes before. Ebay took them down
but were re listed shortly after with their 'ok'.


Little known fact, the first item ever sold on ebay was a broken laser pointer..
Sold by ebays creator Pierre Omidyar... for 14.$

source http://thelongestlistofthelongeststuffatthelongestdomainnameatlonglast.com/first76.html

Ebay generally replies on its army of finks, but some items they do keyword track... Just try listing a book that talks about the "titmouse" or anything with the word "erection" in it (such as a medical book on sexual dysfucntion).

Here is an auction of a S3 that did not get deleted
1 Watt S3 Spyder III Arctic Handheld Laser G2 Model - eBay (item 280581344152 end time Oct-28-10 18:32:35 PDT)

The Arctic Falls under the Hazardous Items category. Hazardous Items - Other Hazardous items-Restricted:
Elemental iodine (250 grams or less)
Fuel additives, though sellers have to include a health disclaimer and can't make performance claims in their listing
Handheld lasers with an output of more than 5 milliwatts (MW) of power
Hazardous materials and explosives that the U.S. Postal Service (USPS) has identified as ORM-D (Other Regulated Materials-Domestic) have to include specific shipping restrictions in an eBay listing. (See the USPS website for mailing requirements.)
Iodine solutions (including tinctures of iodine) may be restricted by federal and state laws, including California state law.

Odd that they were lost to customs wannaburn.. All necessary gov't paperwork for import was included with mine, including an accession number. Customs has no right or reason to confiscate, since the Arctics are all legal. I was skeptical myself until I saw it with my own eyes..

They MAY have FDA paperwork, but the FDA is still sitting on most people's S3 that have a port of entry on the west coast. Mine has been held by the FDA since Oct 22nd with no explanation or contact. So "officially" it has not been confiscated, it is under review.

Someone at the FDA on the west coast has probably decided to use their discretion to tie up the S3 until they can find a reason to revoke WL approval, or to drive WL out of business. WL has made some very powerful enemies in California (Lucas Films, Fox, News Corp).

They have no aperture blanker, no emission indicator light, or (IIRC) no delay. They are self-contained and battery powered. They are well over 5mW.

They do NOT fit the legal (FDA) requirements for a laser pointer in the US.

The only real question is whether there is a "loophole" in the law by calling these "hand-held" lasers instead of "pointers."

Also, all customs has to do is open one package to see that it is a "Wicked Lasers" product. WL is on the "prohibited" list.

I'm not saying, "Don't buy one." I'm saying, "Don't be surprised and/or angry if/when customs grabs it.

Peace,
dave

As long as WL advertises that they are FDA compliant you can dispute the credit card charge if the item is seized or indefinitely held for inspection. If you have a gold or better card you can even dispute the charge if the item fails anywhere from 90 days to 1 year after getting it.

Chase allowed me to dispute the charge 95 days after the order date because WL told me in writing that it would ship in Aug, and the didn't ship until Oct.

IF the FDA ever releases my S3, and assuming it isn't a piece of junk, I'll let WL recharge my card.

daguin said:

They have no aperture blanker, no emission indicator light, or (IIRC) no delay. They are self-contained and battery powered. They are well over 5mW.

They do NOT fit the legal (FDA) requirements for a laser pointer in the US.

The only real question is whether there is a "loophole" in the law by calling these "hand-held" lasers instead of "pointers."

Also, all customs has to do is open one package to see that it is a "Wicked Lasers" product. WL is on the "prohibited" list.

I'm not saying, "Don't buy one." I'm saying, "Don't be surprised and/or angry if/when customs grabs it.

Peace,
dave

Click to expand...

Actually, there is a loophole.. and I believe that it does have to do with the distinction between handheld lasers and laser pointers.. The CDRH somewhat recently decreed that laser products entered into commerce in the US (including imports) need only meet the less-stringent international standards. This decree is called Laser Notice 50..

The following document is all that is required to import a laser system into the US legally (this is a photograph of the one that I received with my Arctic):




Of course, I'm not saying anything about Wicked or their products other that the Arctics are legal to import into the US.

ElektroFreak said:

Actually, there is a loophole.. and I believe that it does have to do with the distinction between handheld lasers and laser pointers.. The CDRH somewhat recently decreed that laser products entered into commerce in the US (including imports) need only meet the less-stringent international standards. This decree is called Laser Notice 50..

Click to expand...

"Laser Notice 50" only removes the objection to lack aperture attenuators and emission indicators in class II and class IIIA lasers

Peace,
dave

**EDIT** Further reading shows that the parts of the IEC standards that the FDA is going to amend in "Laser Notice 50" specifically deals with medical lasers. It specifically retains control over "removable" lasers systems.

Truth be told, I'm no lawyer, but to the best of my knowledge the above document will get a laser through customs.. Whatever legal mumbo-jumbo Wicked went through to prove that their device is worthy of an accession number I have no idea.

separate tailcap.
What is the problem with that? Hell you could stick silly putty in front of the lens and ship the batteries separate.
Put a piece of tape over the contact of the switch.
The are a lot of different ways of disabling a laser.
That means it is <5mW if it isn't working....

AUTO XX said:

separate tailcap.
What is the problem with that? Hell you could stick silly putty in front of the lens and ship the batteries separate.
Put a piece of tape over the contact of the switch.
The are a lot of different ways of disabling a laser.
That means it is <5mW if it isn't working....

Click to expand...

Unfortunately WL is still barred from selling in the US. If the "Wicked Lasers" bit comes to customs' attention, it would probably get seized.

Also of note is that an accession number is essentially a case number with the FDA - not a blanket license to export to the US.

Also, has it occurred to anyone that the papers may just be fudged? Just playing the Devil's Advocate.

-Trevor

ElektroFreak said:

Truth be told, I'm no lawyer, but to the best of my knowledge the above document will get a laser through customs.. Whatever legal mumbo-jumbo Wicked went through to prove that their device is worthy of an accession number I have no idea.

Click to expand...

Based on what I have read to date, getting an accession number is easy (if you fill the form out right). The IMPORTER (in this case whatever company WL is using) writes out a report showing how the new product conforms to the necessary regulations. If the form is filled out correctly, an accession number is issued. The FDA does not require physical samples to be submitted for testing.

Remember, the US legal system is based in English law (innocent until proven guilty). Now the importer can begin shipping units into the US. It is now left to the customs and the FDA to "catch" the importer shipping units into the US that do not conform to the report.

I am sure that the report that was used to obtain the accession number shows that the laser conforms. However, if a customs officer opens one and suspects that it does not conform, the unit is held for testing. If the units being imported do not conform to the report, the lasers will be confiscated and action can be taken against the importer.

If it is shown that this is not an isolated instance, there can be a notice sent out to hold all of the shipments.

I imagine, this is what is happening on the west coast now. Someone found that these lasers did not conform to what was in the report and the system is now grinding through the process. This is probably what got WL onto the prohibited list in the first place.

We would have to be able to read the report filed by WL to get the accession number to know if it was fraudulent or not.

They also still have the problem of WL's name being all over the interior packaging, the paperwork, and the laser itself.

Peace,
dave

IDK.. given the fact that the CDRH regs are convoluted and difficult on their best day, I have my doubts that anyone, much less any of us, really understands what is involved. My information I base off of various conversations I've had with people who have gone through the FDA's processes, and according to the information that was given to me the accession number and the above form are all that's required to import lasers, regardless of power, intended usage, or form factor. That's all I can say. If Wicked has invented a load of BS, it would seem highly self-defeating.. not that they haven't done self-defeating things before...