Review of the new 15W LPM from LPS....

Thanks for the review, I'm glad I saved my money.

I was told growing up that it is worth your money to buy good tools and being a cheapskate I have learned that lesson myself more than once.

Just looking at this build I would not knock it if it was someone's personal toy, I might even slop something as ugly together for my own use, but there is no way I would ever sell something so poorly constructed, not even with the caveat of it being a pre production unit.

I'm not trying to be mean, just honest about my thoughts, this is what an old boss of mine in his redneck eloquence would call $h1t work.

Hi Red
I guess we will have to wait for the fallout to commence.

Rich

Subbing for updates. op:

astralist said:

And here I thought you'll do these Jerry
BTW, it would be great to provide your standard LPM specs and (more importantly) the sensor type as well
Even with my recently calibrated Ophir sensor, because of the difference in original calibrating wavelength, they give a different reading to one wavelength.

Click to expand...

I'm not quite sure what you mean or want
to say.... Sorry..
Where did you get your OPHIR sensor calibrated.

GSS said:

$80 each out of your own pocket for a "review also" on a product that didn't seem to cut it with more than a few issue's right from the start doesn't sound right

Click to expand...

To be fair.... we were not asked to do a review
by Tommy at least in my case. The old timers
know that I always by a new LPM offered on
LPF...:yh:
Still have a Review to do on the Astralist LPM
at some point.

Encap said:

LPF is not part of the private vendors internet web site business nor a part of the garage sale mentality for the most part site, ebay.

Tommy should refund the price paid to both Lasersbee and Lifetime--what's fair is fair--the unit as delivered are not as described unusable junk.
The unit was put up for sale on his web site as a finished product, announced and offered for sale in the LPF BST sub-forum, and purchased in good faith but the product is not even close to what it should/is supposed to be.
The business situation is the same regardless if done knowingly or unknowingly--serious misrepresentation, garbage level construction, inaccurate, and faulty in several ways, not functionally as described--in short defective from the get go has been clearly shown.

Click to expand...

If I had purchased this from some unknown
seller on another site... A PayPal dispute would
have already been started as "Not as Described/
Defective".
To be fair I did open the LPM and removed the
Silicone. Even doing that... obviously... did not
de-calibrate the LPM at different wavelengths
or make the Sensor coating smoke at only ~4W.

BowtieGuy said:

You guys are all correct, LPS/Tommy should make good on on these obviously defective LPM's, and he hopefully will.
These should never have been for sale in the BST, but maybe offered for testing at no charge, then there would be no harm done, if the LPM sucks, it gets a poor review and nobody buys one.

Click to expand...

I think that would have been a better solution
than selling them without field testing them.
Well I'm not sure how many members would now...:cryyy:

RedCowboy said:

Thanks for the review, I'm glad I saved my money.
Just looking at this build I would not knock it if it was someone's personal toy, I might even slop something as ugly together for my own use, but there is no way I would ever sell something so poorly constructed, not even with the caveat of it being a pre production unit.
I'm not trying to be mean, just honest about my thoughts, this is what an old boss of mine in his redneck eloquence would call $h1t work.

Click to expand...

The white Silicone is perhaps there to hide the
circuit design... Which is understandable.
But yeah.. after I removed most of it the internal
wiring and soldering looks like it was done by a
10 year old. Not in the shop right now... I'll post
a few more pics tomorrow.

In the mean time we should give Tommy a chance
to respond to the Review...

Jerry

lasersbee said:

I'm not quite sure what you mean or want
to say.... Sorry..
Where did you get your OPHIR sensor calibrated.


To be fair.... we were not asked to do a review
by Tommy at least in my case. The old timers
know that I always by a new LPM offered on
LPF...:yh:
Still have a Review to do on the Astralist LPM
at some point.


If I had purchased this from some unknown
seller on another site... A PayPal dispute would
have already been started as "Not as Described/
Defective".
To be fair I did open the LPM and removed the
Silicone. Even doing that... obviously... did not
de-calibrate the LPM at different wavelengths
or make the Sensor coating smoke at only ~4W.


I think that would have been a better solution
than selling them without field testing them.
Well I'm not sure how many members would now...:cryyy:


The white Silicone is perhaps there to hide the
circuit design... Which is understandable.
But yeah.. after I removed most of it the internal
wiring and soldering looks like it was done by a
10 year old. Not in the shop right now... I'll post
a few more pics tomorrow.

In the mean time we should give Tommy a chance
to respond to the Review...

Jerry

Click to expand...

Good points Jerry, however as I said before:

"The business situation is the same regardless if done knowingly or unknowingly--serious misrepresentation, garbage level construction, inaccurate, and faulty in several ways, not functionally as described--in short defective from the get go has been clearly shown."

Tommy should make it right--he did not do his due diligence homework prior to offering the LPM for sale.
Tommy should refund the price paid to both Lasersbee, Lifetime, and SOSDD--the unit as delivered is not as described, inferior/poor quality unusable for the purpose junk.
An LPM is not a laser where many get away with low quality product in many ways but even than it has to work properly.
An LPM is a technical measuring instrument an entirely different class and type of product.

Question: Would anyone accept any other measurement tool electronic or not, even a 12" ruler with inaccurate markings and bad joke quality in ever way possible or a micrometer made that way?
Answer: No

This "defective" misrepresented LPM is substandard in every way possible, unfortunately for everyone.
Tommy should make good on any sale of it.
LPF members have been very kind/soft and forgiving with other products Tommy is reselling meaning not as critical as they could be in evaluations.

He needs to go back to the drawing board and come up with an solid reliable low cost pocket LPM he can call the "Thor Pocket LPM" --the unit reviewed is not it.

I guess we will have to wait to see, what's what, as soon as Tommy has had a chance to respond.

Encap said:

Good points Jerry, however as I said before:

"The business situation is the same regardless if done knowingly or unknowingly--serious misrepresentation, garbage level construction, inaccurate, and faulty in several ways, not functionally as described--in short defective from the get go has been clearly shown."

Tommy should make it right--he did not do his due diligence homework prior to offering the LPM for sale.
Tommy should refund the price paid to both Lasersbee, Lifetime, and SOSDD--the unit as delivered is not as described, inferior/poor quality unusable for the purpose junk.
An LPM is not a laser where many get away with low quality product in many ways but even than it has to work properly.
An LPM is a technical measuring instrument an entirely different class and type of product.

Question: Would anyone accept any other measurement tool electronic or not, even a 12" ruler with inaccurate markings and bad joke quality in ever way possible or a micrometer made that way?
Answer: No

This "defective" misrepresented LPM is substandard in every way possible, unfortunately for everyone.
Tommy should make good on any sale of it.
LPF members have been very kind/soft and forgiving with other products Tommy is reselling meaning not as critical as they could be in evaluations.

He needs to go back to the drawing board and come up with an solid reliable low cost pocket LPM he can call the "Thor Pocket LPM" --the unit reviewed is not it.

I guess we will have to wait to see, what's what, as soon as Tommy has had a chance to respond.

Click to expand...

You make a good point...

This 15W LPM is a measuring device with stated
power specs and as such needs to be held to a higher
standard than regular every day consumer products
like... say... paper towels.

I see Tommy has been off the Forum for a few days...

• Last Activity: 10-21-2017 04:06 AM

Hope he signs in today to respond...


Jerry

wow, what a lively discussion here.

thank you lasersbee's review, and all of you. this is an unexpected review, i didn't think that such a small device will lead to some concerns.

I will answer your questions here, but before that, i want to make it clear:

All Amateur LPM, including lasersbee's LPM, can't compare with OPHIR LPM, even the VLP-2000 LPM that we are selling is better that those, it can pass test by China National Institute of Metrology.

So, for Amateur LPM, there is only 1 goal, that is to give you a rough concept that how much output the laser would have. To prevent others sell you 50mw for 200mw, and 1w for a 5w one.

But, do you think we are trifling on the Pocket LPM? definitely not, we are so serious on it.

Ok let's answer your questions,

LiPo Charger

The LPM is not allowed to disassemble, if you do that, will damage the board. that's the reason why PCB is damaged.

Broadband Coating
The LPM is calibrated by below lasers, which are tested by OPHIR LPM:

405nm 500mw
445nm 2w
445nm 1.6w
465nm 2.6w
532nm 400mw
638nm 800mw

I have check with my standard 5mw 650nm laser, it reads exactly 5mw.
I don't know the laser source in the review, but I prefer to trust OPHIR.

Max Power Test and Sensor

This should be the most concerned part of you. lasersbee and Lifetime17 has mentioned smoke and burn marks, and conclude that it can't afford 15w. that's not true, at least that's not completed. They didn't mention the reading. Even there is smoke, there should be a reading, what is that? The smoke only indicate the coating may not be perfect. it will not affect the usage.

here i show you a heat test. i state firstly, the Energy density of laser and fire is different, but the working principle of LPM is sense heat and transfer to numbers. so the test still have meanings.


we can see the LPM can afford 10w+ and still work perfectly.


I hope above can answer the questions and want to emphasize one thing:

This LPM is not perfect, but it is good enough for normal use, it's calibrated from 405nm to 638nm. this is a real affordable and relative accurate LPM you could find.

Hi Tommy
I have 3 Ophir LPM thermopiles that’s all I use and I tested them to those units. As for the burning the coating isn’t the greatest compared to my Ophir heads. For the record mine was no disassembled and the readings were off by some margins. I was reluctant to test with a NUBM44 diode set to 4.5A so basically you’re saying that it will handle this test without damaging the mini LPM .
Rich

tommy said:

wow, what a lively discussion here.

thank you lasersbee's review, and all of you. this is an unexpected review, i didn't think that such a small device will lead to some concerns.

I will answer your questions here, but before that, i want to make it clear:

All Amateur LPM, including lasersbee's LPM, can't compare with OPHIR LPM, even the VLP-2000 LPM that we are selling is better that those, it can pass test by China National Institute of Metrology.

So, for Amateur LPM, there is only 1 goal, that is to give you a rough concept that how much output the laser would have. To prevent others sell you 50mw for 200mw, and 1w for a 5w one.

But, do you think we are trifling on the Pocket LPM? definitely not, we are so serious on it.

Ok let's answer your questions,

LiPo Charger

The LPM is not allowed to disassemble, if you do that, will damage the board. that's the reason why PCB is damaged.

Broadband Coating
The LPM is calibrated by below lasers, which are tested by OPHIR LPM:

405nm 500mw
445nm 2w
445nm 1.6w
465nm 2.6w
532nm 400mw
638nm 800mw

I have check with my standard 5mw 650nm laser, it reads exactly 5mw.
I don't know the laser source in the review, but I prefer to trust OPHIR.

Max Power Test and Sensor

This should be the most concerned part of you. lasersbee and Lifetime17 has mentioned smoke and burn marks, and conclude that it can't afford 15w. that's not true, at least that's not completed. They didn't mention the reading. Even there is smoke, there should be a reading, what is that? The smoke only indicate the coating may not be perfect. it will not affect the usage.

here i show you a heat test. i state firstly, the Energy density of laser and fire is different, but the working principle of LPM is sense heat and transfer to numbers. so the test still have meanings.

we can see the LPM can afford 10w+ and still work perfectly.


I hope above can answer the questions and want to emphasize one thing:

This LPM is not perfect, but it is good enough for normal use, it's calibrated from 405nm to 638nm. this is a real affordable and relative accurate LPM you could find.

Click to expand...

Tommy... thanks for responding...
I was hoping for a more understanding response..:yabbem:

First... who makes these "15W LPMs"... :thinking:
Are they produced by you/your company or
another manufacturer.

I will answer and respond to your concerns in order
of your Post...
I don't see your NIST Traceable OPHIR LPM....

1) We use a Brand New Coherent FieldMax II LPM to
Calibrate (every 6 months) our NewPort 1825C LPMs
that we use to calibrate our LaserBee products and
that was used to do these tests.
Our LaserBee Products are 5% accurate or better
as compared to a NIST traceable commercial LPM.

As shown it the review readings your sensor coating
is obviously not broadband.

2) Lifetime17 did not open his LPM... I did and have
not yet asked for a refund. The Lipo charger has not
been removed... I have over 35 years experience in
the Electronics feild... I think I would know how to
remove a PCB from Hot glue if I wanted to.

3) How can you possibly calibrate your LPM with
405nm to 638nm at different powers. I put it to
you that you only checked the rough output of
those lasers on the LPM....
I've still not seen your NIST traceable OPHIR LPM
and I have already stated that we used a recently
calibrated to Coherent NIST traceable LPM.

4) You seem to have trouble reading English...
It has be stated by Lifetime17 that a 405nm
900mW Laser Beam burnt your 15W LPM's
sensor coating.
It has been stated in my review above that
I saw smoke coming off your 15W LPM sensor's
coating at ~4 Watts of 808nm Laser Beam.
This using the same Max Power test procedures
we use on the LaserBee LPM sensors.
Yes... if the coating gets damage at 4 Watts
it will disintegrate at higher power and that WILL
affect the usage.

The brushed on paint that the manufacturer uses
is obviously NOT rated for 15W.... nor is it Broadband.

5) Your Heat Test with a lighter is a Joke...
It obviously show you know very little about LPMs.
Who tests LPMs with a lighter...

What was the wavelength of that flame...:thinking:
What was the actual Power output of that
flame compared to a NIST traceable LPM...:thinking:
How did you get that flame down to 2mm
diameter on your LPM's sensor...:thinking:
That is the diameter of the beam we use in
the shop to test our Sensors and in the Review.
Even you did not use a Laser over 2Watts...

Conclusion...

A) I don't want a Refund... I can do what I
want with a product I purchase as long as
I don't copy it and sell it...

B) The build quality should be improved...
- Rough cut Holes for USB and Display
- Substandard Soldering and the use of
Solid Wire to interconnect

C) Your 15W LPM should be rated at 3 Watts
to have a buffer so that if a customer goes
a little over 3W he won't damage the Sensor.

D) You really need to find a better coating..
so that it is BroadBand or supply a chart for
converting the different wavelength readings
to usable numbers.

E) If you just wanted a rough idea of power
you should consider using 3 LEDs High... Medium..
Low.

As it is this is NOT a Broadband 15 Watt LPM...
and should not be advertised as such... IMO


Jerry

Thanks for reviewing this lasersbee. I had better but still not good expectations of it for the price, but it's even worse.

I guess it wouldn't be bad if it was less than $40 or a cheap little kit for hobbyists, but Hyperion is definitely a much better budget choice at this price range.

https://laserpointerforums.com/f37/hello-guys-sorry-i-m-late-here-100314.html#post1470850 "I'm not a tech guy"
Tommy remember this post and the thread you started it on when you so called cared..
Do the right thing..

Jerry,
Tommy emailed me stating that the coating burning is NOT a problem, BUT he will look into it. Really now.

Rich

Rivem said:

Thanks for reviewing this lasersbee. I had better but still not good expectations of it for the price, but it's even worse.

I guess it wouldn't be bad if it was less than $40 or a cheap little kit for hobbyists, but Hyperion is defibitely a much better budget choice at this price range.

Click to expand...

Yeah... I bit the bullet and bought it to do
a review and possibly see some new tech but
same old.... I also thought it was better.

Lifetime17 said:

Jerry,
Tommy emailed me stating that the coating burning is NOT a problem, BUT he will look into it. Really now.

Rich

Click to expand...

If that was the case then we could just use crayons
for broadband coatings and rate them at 100Watts...
He should have field tested it before dumping it on
the market..
What I don't understand is why he sold them here
knowing full well that some of us here have actual
NIST traceable LPMs...

@Tommy...
The Coating burning at only ~4 Watts IS a problem !!!
since you claim and advertise it as 15W.
Not to mention the coating you use is not Broadband
or applied in a uniform thickness...
Then there is the issue of using silicone rubber to
attach the TEC to the Heatsink.. Silicone is not known
for good heat transfer.

BTW I would still like to know which recently calibrated
NIST traceable OPHIR LPM you used since you mentioned
it to try and prove a point earlier....

Jerry

Jerry,
well it seems like beating a dead horse basically , Only because Tommy replied in such a short manner .Not really describing the whole issue That is posted in your findings. as well in my tests. Just imagine me testing this with a 44/G2 out right. It might burn a hole clean through the unit is left long enough.


Rich

I have ordered one of these but it's been showing processing for over a week. I guess they have sold to many and I have to keep waiting.

lasersbee said:

Tommy... thanks for responding...
I was hoping for a more understanding response..:yabbem:

First... who makes these "15W LPMs"... :thinking:
Are they produced by you/your company or
another manufacturer.

As it is this is NOT a Broadband 15 Watt LPM...
and should not be advertised as such... IMO
Jerry

Click to expand...

Well said but then again you have technical knowledge and know what you are talking about plus integrity.
Tommy is just a Chinese reseller and marketing - a clever middle man.

Rivem said:

Thanks for reviewing this lasersbee. I had better but still not good expectations of it for the price, but it's even worse.

I guess it wouldn't be bad if it was less than $40 or a cheap little kit for hobbyists, but Hyperion is definitely a much better budget choice at this price range.

Click to expand...

Is only good as a stage prop. Worth maybe $25

GSS said:

https://laserpointerforums.com/f37/hello-guys-sorry-i-m-late-here-100314.html#post1470850 "I'm not a tech guy"
Tommy remember this post and the thread you started it on when you so called cared..
Do the right thing..

Click to expand...

Exactly but ..... is obvious

Lifetime17 said:

Jerry,
Tommy emailed me stating that the coating burning is NOT a problem, BUT he will look into it. Really now.
Rich

Click to expand...

Bogus excuse --bait and switch game BS -typical of a Chinese parasite reseller. Thought Tommy was better than that but does not seem to be the case, if it ever was.

Mosc007 said:

I have ordered one of these but it's been showing processing for over a week. I guess they have sold to many and I have to keep waiting.

Click to expand...

Common sense would say cancel the order.