Old 03-19-2012, 01:38 AM #17
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Default Re: Lazerer 1.2W 445nm Rifle V2 (1310mW) - Died after 3mo and then FIXED!

That's excellent news, TJ! Good to see Max is on top of things. A half cyllinder heatsink of the right size could probably solve the problem. I've debated trying to thermal epoxy one on my laser's driver, but I don't have anything that would fit, nor do I have the equipment to make something.

Edit; RHD's got a point. I have no idea about the business model Max has though, it may not be feasible for him to make the drivers or have them specially made. he might be looking for something off the shelf, so to speak.

I will say this though.. don't completely cover the driver in epoxy in the future! Mine is literally covered in it, it's like someone took the driver and dipped it in a bucket of epoxy, shook it off, and placed it inside. If I ever want to dissassemble the laser and replace the driver I probably can't without damaging the diode's pins. I know user maintenance and modification is not usually on the scope of the retailer/manufacturer, but I don't see how Lazerer would be able to replace a bad driver this way either... they'd have to replace the entire module just as I would have to. Simply not coating the driver in epoxy would make repairs on returns a lot easier and cost effective, and who knows, it might not overheat so much if air can get to the chips!


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Old 03-19-2012, 01:44 AM #18
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Default Re: Lazerer 1.2W 445nm Rifle V2 (1310mW) - Died after 3mo and then FIXED!

Hey,

If Lazerer/Max want it, they can have this. It's essentially a skeleton 108X or LM3XX driver PCB. It puts two ceramic caps and a polarity protection diode on the PCB. Then it allows you to plug in any TO-220 IC you want to use (1085, 317, 1117, etc), as well as any through-hole resistor. I haven't used the design yet for anything myself, but it's tiny and costs not much to utilize.

It makes it dead simple to heatsink the IC right onto the host/heatsink/any flat metal surface.

It's simple, flawless, and the parts cost about $3 depending on the IC you choose.





EDIT: So, based on the fact that they're sourcing drivers, am I to understand that Lazerer.com actually makes their own lasers? I did not believe this to be the case.
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Lazerer 1.2W 445nm Rifle V2 (1310mW) - Died after 3mo and then FIXED!-front.png   Lazerer 1.2W 445nm Rifle V2 (1310mW) - Died after 3mo and then FIXED!-back.png  
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Old 03-19-2012, 02:04 AM #19
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Default Re: Lazerer 1.2W 445nm Rifle V2 (1310mW) - Died after 3mo and then FIXED!

You're assuming Max's company is producing the lasers. I'm sure he is just running the "store" end of it.

Maybe the company producing the lasers wont update them due to cost efficiencies. Or maybe thats all that is available to them. You have to remember that while we were building >1W lasers, the Chinese didnt believe it. Only after they did some research here did they figure out a way to do >1W. Arctics were a great example that they had no clue.

You're right though, doesn't make sense. Only Max knows the real reason. Seems simple for us, but who knows what is really going on.

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It's good that they're working on the problem.

But it's totally confusing to me that they cannot find another driver to keep the laser "up to spec".

"Spec", if I'm understanding correctly, is 1.2W. Further, I understand that these "Rifles" use 2x 16340 cells, implying that they don't need a boost driver, they just need a simple linear.

So they need a linear driver capable of handling about 1.2A of current? And they can't figure this out?

That's like... infinitely trivial, is it not?

I mean, we have complete beginners on this forum tossing together 1085 based linear drivers that will handle 1.2A of current, safely, reliably, and right down to the lowest safe discharge voltage of 2x lithium ion cells. You could quite literally build a 1085 based driver that would do exactly what they need, for about $3 (conservatively) without even using cheap components or scrimping on anything. What am I missing? Why is a 1.2A linear problematic to design?

EDIT: Heck, if Lazerer/Max want a linear PCB, I'll happily send them something.
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Old 03-19-2012, 04:05 AM #20
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Default Re: Lazerer 1.2W 445nm Rifle V2 (1310mW) - Died after 3mo and then FIXED!

Max has been aware of the driver and heatsink issues for a long time. I brought it up in PM's months ago too.

While I'm sure he would switch over eventually, I don't think there is any real incentive for him to do right now. For light use, and with a strict 60 second duty cycle, the lasers do work well as they are.

He did listen about the lens though... so hopefully it's only a matter of time.
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Old 03-19-2012, 04:11 AM #21
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Default Re: Lazerer 1.2W 445nm Rifle V2 (1310mW) - Died after 3mo and then FIXED!

I pointed him to this thread, so we'll have to wait and see if he replies.
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Old 03-19-2012, 04:55 PM #22
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Default Re: Lazerer 1.2W 445nm Rifle V2 (1310mW) - Died after 3mo and then FIXED!

We don't manufacture the laser, nor making our own driver. Rifle and every model being sold on our web site is finished product from our supplier. However we will be able to replace any parts to improve the original design (like what we did on the lens).

As we have already came across almost all avaliable driver here and have no luck to get the perfect one, designing our own driver seem to be the only solution to improve our 445nm laser further. However it will definately be a long way to go. The circuit must be fully tested and the layout must be designed to suit most of our host before we product them in mass. It will take us some time to do this. Like InfinitusEquitas say we will eventually do this, just about the time.

Rhd: Thanks for providing your pcb design.I appreciated for that. It will definately be one of the solution among our consideration.

Sigurthr: The glue on the driver is not expory but thermal silicon. I see no point that the driver have to be expory

We still recommend to operate the laser within our suggested duty cycle. This is not only for the consideration of the over heating driver issue, but also to let the diode live longer.

Max,
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Old 03-19-2012, 05:53 PM #23
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Default Re: Lazerer 1.2W 445nm Rifle V2 (1310mW) - Died after 3mo and then FIXED!

Thanks for clearing that up. I mean we knew you didn't manufacture the green dpss lasers, but it wasn't as clear cut with the 405/445/638/650 lasers.

The other issue to consider, long term, is heatsinking. If you are planning to upgrade parts, it would be a great move to offer an "Upgrade Heatsink" option. A copper heatsink that would fit most of your hosts (rifle/cyber/stick) would go a long way to increasing the lifespan of the lasers.
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Old 03-19-2012, 07:30 PM #24
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Default Re: Lazerer 1.2W 445nm Rifle V2 (1310mW) - Died after 3mo and then FIXED!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxLZR View Post
Sigurthr: The glue on the driver is not expory but thermal silicon. I see no point that the driver have to be expory

We still recommend to operate the laser within our suggested duty cycle. This is not only for the consideration of the over heating driver issue, but also to let the diode live longer.

Max,
Thank you very much for posting that Max, that is good to know!

As I said above I don't have a spanner wrench so I didn't remove the diode and driver, so I just had to poke in at it with it inside the host. The glue looked and felt like epoxy - kinda rubbery texture and didn't dent from my nail, so I assumed it epoxy. If I ever have to open it up and do a major fix I'll get a spanner wrench and remove the entire module, clean/remove the thermal silicon, and heatsink the driver.

I still follow the duty cycle pretty closely, the only time I have it on for longer is when the laser is very cold and you can feel that the area with the diode's heatsink is still cold to the touch.
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Old 03-19-2012, 07:52 PM #25
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Default Re: Lazerer 1.2W 445nm Rifle V2 (1310mW) - Died after 3mo and then FIXED!

I wonder if by thermal silicone he meant tim epoxy, or arctic silver cement, stuff does not work to dissipate heat in globs and its thermal conductivity is crap compared to any metal, is is only to be used in a super fine layer to glue heat-sinks to mosfets and things like that. I use it to bond heatsinks to power caps on motherboards, when I know my cpu is going to draw like 250w. got a 955be to 4.2 oc stable by doing this, is was not that the chip would not do it, my caps were were the issue, as soon as I cooled them it was stable and ran prime 95 while playing BF3 for 4 hours to test it.


ps expory that reminds me how someone would say making fun of someone from China so is ironically very funny. i feel his pain on tail caps though, they just keep messing up and I just keep replacing, my longest lasting tail cap is a laser I got for Dagun but as of last week I got to tap it to make the tail switch work or it puts out 400mw instead of 1.4W but it has 40 or more hours of run time, so I think the old MXDL tail caps are a bit stronger from the 5a rating.

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Old 03-20-2012, 08:28 PM #26
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Default Re: Lazerer 1.2W 445nm Rifle V2 (1310mW) - Died after 3mo and then FIXED!

Max, I have your true 1W blue laser in the Rifle host....I was wonder if you'll be doing a retro fit on old models if we ship them to you once you get the improvements online? It's working fine so far....I stay within the duty cycle, but I wouldn't mind getting the improvements done some day.

As for the 1.2W, this is why I ordered the 1W....I was afraid of heat issues.
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Old 03-20-2012, 08:54 PM #27
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Default Re: Lazerer 1.2W 445nm Rifle V2 (1310mW) - Died after 3mo and then FIXED!

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Max, I have your true 1W blue laser in the Rifle host....I was wonder if you'll be doing a retro fit on old models if we ship them to you once you get the improvements online? It's working fine so far....I stay within the duty cycle, but I wouldn't mind getting the improvements done some day.

As for the 1.2W, this is why I ordered the 1W....I was afraid of heat issues.
Thats unrealistic. If there are any improvements in any product that you buy, you never have the option to return yours to get the new improvements. If that was true, you can send back your Ipad to get the new bells and whistles. Only in a recall situation can you return the unit. Your unit is working fine with the duty cycle recommended by the company. Thats all thats relevant.
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Old 03-21-2012, 12:55 AM #28
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Default Re: Lazerer 1.2W 445nm Rifle V2 (1310mW) - Died after 3mo and then FIXED!

Wow...I almost bought one of these a couple of days ago.

if lazeerer / yob want to out together a nice 1.5-2W 445nm, I'm ready to buy

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Old 03-21-2012, 01:51 AM #29
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Default Re: Lazerer 1.2W 445nm Rifle V2 (1310mW) - Died after 3mo and then FIXED!

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A copper heatsink that would fit most of your hosts (rifle/cyber/stick) would go a long way to increasing the lifespan of the lasers.
The diameter of the heatsink for RIFLE already equal to the outer diameter of cyber/stick host. There is no way to fit the same heatsink into every host unless we put an adaptor inside RIFLR (ie another mass production).

Quote:
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I was wonder if you'll be doing a retro fit on old models if we ship them to you once you get the improvements online?
Jack I am so sorry I know what TJ said is sad, but true. Please follow the duty cycle and I am sure you won't need any upgrade. And even if we have the improvement later. We still would not recommend any longer duty cycle.
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Old 03-27-2012, 10:56 PM #30
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Default Re: Lazerer 1.2W 445nm Rifle V2 (1310mW) - Died after 3mo and then FIXED!

Turns out my laser has the SAME exact problem, the wire was maybe held on by 1 or 2 strands and then broke away from the driver... not happy
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:19 AM #31
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Default Re: Lazerer 1.2W 445nm Rifle V2 (1310mW) - Died after 3mo and then FIXED!

If it is new, contact Max for a replacement. Mine was older, so I had to fix it myself.
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Old 03-28-2012, 11:20 AM #32
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Default Re: Lazerer 1.2W 445nm Rifle V2 (1310mW) - Died after 3mo and then FIXED!

Im going to repair it myself, a new one will most likely have the same problem.
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