Old 08-31-2009, 05:06 PM #17
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Default Re: 200mW Wicked Lasers SPYDER I Pro Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by john_lawson View Post
I believe not doesn't that mean that it has a fan in it or somthiong
John, TEC cooling refers to cooling a device with a thermopile. Active cooling is done by using a fan and that consumes a lot of power, batteries don't last much. The only laser I know that has a fan inside is the Hercules. However, the Spyder III's have TEC cooling.


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Old 08-31-2009, 08:55 PM #18
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Default Re: 200mW Wicked Lasers SPYDER I Pro Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikokapo View Post
John, TEC cooling refers to cooling a device with a thermopile. Active cooling is done by using a fan and that consumes a lot of power, batteries don't last much. The only laser I know that has a fan inside is the Hercules. However, the Spyder III's have TEC cooling.
Yea thats why i was asking, cause i knew that one of the spyders did. Tec also refered to as "tesla cooling" or "petier cooling"
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Old 08-31-2009, 09:18 PM #19
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Default Re: 200mW Wicked Lasers SPYDER I Pro Review

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Originally Posted by gotwake424 View Post
Yea thats why i was asking, cause i knew that one of the spyders did. Tec also refered to as "tesla cooling" or "petier cooling"
Tesla cooling it WLs trademark name for TEC cooling, don't confuse it with Peltier Cooling which is a peltier thermopile (in general).
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Old 08-31-2009, 09:22 PM #20
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Default Re: 200mW Wicked Lasers SPYDER I Pro Review

Thats one insane power reading!
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Old 08-31-2009, 11:37 PM #21
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Default Re: 200mW Wicked Lasers SPYDER I Pro Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikokapo View Post
Tesla cooling it WLs trademark name for TEC cooling, don't confuse it with Peltier Cooling which is a peltier thermopile (in general).
Peltier Cooling is the same as the WL "tesla cooling" tho isn't it? They are both peltier thermoplies aren't they? anyway back on topic. Good review! The power is insane too!
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Old 09-01-2009, 12:12 AM #22
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Default Re: 200mW Wicked Lasers SPYDER I Pro Review

A Peltier Cell driven with electrical power is a TEC (Thermo Electric Cooler)..

A Peltier Cell driven with a heat differential to produce a voltage (in the
"Seebeck effect" mode) can be considered a Thermopile...


Jerry
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Old 09-01-2009, 12:23 PM #23
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Default Re: 200mW Wicked Lasers SPYDER I Pro Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by lasersbee View Post
A Peltier Cell driven with electrical power is a TEC (Thermo Electric Cooler)..

A Peltier Cell driven with a heat differential to produce a voltage (in the
"Seebeck effect" mode) can be considered a Thermopile...


Jerry
Cool, i didn't know that.....
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Old 09-04-2009, 12:35 PM #24
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Default Re: 200mW Wicked Lasers SPYDER I Pro Review

I was just looking at the PL forum and found this post by a member named "buffo"
in a thread that was being quite negative about the Wicked Laser claim relating
to CDRH compliance...

Well, after some more research, it turns out that I was grossly mistaken.

Sorry guys, but Wicked Lasers is correct: The CDRH rules *HAVE* changed, and most of us here didn't even know it. We all were looking at the Code of Federal Regulations, but we didn't consider that the CDRH also sends out Laser Notice letters from time to time which serve as "interpretation of the federal standard", at least until Congress gets around to approving those changes into the federal code.

So the gem that we all missed was Laser Notice # 50, which offers manufacturers *and* importers another way to certify their laser products. This "other way" is to certify the product under the International IEC standard for laser products (IEC 60825-1 and IEC 60601-2-22). If you meet the IEC standard, then you don't have to meet the 21CFR1040.10 standards for a number of items. And these items are precisely the items that we're complaining about. (Like having a mechanical shutter on a solid state laser, or requiring an emission delay circuit.)

Here is an except from Laser Notice # 50:

Quote:
CDRH will not object to conformance with the
comparable sections of IEC 60825-1, as amended by Amendment 2 of January 2001 in lieu of conformance with the following sections of 21 CFR 1040:

And then there are a bunch of sub-sections listed. Look at the document yourself for the details - there are far too many to list here.

Note that not all of 21CFR1040 has been superseded! There are still some US requirements that go beyond the IEC standard. (Mostly related to labeling, variances, and quality control items for laser manufacturers - again, read the notice to get the details.) But the important thing is that the IEC standard does have some relaxed rules that will be *BIG* changes for US manufacturers (or importers).

What does this all mean? It means that I didn't understand the US rules as well as I thought I did. It means I was wrong. As far as I can tell, Wicked Lasers' new line of hand held lasers *are* compliant with these new regulations. I do want to do some more research on the matter, however.

Adam


It seems there is a variance and as Steve said... WL Lasers seem to be legal...

Here's a second post by "buffo" with more info on the efforts WL has done to get
compliance for their Lasers..

Yeah, me too pal... I've got some crow to eat it seems!

I've also been able to verify that Wicked Lasers has been working with Casey Stack at Laser Compliance Inc. for over a year to bring their lasers into compliance with the IEC rules. This isn't just some marketing gimmick for them - they've invested a good deal of money into this project.

For those who may not know, Casey Stack is one of the industry heavyweights when it comes to Laser Safety here in the US. He's been in the industry since the late 1980's, and he's worked for all sorts of companies. He was very active in ILDA back in the early 90's when all the standards we use today were being drafted. Today he helps laser companies navigate the legal minefields here in the US.

I've spoken with a lot of people about this topic, and you would be surprised at how many people were under the same mistaken impression we were - namely that these lasers absolutely could not be legally sold in the US. But it turns out that Wicked Lasers is right and we were all wrong. (oops!)

Adam


buffo (Adam)...

I'm sure that Steve and Wicked Lasers will graciously accept this apology...


Jerry
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Old 09-04-2009, 05:41 PM #25
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Default Re: 200mW Wicked Lasers SPYDER I Pro Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by lasersbee View Post
I was just looking at the PL forum and found this post by a member named "buffo"
in a thread that was being quite negative about the Wicked Laser claim relating
to CDRH compliance...

Well, after some more research, it turns out that I was grossly mistaken.

Sorry guys, but Wicked Lasers is correct: The CDRH rules *HAVE* changed, and most of us here didn't even know it. We all were looking at the Code of Federal Regulations, but we didn't consider that the CDRH also sends out Laser Notice letters from time to time which serve as "interpretation of the federal standard", at least until Congress gets around to approving those changes into the federal code.

So the gem that we all missed was Laser Notice # 50, which offers manufacturers *and* importers another way to certify their laser products. This "other way" is to certify the product under the International IEC standard for laser products (IEC 60825-1 and IEC 60601-2-22). If you meet the IEC standard, then you don't have to meet the 21CFR1040.10 standards for a number of items. And these items are precisely the items that we're complaining about. (Like having a mechanical shutter on a solid state laser, or requiring an emission delay circuit.)

Here is an except from Laser Notice # 50:

Quote:
CDRH will not object to conformance with the
comparable sections of IEC 60825-1, as amended by Amendment 2 of January 2001 in lieu of conformance with the following sections of 21 CFR 1040:

And then there are a bunch of sub-sections listed. Look at the document yourself for the details - there are far too many to list here.

Note that not all of 21CFR1040 has been superseded! There are still some US requirements that go beyond the IEC standard. (Mostly related to labeling, variances, and quality control items for laser manufacturers - again, read the notice to get the details.) But the important thing is that the IEC standard does have some relaxed rules that will be *BIG* changes for US manufacturers (or importers).

What does this all mean? It means that I didn't understand the US rules as well as I thought I did. It means I was wrong. As far as I can tell, Wicked Lasers' new line of hand held lasers *are* compliant with these new regulations. I do want to do some more research on the matter, however.

Adam


It seems there is a variance and as Steve said... WL Lasers seem to be legal...

Here's a second post by "buffo" with more info on the efforts WL has done to get
compliance for their Lasers..

Yeah, me too pal... I've got some crow to eat it seems!

I've also been able to verify that Wicked Lasers has been working with Casey Stack at Laser Compliance Inc. for over a year to bring their lasers into compliance with the IEC rules. This isn't just some marketing gimmick for them - they've invested a good deal of money into this project.

For those who may not know, Casey Stack is one of the industry heavyweights when it comes to Laser Safety here in the US. He's been in the industry since the late 1980's, and he's worked for all sorts of companies. He was very active in ILDA back in the early 90's when all the standards we use today were being drafted. Today he helps laser companies navigate the legal minefields here in the US.

I've spoken with a lot of people about this topic, and you would be surprised at how many people were under the same mistaken impression we were - namely that these lasers absolutely could not be legally sold in the US. But it turns out that Wicked Lasers is right and we were all wrong. (oops!)

Adam


buffo (Adam)...

I'm sure that Steve and Wicked Lasers will graciously accept this apology...


Jerry

That's great info, Jerry. Thanks for sharing!
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:39 PM #26
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Default Re: 200mW Wicked Lasers SPYDER I Pro Review

this laser is expensive.... however nice review.... but WL should have cheaper laser..... or no one will buy their laser... also if they are made of good quality
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Old 09-05-2009, 04:13 AM #27
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Default Re: 200mW Wicked Lasers SPYDER I Pro Review

woaaa that is high average power for a <200mw!!

I think I am starting to think different about wicked lasers..
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Old 09-15-2009, 06:28 AM #28
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Default Re: 200mW Wicked Lasers SPYDER I Pro Review

Wow, I know I'm late to post, but reading this blew my mind. So much information. I want to review one of their lower class lasers <10mW - Something that is not so much frowned upon in Australia. Possibly their 5mW range of lasers.

Awesome review mate - + rep

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Old 09-23-2009, 12:42 PM #29
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Default Re: 200mW Wicked Lasers SPYDER I Pro Review

Nice review....but does it make scrambled eggs? I need a laser I can throw an egg onto and make me an Egg McMuffin. Other than that I'd have no use for it. Well...maybe my GF can use it. Her latex 12 inch Alabama Black Snake dilda is wearing out.
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