o-like does not sell green PEN. why?

Since those labbies were originally intended for projectors at light shows, and "rave clubs" operate until dawn, I can only assume that is a continuous duty cycle.

Now I have to email Chuck and ask..

Lab lasers are not actively cooled without a reason.
I just as might throw couple of cents here.

Jerry, let us not forget one thing that seperates your engine to diode comparison.

The diodes are proven to last much longer when less on/off cycles are used, meaning each turn-on has an effect on the diode and it's lifespan.
If you were to run one diode for 2 months without turning off at all (active cooling and all other obligatory things umentioned, but they are there) it can make it. One PHR was driven for 6 months here ,IIRC on this forum.

But, if you were to accumulate 2 months of operation with normal daily pointer use, I doupt you would make it.
When a current is pushed through the diode, it is preferable that it is done via soft start. Which is not the case in our hobby, nor in our interest, nor easy (enough) to make.

Conclusion: diodes last more if turned on indefinetly, rather then being turned on/off all the time.

Correct?

EDIT: let's also not forget the termal shock effect, when the diode is at room temp, (cold), and it is turned on, the chip die produces (if I am not mistaking), 120°C of heat, heating up the chip very fast since it is tiny.
It also degrades the diode by some degree.

Eudaimonium said:

Lab lasers are not actively cooled without a reason.
I just as might throw couple of cents here.

Jerry, let us not forget one thing that seperates your engine to diode comparison.

The diodes are proven to last much longer when less on/off cycles are used, meaning each turn-on has an effect on the diode and it's lifespan.
If you were to run one diode for 2 months without turning off at all (active cooling and all other obligatory things umentioned, but they are there) it can make it. One PHR was driven for 6 months here ,IIRC on this forum.

But, if you were to accumulate 2 months of operation with normal daily pointer use, I doupt you would make it.
When a current is pushed through the diode, it is preferable that it is done via soft start. Which is not the case in our hobby, nor in our interest, nor easy (enough) to make.

Conclusion: diodes last more if turned on indefinetly, rather then being turned on/off all the time.

Correct?

EDIT: let's also not forget the termal shock effect, when the diode is at room temp, (cold), and it is turned on, the chip die produces (if I am not mistaking), 120°C of heat, heating up the chip very fast since it is tiny.
It also degrades the diode by some degree.

Click to expand...

You are missing my point... I'm not saying that IC Engines and Laser
Diodes are the same...
I'm saying that for longevity the Manufacturer has specified
conditions of use to obtain that longevity in both cases...

Engines = "Normal Use"... "Max RPM"..."Periodic Preventive Maintenance"...
Etc.

Laser Diodes = "Max current"..."Duty Cycle"... "Heat Removal"... Etc.


I'm going to have to disagree with you on that....

Laser Diodes are not Incandescent (Filament) Light Bulbs...
Laser Diode spec Sheets in general give two power ratings...
1) CW or constant power output and...
2) Pulsed power output...

The Pulsed Power output is generally twice (2X) the power
output of the CW rating... meaning that ~twice the current
can be pumped into the Die at High frequency (turning OFF
and ON)... with la short ON Duty Cycle

Laser Diodes are designed to be pulsed or no CD or DVD Burner
would work...

Sorry but your conclusion doesn't hold water... IMHO...:cryyy:

Although I do agree that Slow Turn ON can be beneficial..
When turning on my Labbys I always ramp them up to the
Power I will be using for a Test... I have not yet damaged
a Labby LD in 2 years of doing this... and I'm running them
over their Power Ratings...


Jerry

Eudaimonium said:

150mW pen is the higgest real power achieved from pen style host...
Because of the batteries.

Click to expand...

This is not true, go ask styropyro about his X-200. I know it was putting out AT LEAST 170mW.

Also, Rayfoss sell many green pens, and they're pretty much the same as O-like.

lasersbee said:

You are missing my point... I'm not saying that IC Engines and Laser
Diodes are the same...
I'm saying that for longevity the Manufacturer has specified
conditions of use to obtain that longevity in both cases...

Engines = "Normal Use"... "Max RPM"..."Periodic Preventive Maintenance"...
Etc.

Laser Diodes = "Max current"..."Duty Cycle"... "Heat Removal"... Etc.


I'm going to have to disagree with you on that....

Laser Diodes are not Incandescent (Filament) Light Bulbs...
Laser Diode spec Sheets in general give two power ratings...
1) CW or constant power output and...
2) Pulsed power output...

The Pulsed Power output is generally twice (2X) the power
output of the CW rating... meaning that ~twice the current
can be pumped into the Die at High frequency (turning OFF
and ON)... with la short ON Duty Cycle

Laser Diodes are designed to be pulsed or no CD or DVD Burner
would work...

Sorry but your conclusion doesn't hold water... IMHO...:cryyy:

Although I do agree that Slow Turn ON can be beneficial..
When turning on my Labbys I always ramp them up to the
Power I will be using for a Test... I have not yet damaged
a Labby LD in 2 years of doing this... and I'm running them
over their Power Ratings...


Jerry

Click to expand...

But they are never pushed to their limits in CD and DVD driver, are they?
You said it yourself, PHR is rated at 40mW max power.
We push the 3x harder!

All I am saying is that with NORMALY and COMMON drivers used around these parts, turn on has a degree of effect on laser diode.

BTW, no need to tell me that LDs are not filament bulbs... as unbelivable as it may seem, I figured it out by myself

Also, you can see DVD and CD drives' diodes dying out on you in 2 years or less...
Pointers and general lasers that use diodes also last that long with same diodes overdriven by severeal hundred percent.
I mean, LOC diode pushed to 0.5 A?
It sure was not meant to be driven at that current.


Also, the Pulse mode you are talking about is generally achieved by drivers with good output filtering and capacitance, smoothing out the start as much as possible.

Right?

randomlugia said:

This is not true, go ask styropyro about his X-200. I know it was putting out AT LEAST 170mW.

Also, Rayfoss sell many green pens, and they're pretty much the same as O-like.

Click to expand...

Average Nd:xxx and KTP conversion efficiency is about 25%, which does not mean there cannot be higher (and lower ) efficiencies achieved, also, 170mW peak power is not uncommon, neither is 190mW peak in a pen laser, however max sustained power is rarely above 150-160 mW (heat, battery sagging etc.).

But I assure you that you will not see any 200mW sustained average power pens sold (up-to-spec) any time soon...

Eudaimonium said:

But they are never pushed to their limits in CD and DVD driver, are they?
You said it yourself, PHR is rated at 40mW max power.
We push the 3x harder!

All I am saying is that with NORMALY and COMMON drivers used around these parts, turn on has a degree of effect on laser diode.

BTW, no need to tell me that LDs are not filament bulbs... as unbelivable as it may seem, I figured it out by myself

Also, you can see DVD and CD drives' diodes dying out on you in 2 years or less...
Pointers and general lasers that use diodes also last that long with same diodes overdriven by severeal hundred percent.
I mean, LOC diode pushed to 0.5 A?
It sure was not meant to be driven at that current.


Also, the Pulse mode you are talking about is generally achieved by drivers with good output filtering and capacitance, smoothing out the start as much as possible.

Right?

Average Nd:xxx and KTP conversion efficiency is about 25%, which does not mean there cannot be higher (and lower ) efficiencies achieved, also, 170mW peak power is not uncommon, neither is 190mW peak in a pen laser, however max sustained power is rarely above 150-160 mW (heat, battery sagging etc.).

But I assure you that you will not see any 200mW sustained average power pens sold (up-to-spec) any time soon...

Click to expand...

Of course they are.... :wtf:
They are pushed to the LD Manufacturer's Data Sheet Limit... to assure
the end product (DVD Burner) lasts the longest acceptable time possible
without failure...
Pushing them higher than the LD Manufacture's Data Sheet specs will
void any guarantee the DVD Burner manufacturer has...

Only if an over Current/Voltage is applied.... proper filtering can take
care of that...

No I don't think you do... you still think that turning LDs ON and OFF at
high frequency will damage them....
They were designed to do that... That what DVD burners do...
Again in a DVD Burner the idea is to do a burn as fast as possible..
I can't see every Turn ON of the DVD LD being turned on slowly
smoothed out...

My comments above have to do with Laser Diodes used as intended by
the Manufacturer of the Laser Diodes... and the Fact that LDs ARE
rated to be Pulsed...
I would think the designer/Manufacturer would know better about the
required Max parameters of their LDs than either you or myself.

If you want to Drive your LDs or your Light Bulbs over the Manufactures
Max Ratings to get more energy out of them.... that is your choice...
Most of the Members do that here.... That what we do...:evil:

But you are off the mark stating that Laser Diodes degrade faster
by turning them ON and OFF. They do not act like Light Bulbs and
cause degradation by stressing the filament...
The problem is not the LD (if kept in specs)...
If there was a problem it would be with the Driver design... IMO


Jerry

I am kind of missing the point here...

The are driven at maximum performance rated my manufacturer. What manufacturer says that PHR is capable of 100mW output?
We are driving them that high, no?

Burning as fast as possible in drives is achieved by using even more powerfull diodes, not driving them higher.

Umm, it kind of looks like that this friendly arguement we are having is pretty much pointless...

I still am convinced that turning on/off diode (complete cutoff) is taking it's tax out of diode's life time... I read it on this forum for Christ sakes'

But, if you say that they do not, I have no choice than to agree with you... that is both good news and bad news:
Bad news: I lost the debate
Good news: My lasers live longer with shorter duty cycles and contact clicking on/off (pen style ones ... you know )

You thinz teh lite bulbs are not affected? Well, is OK!

Eudaimonium said:

Average Nd:xxx and KTP conversion efficiency is about 25%, which does not mean there cannot be higher (and lower ) efficiencies achieved, also, 170mW peak power is not uncommon, neither is 190mW peak in a pen laser, however max sustained power is rarely above 150-160 mW (heat, battery sagging etc.).

Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that laser was 171mW sustained average.

randomlugia said:

I'm pretty sure that laser was 171mW sustained average.

Click to expand...

Hence the 'rarely' word in my post... and a drool in my mouth right now, DAMN that is one helluva good laser, eh?

Optos pens are above 160mW average I think.

Eudaimonium said:

Burning as fast as possible in drives is achieved by using even more powerfull diodes, not driving them higher.

Bad news: I lost the debate

Click to expand...

Excactly....

You lost nothing... there was no debate...
it was merely an exchange of ideas and information...

Jerry

lasersbee said:

Excactly....

You lost nothing... there was no debate...
it was merely an exchange of ideas and information...

Jerry

Click to expand...

I love this forum, all friendly and knowledgeable people here like you Jerry! :beer:

can you visit my thread? http://laserpointerforums.com/f41/complete-list-online-stores-pros-cons-tested-not-lasers-49009.html

i would have the help of the best members

I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet, but O-like is now listing a 150mW green pen in what appears to be the same host as their 50mW model: 150mW Silver chrome green laser pointer [OLSGL150] - $94.99 : O-Like, Quality Products, Great Prices

yes..... it appeared into the shop just 2 or 3 days ago.... mmhhh... but there is no guarantee that this pen use the same module 120/150mw. i don't think that this pen use the same module..........