Old 11-28-2011, 08:50 PM #49
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Default Re: My laser device

As rhd pointed out earlier, I am not Bill Gates. Designing a custom LiOn battery holder and pack and would cost thousands and then I would have to produce thousands of units to make the whole thing worthwhile. While the economics of scale do wonders for putting that cheap Android in your pocket, they just can't be applied to every project.

They don't apply to this one. There is no network of micro-transactions I can set up here that would justify losing money on the sale of hardware just to get customers to buy in to my product (and therefor be locked into buying my music downloads later). I would be truly astonished if I sold 1000 of these, even if I marked down the price and sold them at a loss. This product would hardly have any appeal if you could find it in every other home across suburbia.

If I designed a custom LiPo pack I would have to sell at least 1000 to recover development costs. NiMh batteries are far more customizable, and I'm already finding that I need different voltages for different lasers. With NiMh I can just double the number of cells to double the voltage, if I did that to LiPo batteries they would no longer be secure and would once again become an explosion risk.. unless I somehow designed a harness that would take more than one battery or something.

Anyway, all that building and design would be R&D and it would have a cost. You have both already expressed your extreme distaste for any costs aside from (half of) the raw cost of parts, so why would you want a LiOn cell? Is it just trying to have your cake and eat it too or is it just because you are personally more familiar with LiOn?

I've looked around and it's hard to find a premade LiOn pack that outputs less than 7v. Those battery shaped ones that you use would be an explosion risk in this environment, and if I was to put them in a hard protective case that had a built in low power cutoff they could easily become too large to use and then I might as well go back to square one.


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Old 11-28-2011, 09:04 PM #50
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Default Re: My laser device

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Originally Posted by Ablaze View Post
As rhd pointed out earlier, I am not Bill Gates. Designing a custom LiOn battery holder and pack and would cost thousands and then I would have to produce thousands of units to make the whole thing worthwhile. While the economics of scale do wonders for putting that cheap Android in your pocket, they just can't be applied to every project.

They don't apply to this one. There is no network of micro-transactions I can set up here that would justify losing money on the sale of hardware just to get customers to buy in to my product (and therefor be locked into buying my music downloads later). I would be truly astonished if I sold 1000 of these, even if I marked down the price and sold them at a loss. This product would hardly have any appeal if you could find it in every other home across suburbia.

If I designed a custom LiPo pack I would have to sell at least 1000 to recover development costs. NiMh batteries are far more customizable, and I'm already finding that I need different voltages for different lasers. With NiMh I can just double the number of cells to double the voltage, if I did that to LiPo batteries they would no longer be secure and would once again become an explosion risk.. unless I somehow designed a harness that would take more than one battery or something.

Anyway, all that building and design would be R&D and it would have a cost. You have both already expressed your extreme distaste for any costs aside from (half of) the raw cost of parts, so why would you want a LiOn cell? Is it just trying to have your cake and eat it too or is it just because you are personally more familiar with LiOn?

I've looked around and it's hard to find a premade LiOn pack that outputs less than 7v. Those battery shaped ones that you use would be an explosion risk in this environment, and if I was to put them in a hard protective case that had a built in low power cutoff they could easily become too large to use and then I might as well go back to square one.
No one expects you to design a new battery pack. You also don't need to design a low voltage cutoff circuit...

You're taking the criticism from us far too personally. I want you to come up with a good product at a good price because I like the idea. ALOT.

I'm sure rhd does too.

Now as far as the batteries are concerned... AW 18650 Protected 2900 mAh Rechargeable Lithium Battery

Or a smaller variety, like say the 14500

Put it in a small plastic case, drill through two holes, add a bit of padding, and you have an environment that's equivalent to, or better than the body of a flashlight.

I mean how impact resistant do you need these to be? You can easily achieve the same level of survivability for these battery packs, as you would find with cell phones. At the same time you can most likely cut down on your costs, reduce weight, and reduce size.
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:41 PM #51
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Default Re: My laser device

i think ablaze is taking things too far i have read the entire thread...fact is a battery is not 1000s in research a big rc helicopter batt would work fine if these things are getting crushed i think we should wonder what the user is doing....
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:55 PM #52
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Default Re: My laser device

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i think ablaze is taking things too far i have read the entire thread...fact is a battery is not 1000s in research a big rc helicopter batt would work fine if these things are getting crushed i think we should wonder what the user is doing....
Some of his concern is certainly valid where, safety and durability are concerned. I'm not at all disputing or criticizing that.

I think it comes down to a balance. IMO using a small plastic case with existing lion batteries would be more than adequate.

These are not going into a war zone... at most they have to survive in the same environment as a cell phone.

A dance floor and especially a mosh pit can be a very harsh environment, but then again, the cheap green modules in the current build would die from shock/impact long before a good battery in a case.
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:58 PM #53
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Default Re: My laser device

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Some of his concern is certainly valid where, safety and durability are concerned. I'm not at all disputing or criticizing that.

I think it comes down to a balance. IMO using a small plastic case with existing lion batteries would be more than adequate.

These are not going into a war zone... at most they have to survive in the same environment as a cell phone.

A dance floor and especially a mosh pit can be a very harsh environment, but then again, the cheap green modules in the current build would die from shock/impact long before a good battery in a case.
that's what i was sayin your phone has a lion pack in it thats exposed to the same thing and your phone is not a tank......
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Old 11-28-2011, 10:07 PM #54
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Default Re: My laser device

That does look like a good battery. It sure is expensive though! My three cell NiMh packs cost me $4, and then the plug, velcro strap, and rubber coating bring it up to around $10 for materials (not including labor). That thing starts at $18.50, although perhaps if I went to the manufacturer it would cost less. I'll consider your battery, and see if I can make it work if I ever get to version 2.0.

There are three points of view that I battle with these:

1) That 10 lasers at 5mw should cost about as much as 1 laser at 50mw.
2) That having these lasers point at you will cause all kinds of damage (blindness, cancer...)
3) That these are a cat or dog toy. On the rare occasions where a cat or dog does anything but watch these they quickly get bored. 10 dots are just too many, and when that is someone's expectation these are a disappointment.


I hadn't intended to start this thread to talk about prices.. I don't know what I intended.

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Old 11-28-2011, 10:41 PM #55
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Default Re: My laser device

I linked to the most expensive battery... so you can definitely find a cheaper one, or even from the same line, one that has a lower mAh rating is much cheaper.

Using a smaller battery, not 18650 would drop the price a bit too.

About the modules, have you tried contact Max and Lazerer, Susie at o-like or Faona at rayfoss?

You can also try Gray at jetlasers, CNI, Justin at Laserglow, although they will be more expensive...

Considering you need a large quantity, you should be able to get a better deal.

5mW IR filtered should be the threshold, unless you're looking to use diffraction tips, which could produce hundreds of dots, and will produce hundreds of beams in a smoke filled room...

You would also reduce the safety concern significantly.

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Old 11-28-2011, 11:20 PM #56
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Default Re: My laser device

No, I haven't tried to contact those people. Classical wisdom says that a retailer charges more than a wholesaler. Additionally, the lasers I am using are much more specific than laser pens. However, I will try to find contact information for those people once finals are over and I have some free time again. Thanks for the lead.
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Old 11-28-2011, 11:53 PM #57
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Default Re: My laser device

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No, I haven't tried to contact those people. Classical wisdom says that a retailer charges more than a wholesaler. Additionally, the lasers I am using are much more specific than laser pens. However, I will try to find contact information for those people once finals are over and I have some free time again. Thanks for the lead.
That might be part of the problem. If you the module inside the housing yourself it could cut down on the price too.

TBH they don't look like anything special from what you posted so far.
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Old 11-29-2011, 12:38 AM #58
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Default Re: My laser device

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If you put the module inside the housing yourself it could cut down on the price too.
I doubt it. Maybe if I worked for free. I figure they're charging about $4 per unit to put it in the housing, do basic tests, and ship them. I doubt I could get the empty housing for less than $2, and I sincerely doubt I could assemble them in less than 5 minutes. I already put my own layer of protection and strain relief on top of what is there.

I'm trying to cut down on the build time. Not really looking for more tasks to do myself.
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Old 11-29-2011, 12:54 AM #59
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Default Re: My laser device

well to TBH how reliable really is your "supplier" they ripped you of for over 100$ on a so called 470nm laser and they asked you if you wanted a UV filter on it when a single mode 445 doesn't produce UV.
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Old 11-29-2011, 01:02 AM #60
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Default Re: My laser device

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well to TBH how reliable really is your "supplier" they ripped you of for over 100$ on a so called 470nm laser and they asked you if you wanted a UV filter on it when a single mode 445 doesn't produce UV.
Neither does a multimode...

Either way, it shows that the supplier is;

a. Lying.

or

b. Incompetent.

Either means a better source is needed.
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Old 11-29-2011, 01:10 AM #61
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Default Re: My laser device

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Neither does a multimode...

Either way, it shows that the supplier is;

a. Lying.

or

b. Incompetent.

Either means a better source is needed.
i knew that ~445 is emitted nothing else i was just saying that because that is the diode he got. if he is still using his so called "supplier" i don't understand why.

ablaze do you own a lpm? these modules could come in dangerously over spec causing safety problems. if they offer you a uv filter and a fake 470nm diode i doubt they have any clue what they are doing.
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Old 11-29-2011, 01:39 AM #62
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Default Re: My laser device

Earlier in the thread it is mentioned that the newer "ir filtered" modules appear brighter than the older 10mW unfiltered ones.

That could be the case, but again calls into serious question the module quality. Usually 10mW of unfiltered would still appear brighter since IR content is typically between 0 and 40% on greens.
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Old 11-29-2011, 01:49 AM #63
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Default Re: My laser device

Just a question, has anyone mounted one on a shark yet? Real or fake sharks with fircken lasers are awesome! Bwahaha
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Old 11-29-2011, 01:55 AM #64
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Default Re: My laser device

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
Earlier in the thread it is mentioned that the newer "ir filtered" modules appear brighter than the older 10mW unfiltered ones.

That could be the case, but again calls into serious question the module quality. Usually 10mW of unfiltered would still appear brighter since IR content is typically between 0 and 40% on greens.
exactly thats why im worried a company or wholesaler with this track record doesnt give me the impression that these are quality modules.

laserglow would be another story and would make the price seem more reasonable.
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