Old 10-30-2011, 02:36 PM #17
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Default Re: My laser device

Make a jacket one and ebay it for huge profit!

edit: crap


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Old 10-30-2011, 10:59 PM #18
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Default Re: My laser device

lol, that guy looks like some sort of star. (you embedded your video incorrectly magma, here it is


The thing is, while a jacket may be neat for about 5 minutes, after that time it's just another kind of bling. These lasers.. well they have a lasting appeal. I'll post a vid of me dancing with the lasers in a few hours once I finish editing it.
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Old 10-31-2011, 01:32 AM #19
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Default Re: My laser device

Ok, here's a video of me showing these babies off. This time it really is me in the picture

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Old 11-25-2011, 07:47 AM #20
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Default Re: My laser device

These look cool!

But I just about had a heart attack when I saw MSRP of $899 !

Ten 5mW 532 modules, a battery back, and a reed switch clock in at under $100. I realize that profit comes in to play, but you're looking at $100 to $150 max in cost. What's the other $750 going towards?!?

I think you may need to massively re-think your price point. Cool as these are, if someone else can build and sell your idea for a quarter of the price and still make a profit, you've got a bad business plan. That's business 101.
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Old 11-25-2011, 08:32 AM #21
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Default Re: My laser device

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Ten 5mW 532 modules, a battery back, and a reed switch clock in at under $100. I realize that profit comes in to play, but you're looking at $100 to $150 max in cost. What's the other $750 going towards?!?

I think you may need to massively re-think your price point. Cool as these are, if someone else can build and sell your idea for a quarter of the price and still make a profit, you've got a bad business plan. That's business 101.
Do it. Buy 10 532nm modules for under $10 each. Budget $0 for a set of gloves and $0 for a battery charger. Then take your dirt cheap green modules and tie them on with string to your fingers. What have you got now?

Kind of an interesting costume, a lot like that laser star in the video up there. Certainly nothing you would want to sell.. and defiantly nothing you would want to warranty in any way.

I've made several other sets over the years. I even made a green set on a budget of $150. It broke after 6 hours. I soldered it back together and it just broke again the next night. A friend of mine made a set and the battery pack exploded in his pocket.

You don't find quality at the 99 cent store. If you're a 99 cent store kind of guy then go ahead and make a set. You won't be competing with me though.. you'll be competing with those other cheap sets I linked to. You know, the ones with reviews like "I just took them out of the box and the glue is already starting to come undone." That is what I call a bad business plan.

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Old 11-25-2011, 09:31 AM #22
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Default Re: My laser device

$899? I missed that before
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Old 11-25-2011, 02:34 PM #23
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Default Re: My laser device

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You don't find quality at the 99 cent store. If you're a 99 cent store kind of guy then go ahead and make a set. You won't be competing with me though.. you'll be competing with those other cheap sets I linked to. You know, the ones with reviews like "I just took them out of the box and the glue is already starting to come undone." That is what I call a bad business plan.
That's a pretty stupid kind of thing to say.

I don't understand why you think a $150 budget for ten 5mW modules a battery pack, and gloves, would require going to "the 99 cent store".

Maybe your previous lack of success has more to do with your soldering, or perhaps your usage of the batteries.

I won't speak for others, but I could make this for $150 in cost without quality concerns. It's not like your $899 price tag is coming from your election to use CNI modules. You're using cheap China DPSS.

I'm not interested in competing with you. I don't go to raves or clubs, and I wouldn't have any clue who to sell something like this to. I'm also not interested in whether you follow my advice or not. But it's out there, on the record. If you think $899 is the right price point for this, you're crazy. If you think you can't make a quality version of this concept without charging that much, you're even crazier.
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Old 11-25-2011, 02:41 PM #24
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Default Re: My laser device



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Old 11-25-2011, 05:37 PM #25
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Default Re: My laser device

I think these are an awesome idea, and said so earlier in the thread...

The price point is problematic though.

I would LOVE to have a set of gloves like this, that can also accept diffraction tips... but I can't see spending more than around $300 on the project. Maybe a tad more, but definitely not the $899.

That said, what you guys might have missed (rhd, Ghostcrome) is that chances are Ablaze's customers are the same kind of guys that spend $300 a bottle+ at clubs. So in his case the price point might make sense because of the rather ignorant customer base.
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Old 11-25-2011, 05:56 PM #26
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Default Re: My laser device

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Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
That said, what you guys might have missed (rhd, Ghostcrome) is that chances are Ablaze's customers are the same kind of guys that spend $300 a bottle+ at clubs. So in his case the price point might make sense because of the rather ignorant customer base.
Except that he already pointed out that these things already exist for $99. The argument put forward in defense of $899 vs $99 (an 800% price premium) is that the quality of the laser components will be higher with this $899 product vs. the $99 versions that exist now.

Unfortunately, that's an argument that primarily resonates with laser enthusiasts - and those aren't the people who would buy this from you for $899. You can say "Hey, I'm using an under-driven IR diode, and larger than necessary crystals in my DPSS modules, with protected lithium ions" and forum members might say "Great! That's a lot better than direct driving some cheap red diodes with a resistor and NiMH batteries!"

But that's not something your average Joe club-goer, who buys $300 bottles of XYZ and wants to look cool, will understand. What you might get, if you're lucky, is "Hey, green instead of red, I'll pay a bit more for that!". But the quality nuances of using one module type versus another, will be lost on the target market that you're counting on to buy these for $899 instead of $99.

To complicate matters further:
- If you did manage to interest someone who understood lasers enough to appreciate your technical quality arguments, they'd also be smart enough to realize that your price is almost 5 times the cost.

And even worse:
- Back to my original point. If somehow these DID become uber popular amongst those $300 bottle-buying folk, at your $899 MSRP, someone else will just jump in on the idea fast. They'll say "look, that dude is selling $150 worth of parts for $900 bucks! I'll sell the same thing for $250 and clean up!". And that's if the person who notices is another North American buying the parts from China for $150. If China itself notices, they'll make this thing for $75, sell it for $125, and really clean up, selling them below your actual cost.

Hence the return to business 101. If someone else can clone your product with minimal effort, and profitably sell it for a quarter of your price, your business plan is flawed.
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Old 11-25-2011, 08:32 PM #27
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Default Re: My laser device

I agree with what you're saying rhd.

The only area where I don't entirely agree is with regards to the clientele.

If Ablaze is charging $899 for these, and able to sell them at that price, then IMO for him it's a great price point.
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Old 11-25-2011, 08:35 PM #28
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Default Re: My laser device

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If Ablaze is charging $899 for these, and able to sell them at that price, then IMO for him it's a great price point.
Well yes - I agree totally

But A) I don't think he'll be able to, and B) if he is, someone else will jump in and sell to that same clientelle for half or a third of his "MSPR". So if he's feeling like he needs to hit $899 per unit to make the business work, he's going to be in for trouble IF he is successful, because he won't be able to price compete when someone clones it for far less.

I guess what I'm really getting at, behind all the business-case jargon, is "why the hell are you thinking you NEED to charge $899?" What are the mysterious costs here?
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Old 11-25-2011, 09:05 PM #29
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Default Re: My laser device

It's easy to imagine you could make things for cheaper rhd, but as I tried to tell you: If you buy crap and put in a glove the end product sucks. It's not at all like laser pens.

Currently it leaves me with 18% profit margin. Considering that I plan to offer up to 10% to distributors and/or coupons that leaves me with a cool 8% in cold, hard profits.

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Old 11-25-2011, 09:10 PM #30
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Default Re: My laser device

15 hours per set of assembly

Also those don't look like cni modules... so I'm wondering why your material costs are so high.
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Old 11-25-2011, 09:29 PM #31
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Default Re: My laser device

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It's easy to imagine you could make things for cheaper rhd, but as I tried to tell you: If you buy crap and put in a glove the end product sucks. It's not at all like laser pens.

Currently it costs ~$300 in parts per set. Each set requires ~15 hours of assembly time. For amortized r&d costs we can cut corners and simply add $20. Marketing and legal cost a bit more, but lets factor that on the cheap as well and call it $40. At this point I don't know the cost of warranty service, but I'm estimating ~$100 per set.

So this leaves me with 18% profit margin. Considering that I plan to offer up to 10% to distributors and/or coupons that leaves me with a cool 8% in cold, hard profits.
With respect, I don't think you have a vary accurate sense of what's crap and what isn't. Those 532 "enclosed modules" that you're buying from your supplier (like the ones in the photo) are just housings with the same cheap chinese 532nm DPSS components inside. I realize that your supplier is telling you that they "custom build" these modules for you. But, well, they don't. The modules in your photo are generic 532nm modules like the ones sold by BobLaser, tens of thousands produced every week. Very very "not custom". (Example - Check it Out)

What you call "quality" instead of "crap" is really just "someone else putting the DPSS modules into a housing for you". Inside, it's the same thing. If you're really paying $300 for those parts, you're getting hosed.

Just trying to help - seriously. I'm critical, because I think you have a cool idea that might fail because of the approach you're taking. Taking you at your word, you're paying $300 for parts that truly have minimal quality benefit above something that would cost half as much. If you truly need to charge $899 to make 8% in profits, then you're designing this thing wrong. Cut your costs, use reliable but less expensive parts, and figure out how to make the units in less than 15 hours. This could be really successful, and I'm not trying to poo-poo your idea. I simply think you'd have a better shot at success if you took some of this advice to heart.
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Last edited by rhd; 11-25-2011 at 09:30 PM.
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Old 11-25-2011, 09:29 PM #32
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Default Re: My laser device

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
15 hours per set of assembly

Also those don't look like cni modules... so I'm wondering why your material costs are so high.
If it took me 15 hours to build... the labor costs alone
would be $1650.00. Luckily I don't need to add $150/hr
R&D costs to that...

I don't really see a problem for him to sell this unique item
at ANY price he wants.
The marketplace will let him know if the price is too high
or not by the sales alone.

I can't understand the mentality of some of the Forum
community (as I've seen many times on the Forum before)
to feel that they are entitled to get everything at bare material
costs. There are many other non seen... but obviously there...
costs to putting a product on the market.

I personally don't want one so I just go elsewhere for my
needs rather than complaining and needing a detailed account
of every last cent of the selling price... (which IMO is no-one's
business but the seller)...


Jerry
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Last edited by lasersbee; 11-25-2011 at 09:30 PM. Reason: Spelling errors
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