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04-03-2017, 10:48 AM #17
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Re: Which laser goes the furthest? A response...

Yea, been working with frequency and wavelength most of my carrier as a RF tech/engineer, but for lasers we don't use frequency, we use wavelength. The number is too long if using frequency when talking about different colors of light.

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Attention new brothers of the collimated light!

Newbie advice: Please take the time to first make an introduction in the Welcome section before posting questions: - https://laserpointerforums.com/f37

Divergence to spot size calc: - 1 mRad is about .057 degrees which expands to be very roughly ~10% the diameter of the moon or sun at their distances.

Divergence Calculator: pseudonomen137's JScript mRad Calculator - Measure your lasers beam dia. at 1 foot & then 20'.

Online calc. to determine spot intensity at different mRad's & powers: http://tinyurl.com/divergence-calculator

Laser Power Density Calculator: Laser Power Density Calculator - Ophir

Build a beam expander to reduce divergence: http://tinyurl.com/BeamExpander

University YAG Project The Professor's Homebuilt Lasers Site - YAG Lasers

YAG Power Calc. Laser Peak Power Calculator - Ophir

Angular Size Calculator; use with diode angle of radiation spec. for lens dia. at FL: Angular Size Calculator

RHD's Calc: http://lsrtools.1apps.com/RelativeBr...&useRaleigh=on

High Current Pulse Drivers: https://tinyurl.com/ya7whuk3

04-03-2017, 10:53 AM #18
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CurtisOliver
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Re: Which laser goes the furthest? A response...

I had a feeling that was why, as I know you deal with RF very frequently. That explains it.
__________________
Notable products/sites:

Jet Lasers offers various high quality Diode/DPSS Portables in their PL-E Pro hosts. Jet Lasers are known for their quality and are respected on LPF.
Jetlasers PLE Pro's

Dragon Lasers offers the best option for 589nm (Yellow) Laser pointers.
Dragon Lasers Yellow Laser Pointers

Sanwu are known to be very high quality and every newcomer should check them out.
Sanwu Home

Bang good is a good source for many electrical items and are often cheap and reliable.
Bang Good Home

For reliable safety goggles visit Survival Laser. Use LPF445 for a 10% member discount.
Eagle Pair Safety Goggles

Which company should I buy from? By Sta

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Wavelength to RGB Converter

04-03-2017, 11:59 AM #19
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Re: Which laser goes the furthest? A response...

Guys, just one more information to add - if you think about the frequency of light, it is better option (however a bit inconvenient compared to nm) - just because its relevance to photon energy. If you consider wavelength, you have to specify in which medium the EM radiation is moving - the speed of light depends on it and therefore wavelength as well - assuming no change in frequency. As conclusion - the wavelength in vacuum would be slightly longer than in air and also from material of your eye, but you would not notice it because you are looking via your eye and also air layer has to be between it and some other environment - just try to focus in water without goggles - impossible.
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Last edited by Radim; 04-03-2017 at 12:09 PM.

04-03-2017, 12:06 PM #20
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steve001
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Re: Which laser goes the furthest? A response...

I'm certain how far a laser will go depends entirely how good ones throwing arm is. I think it's safe to say the typical pen style laser would travel farther do to lesser mass than the Hercules style laser for comparison. If anyone asks this question again, I will direct them to this post.

Last edited by steve001; 04-03-2017 at 12:41 PM.

04-03-2017, 12:31 PM #21
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Re: Which laser goes the furthest? A response...

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Alaskan Aha, another variable, whether viewing in the dark or not, the peak wavelength shifts down to a slightly longer wavelength for scotopic vision, when your eyes have adjusted to the darkness. That would shift the peak sensitivity down and make the red wavelengths a bit more sensitive to our eyes, but the blue worse. I forgot about this, question is, when viewing a powerful laser beam in the dark, does it shift your vision out of scotopic?
Scotopic sensitivity equals blue light, shorter wavelengths

Scotopic sensitivity only applies to ambient natural lighting. There is no red light available under natural scotopic ambient conditions. A comparison of natural light vs. articial is not applicable because the number of photons entering the eyes is much less than would enter ones eyes from a red light source. If comparing two sources of artificial light blue and red equidistant from the peak of 555nm the one which appears brighter depends on the output. If the outputs are equal they will be equally bright. There is a chart at Sam's Laser FAQ showing the relative brightness at various wavelenghts.

04-03-2017, 12:46 PM #22
 Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Qatar, land of the melted. Posts: 9,502 Rep Power: 1658920
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Re: Which laser goes the furthest? A response...

What do you think of this calculator? Relative Laser Beam Brightness Calculator: (569nm 1mw) vs. (617nm 1mw)
__________________

Attention new brothers of the collimated light!

Newbie advice: Please take the time to first make an introduction in the Welcome section before posting questions: - https://laserpointerforums.com/f37

Divergence to spot size calc: - 1 mRad is about .057 degrees which expands to be very roughly ~10% the diameter of the moon or sun at their distances.

Divergence Calculator: pseudonomen137's JScript mRad Calculator - Measure your lasers beam dia. at 1 foot & then 20'.

Online calc. to determine spot intensity at different mRad's & powers: http://tinyurl.com/divergence-calculator

Laser Power Density Calculator: Laser Power Density Calculator - Ophir

Build a beam expander to reduce divergence: http://tinyurl.com/BeamExpander

University YAG Project The Professor's Homebuilt Lasers Site - YAG Lasers

YAG Power Calc. Laser Peak Power Calculator - Ophir

Angular Size Calculator; use with diode angle of radiation spec. for lens dia. at FL: Angular Size Calculator

RHD's Calc: http://lsrtools.1apps.com/RelativeBr...&useRaleigh=on

High Current Pulse Drivers: https://tinyurl.com/ya7whuk3

04-03-2017, 12:51 PM #23
 Class 3B Laser Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Brentwood, England (Near London) Posts: 4,578 Rep Power: 1641482
CurtisOliver
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Re: Which laser goes the furthest? A response...

I use it occasionally to do quick checks, but I do believe it to be far too harsh on the blue however.
__________________
Notable products/sites:

Jet Lasers offers various high quality Diode/DPSS Portables in their PL-E Pro hosts. Jet Lasers are known for their quality and are respected on LPF.
Jetlasers PLE Pro's

Dragon Lasers offers the best option for 589nm (Yellow) Laser pointers.
Dragon Lasers Yellow Laser Pointers

Sanwu are known to be very high quality and every newcomer should check them out.
Sanwu Home

Bang good is a good source for many electrical items and are often cheap and reliable.
Bang Good Home

For reliable safety goggles visit Survival Laser. Use LPF445 for a 10% member discount.
Eagle Pair Safety Goggles

Which company should I buy from? By Sta

Use this link if you want the chance of winning free bitcoin.
Every hour you can roll for some free satoshi which you can then spend on lottery tickets.
Lotteries are weekly and often see >1 BTC prize totals worth around \$10,000.
It doesn't cost you anything and you could end up winning big, meaning you could have more money for lasers.

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Wavelength to RGB Converter

04-03-2017, 01:45 PM #24
 Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Qatar, land of the melted. Posts: 9,502 Rep Power: 1658920
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Re: Which laser goes the furthest? A response...

Well, that makes sense, my own observations confirm that.
__________________

Attention new brothers of the collimated light!

Newbie advice: Please take the time to first make an introduction in the Welcome section before posting questions: - https://laserpointerforums.com/f37

Divergence to spot size calc: - 1 mRad is about .057 degrees which expands to be very roughly ~10% the diameter of the moon or sun at their distances.

Divergence Calculator: pseudonomen137's JScript mRad Calculator - Measure your lasers beam dia. at 1 foot & then 20'.

Online calc. to determine spot intensity at different mRad's & powers: http://tinyurl.com/divergence-calculator

Laser Power Density Calculator: Laser Power Density Calculator - Ophir

Build a beam expander to reduce divergence: http://tinyurl.com/BeamExpander

University YAG Project The Professor's Homebuilt Lasers Site - YAG Lasers

YAG Power Calc. Laser Peak Power Calculator - Ophir

Angular Size Calculator; use with diode angle of radiation spec. for lens dia. at FL: Angular Size Calculator

RHD's Calc: http://lsrtools.1apps.com/RelativeBr...&useRaleigh=on

High Current Pulse Drivers: https://tinyurl.com/ya7whuk3

04-03-2017, 01:49 PM #25
 Class 3B Laser Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Brentwood, England (Near London) Posts: 4,578 Rep Power: 1641482
CurtisOliver
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Re: Which laser goes the furthest? A response...

Yes, however it is actually very difficult to create a calculator that is spot on.
__________________
Notable products/sites:

Jet Lasers offers various high quality Diode/DPSS Portables in their PL-E Pro hosts. Jet Lasers are known for their quality and are respected on LPF.
Jetlasers PLE Pro's

Dragon Lasers offers the best option for 589nm (Yellow) Laser pointers.
Dragon Lasers Yellow Laser Pointers

Sanwu are known to be very high quality and every newcomer should check them out.
Sanwu Home

Bang good is a good source for many electrical items and are often cheap and reliable.
Bang Good Home

For reliable safety goggles visit Survival Laser. Use LPF445 for a 10% member discount.
Eagle Pair Safety Goggles

Which company should I buy from? By Sta

Use this link if you want the chance of winning free bitcoin.
Every hour you can roll for some free satoshi which you can then spend on lottery tickets.
Lotteries are weekly and often see >1 BTC prize totals worth around \$10,000.
It doesn't cost you anything and you could end up winning big, meaning you could have more money for lasers.

Free Bitcoin Lottery

Wavelength to RGB Converter

04-03-2017, 09:17 PM #26
 Class 4 Laser Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Washington State Posts: 8,827 Rep Power: 1678339
paul1598419
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Re: Which laser goes the furthest? A response...

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Alaskan Yea, been working with frequency and wavelength most of my carrier as a RF tech/engineer, but for lasers we don't use frequency, we use wavelength. The number is too long if using frequency when talking about different colors of light.
IDK, as the light from a 532nm laser is actually 563.5 THz. Not really such a big number as 532nm is as much a small number.
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Thor H Dual Power 445nm, 438 mW & 1648 mW
445nm 3 watts MS-SSW-II
445nm 2.2 watts Nichia MS Envy

473nm 50 mW BWB-10-OEM DPSS
477nm 127 mW 501B
488nm Uniphase #2201-20SLAT argon laser head and power supply >40mW
493nm 120 mW 501B
520nm LaserLands pointer Measures 510nm
532nm LSR532H-1W Laser, LSR-PS-N1 Driver, RS-75-5 P.S. 1300 mW
532nm 200mW Thermostatically Controlled Fan Cooled (Besram) >230mW
532nm 189mW pocket lab laser
532nm lasers X6 100mW-200mW
532nm lasers X4 75mW- 140mW
632.8nm P210 New Laser Tube 0.57mW Melles Griot 05-LMP-827-037 PS
632.8nm Spectra- Physics He- Ne #102-2 4mW heads X2 and #236 power supply
632.8nm PMS He-Ne # 201P/ LPS-115 2mW
632.8nm Siemens HeNe LGK7630S 7.6mW
638nm 1 watt Cyprus II
635nm 5mW pointer
635nm 100mW pointer
650nm 65mW pointer
650nm 380mW 501B
808nm 1+W infrared laser
Ocean Optics USB2000 Spectrometer
B&W TEK BTC100 Spectrometers X3
Scientech Vector S310 with AC2500 10 Watt LPM/ Hyperion 6 Watt & 20 Watt LPM/ Radiant X4 3.7 Watt LPM

04-04-2017, 01:22 AM #27
 Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Qatar, land of the melted. Posts: 9,502 Rep Power: 1658920
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Re: Which laser goes the furthest? A response...

If you use THz, that makes it easy, but because I'm an RF technician, I am used to seeing the number expressed to at least the last KHz, which really is a gross number for our use in that spectrum, RF frequencies are often expressed to the cycle for equipment calibrations. That said, it would be silly to express the frequency of light down to the last cycle or Hertz, or even MHz, we don't use it that way.
__________________

Attention new brothers of the collimated light!

Newbie advice: Please take the time to first make an introduction in the Welcome section before posting questions: - https://laserpointerforums.com/f37

Divergence to spot size calc: - 1 mRad is about .057 degrees which expands to be very roughly ~10% the diameter of the moon or sun at their distances.

Divergence Calculator: pseudonomen137's JScript mRad Calculator - Measure your lasers beam dia. at 1 foot & then 20'.

Online calc. to determine spot intensity at different mRad's & powers: http://tinyurl.com/divergence-calculator

Laser Power Density Calculator: Laser Power Density Calculator - Ophir

Build a beam expander to reduce divergence: http://tinyurl.com/BeamExpander

University YAG Project The Professor's Homebuilt Lasers Site - YAG Lasers

YAG Power Calc. Laser Peak Power Calculator - Ophir

Angular Size Calculator; use with diode angle of radiation spec. for lens dia. at FL: Angular Size Calculator

RHD's Calc: http://lsrtools.1apps.com/RelativeBr...&useRaleigh=on

High Current Pulse Drivers: https://tinyurl.com/ya7whuk3

Last edited by Alaskan; 04-04-2017 at 01:41 AM.

04-26-2017, 11:49 PM #28
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Re: Which laser goes the furthest? A response...

I haven't posted in a while, but this topic is relevant to a purchase decision I was trying to make. I was on the Sanwu Lasers Challenger II page and was trying to chose between getting 470nm@4W or 520nm@1W. I ended up getting the 470nm@4W laser, as I was going to use the laser mostly at night and I knew that our sensitivity shifted a bit to the shorter wavelengths in low light. I figured the blue one would appear brighter. However, according to the calculator, it's still only 77% as bright compared to the green. You said it's "too harsh on blue power," does that mean the blue might have a higher percentage in comparison?

04-27-2017, 12:26 AM #29
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steve001
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Re: Which laser goes the furthest? A response...

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Khoonda I haven't posted in a while, but this topic is relevant to a purchase decision I was trying to make. I was on the Sanwu Lasers Challenger II page and was trying to chose between getting 470nm@4W or 520nm@1W. I ended up getting the 470nm@4W laser, as I was going to use the laser mostly at night and I knew that our sensitivity shifted a bit to the shorter wavelengths in low light. I figured the blue one would appear brighter. However, according to the calculator, it's still only 77% as bright compared to the green. You said it's "too harsh on blue power," does that mean the blue might have a higher percentage in comparison?
You are correct to a point, the caveat is this applies strictly to natural light like what occurs at twilight or pre-dawn. When comparing artificial light you should have chosen green.

Last edited by steve001; 04-27-2017 at 12:42 AM.

04-27-2017, 12:39 AM #30
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Re: Which laser goes the furthest? A response...

I've compared that amount of power close to 470 nm with 1.3 watts of 520 nm green into the night sky and I found it was difficult to discern which to call brighter (edit: Beam, not spot), but I liked that shade of blue more. Maybe because it was novel for me to have a periwinkle blue beam.
__________________

Attention new brothers of the collimated light!

Newbie advice: Please take the time to first make an introduction in the Welcome section before posting questions: - https://laserpointerforums.com/f37

Divergence to spot size calc: - 1 mRad is about .057 degrees which expands to be very roughly ~10% the diameter of the moon or sun at their distances.

Divergence Calculator: pseudonomen137's JScript mRad Calculator - Measure your lasers beam dia. at 1 foot & then 20'.

Online calc. to determine spot intensity at different mRad's & powers: http://tinyurl.com/divergence-calculator

Laser Power Density Calculator: Laser Power Density Calculator - Ophir

Build a beam expander to reduce divergence: http://tinyurl.com/BeamExpander

University YAG Project The Professor's Homebuilt Lasers Site - YAG Lasers

YAG Power Calc. Laser Peak Power Calculator - Ophir

Angular Size Calculator; use with diode angle of radiation spec. for lens dia. at FL: Angular Size Calculator

RHD's Calc: http://lsrtools.1apps.com/RelativeBr...&useRaleigh=on

High Current Pulse Drivers: https://tinyurl.com/ya7whuk3

Last edited by Alaskan; 04-27-2017 at 02:39 AM.

04-27-2017, 12:39 AM #31
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Encap
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Re: Which laser goes the furthest? A response...

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Khoonda I haven't posted in a while, but this topic is relevant to a purchase decision I was trying to make. I was on the Sanwu Lasers Challenger II page and was trying to chose between getting 470nm@4W or 520nm@1W. I ended up getting the 470nm@4W laser, as I was going to use the laser mostly at night and I knew that our sensitivity shifted a bit to the shorter wavelengths in low light. I figured the blue one would appear brighter. However, according to the calculator, it's still only 77% as bright compared to the green. You said it's "too harsh on blue power," does that mean the blue might have a higher percentage in comparison?
What Steve001 And Alaskan have said above +

yes, 1W 520nm is brighter, easier on the eyes, and safer( only 1W dangerous but still dangerous for eyes)

Dot is only 1/2 as bright and beam 77% according to the calculator

You are not going to notice the beam brightness difference very much in a side by side test and the blue is 4X as powerful if you need that output power for anything like burnng power.

Whatever you do be safe wear laser goggles and use safe laser operationand handiling procedures--- 4W can end you eyesight quicker than the blink refles of an eye of 0.25 seconds --there is no chance to correct once an accident is in progress--goggles are they only way.

How bright the beam is depends very much on atomspheric conditions .

It depends on the many factors of air where you are at any given point in time.
Laser beam visibility is highly dependent on ever changing atmospheric conditions and aerosols in the air.
You never actually see the laser beam --what you see is the reflections from particles in the air. No matter what output power 100 mW or 100W or wavelength/color there is no visible laser beam in a vacuum.

At sea-level, one cubic inch (1 inch x 1 inch x 1 inch) (16.39 cm3) of "air" contains approximately 400 billion billion (4*1020) air molecules, each moving at about 1600 km/hr (1000 miles/hr), and colliding with other molecules and anything else they come into contact with about 5 billion times per second. This is the reason for "air pressure". The amount of particles in that air that can reflect a portion of a laser beam's light back to your eye determines if you can see it or not.

It all depends upon atmospheric conditions--a beam you can see extremely well in fog or area with high concentration of particulate matter in the air can be almost invisible in clean clear air

"In a vacuum, the laser beam itself would be invisible - regardless of power or color. As a laser beam passes through Earth's Atmosphere some of the photons encounter large airborne particles which reflect some of the light back to an observer. This only creates intermittent tiny bright flashes of light or "knots" in the beam - it is not why we can see the beam itself.

It is extremely small airborne particles called aerosols having a diameter significantly less than the wavelength of the light that causes the beam to become visible.

The effect of minute particles scattering light is called Rayleigh scattering and it's most noticeable effect is to turn the daytime sky blue. Rayleigh scattering causes photons to be scattered in a roughly spherical manner around these particles. Some of the light is scattered forward (in the direction of the beam), a lesser amount is scattered to the sides and about the same amount that is scattered forward is scattered backwards towards the light source. This backwards scattering is why the beam is more visible to people standing near the astronomer using it, than people standing some distance to the side. The more of these minute particles there are in the atmosphere, the more Rayleigh scattering there is."
From : RASC Calgary Centre - The Atmosphere, Astronomy and Green Lasers

Really you need to understand aerosols in air --is very interesting actually--you need to know what they are locally and density of same to be able to figure laser beam visibility possibilities of one place compared to another place on the earths surface. Example: the most aerosol-laden air in the United States today pales in comparison to Asia. So laser beams are more visible there, generally speaking. Depending on the season and weather conditions, surges of aerosols can make their way into the atmosphere almost anywhere on Earth

See NASA Earth Observatory page for an excellent explaination of aerosols in air with lots of pictures and charts of the planetary distribution of aerosols.
See: https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/Aerosols/

Probably more answer than you wanted --hope it helps you understand the nature of laers beam visibility.

Last edited by Encap; 04-27-2017 at 02:44 AM.

04-27-2017, 02:26 AM #32
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paul1598419
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Re: Which laser goes the furthest? A response...

One thing I found to be in disagreement with Rayleigh scattering of sunlight through the atmosphere is due not to aerosols, but molecular gases such as N2 and O2. These molecules have a length that cause scattering of short wavelength light causing the sky to look blue, and at dusk or dawn to look more reddish. Apparently aerosols cover a large volume in particulate matter from NO2 to bits of dust which are enormous on a molecular scale. I think most people here are aware of the ability of dust particles to scatter laser light in the visible spectrum. These are more likely indoors, except where smog is concerned in areas where air currents aren't available to carry them off quickly enough to keep them from becoming visible.
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405nm Laser Pointer 45mW
405nm C11 700mW
405nm Laser Shack Pointer 80mW
Thor H Dual Power 445nm, 438 mW & 1648 mW
445nm 3 watts MS-SSW-II
445nm 2.2 watts Nichia MS Envy

473nm 50 mW BWB-10-OEM DPSS
477nm 127 mW 501B
488nm Uniphase #2201-20SLAT argon laser head and power supply >40mW
493nm 120 mW 501B
520nm LaserLands pointer Measures 510nm
532nm LSR532H-1W Laser, LSR-PS-N1 Driver, RS-75-5 P.S. 1300 mW
532nm 200mW Thermostatically Controlled Fan Cooled (Besram) >230mW
532nm 189mW pocket lab laser
532nm lasers X6 100mW-200mW
532nm lasers X4 75mW- 140mW
632.8nm P210 New Laser Tube 0.57mW Melles Griot 05-LMP-827-037 PS
632.8nm Spectra- Physics He- Ne #102-2 4mW heads X2 and #236 power supply
632.8nm PMS He-Ne # 201P/ LPS-115 2mW
632.8nm Siemens HeNe LGK7630S 7.6mW
638nm 1 watt Cyprus II
635nm 5mW pointer
635nm 100mW pointer
650nm 65mW pointer
650nm 380mW 501B
808nm 1+W infrared laser
Ocean Optics USB2000 Spectrometer
B&W TEK BTC100 Spectrometers X3
Scientech Vector S310 with AC2500 10 Watt LPM/ Hyperion 6 Watt & 20 Watt LPM/ Radiant X4 3.7 Watt LPM

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