Old 07-29-2010, 12:31 AM #1
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Default Artifacts around PGL-III-C Beam - am I being paranoid/perfectionist?

These 'dots' don't seem to be there on my PGL-III-C 400mW, but on my LaserGlow Aries (Which I've used maybe.. 6 times?) I just notced these 'dots' (about the size of the main beam) around the beam. They aren't as visible (relative to the main beam) as they seem in the picture... (hard to explain.. Our eyes get more dynamic range; so at the cost of washing out the main dot, the artifacts around the beam are brightened 'relatively' - kind of like loudness compression in music.)

This is at about 15 feet. The 'main dot' is around 1/4 inch. (The 'sharp', 'scratchy' looking points are nothing -that's just the paint texture on the wall.)

The 'dots' seem to be 'phantoms' or duplicates of the main dot.

I am POSITIVE that the lens is spotless. They aren't THAT bright - it's not like the whole beam is a smudge. And they may have been there before, I may just be noticing this now...

Any idea of what causes this? Could a few 5 minute duty cycles to compare this PGL-III-C to my other PGL-III-C do this?

Or is it something that is just present in some DPSS lasers? I'm out of warranty with LaserGlow on this one, but I'd like to get some folks opinions?

It probably isn't QUITE as marked as it seems in the pictures - not quite as visible. One of them, I'm blocking most of the main dot with my hand to show what's going on there.

I realise I could be just overly perfectionist about my beam quality here.
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Artifacts around PGL-III-C Beam - am I being paranoid/perfectionist?-pgliic150-1.jpg   Artifacts around PGL-III-C Beam - am I being paranoid/perfectionist?-pgliic150-2.jpg  


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655nm:LOC 254mW ∙ OLIKE 221mW ∙ Yob 320mW
638nm:Sanyo 40mW ∙ HL63133 200mW ∙ PGL3C 463mWpk ∙ ML520 700mW
633nm:JDS1145 HeNe 28mW ∙ JDS1145 HeNe 26mW
612nm:MG 05LOR151 HeNe 3mW ∙ REO LSTP 3mW
609nm:REO LHOR 1mW
604nm:REO LSTP 2mW
594nm:Rigel 3mW ∙ LG PGL3C 15mWpk ∙ Lasos 7512 3mW ∙ CNI MGL3 58mWpk
589nm:CNI PGL3C 106mW ∙ CNI PGL3C 85mW
561nm:CNI PGL3C 30mW(41pk)
556nm:CNI PGL3C 20mW(22pk)
544nm:JDS1675P HeNe 2mW ∙ REO LHGR 2mW ∙ Lasos 7786 2mW
532nm:PGL3C 150mW(180pk) ∙ PGL3C 578mWpk ∙ PLC 440mWpk
515nm:JDS 221420GL ArI 30mW
510nm:52mW DG#2 ∙ 50mW 26650 DG
488nm:Nlx DPSS 7mW ∙ JDS 2214 ArI 40mW ∙ JDS FCD488 DPSS 25mW
ML:MG 65A106025 ArI ML 115mW
476/480nm:Nichia Diode 28mW
473nm:PGL3A 45mW(80pk) ∙ PGL3C 110mWpk ∙ PGL3C 95mWpk ∙ RPLB-25 60mWpk
465nm:DTR NDB7676 2.03w
458nm:JDS 2214VL ArI 8mW ∙ JDS 2214VL ArI 12mW ∙ RHD Diode 1.7W
452nm:Osram SM 47mW
445nm:Yob 1410mW ∙ Polaris 156mW ∙ PGL3C 1200mW ∙ DTR-EHG 32650 2136mW
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Old 07-29-2010, 12:49 AM #2
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Default Re: Artifacts around PGL-III-C Beam - am I being paranoid/perfectionist?

It's indeed strange. It also looks surprisingly regular. Still it looks like dirt. Can you remove the lens completely ?
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Old 07-29-2010, 12:53 AM #3
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Default Re: Artifacts around PGL-III-C Beam - am I being paranoid/perfectionist?

Not that I know of; and I've not taken apart a PGL-III-C; I think hex screws are involved. Last thing I want to do is make this worse. (If anyone has advice on that, it'd help.)

My biggest fear on this is crystal damage, but really, it's never gotten hot, and LG says they test these for 10 minutes before shipping; I've never run it anywhere near that long. Maybe 20 minutes cumulatively in its entire lifetime. It stays in the case most of the time.

Deposits from humidity?
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515nm:JDS 221420GL ArI 30mW
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Old 07-29-2010, 12:54 AM #4
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Default Re: Artifacts around PGL-III-C Beam - am I being paranoid/perfectionist?

That looks like a dirty lens to me. If you can. Try gently sweeping off the surface of the lens through the aperture shutter with a cotton swab.
With my PGL, I usually pull off some cotton from one end (making sure not to get finger oils on it) and stick some of the fibers down the aperture to brush off whatever dust has collected.

Edit: It is definitely not crystal damage. In the worst case, It is probably some aluminum dust on the internal infrared filter. Nothing that can't be cured with some careful cleaning.
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Old 07-29-2010, 01:05 AM #5
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Default Re: Artifacts around PGL-III-C Beam - am I being paranoid/perfectionist?

Okay. Actually, I think I found it. RA - I think you're right. Shining a flashlight in, I DEFINITELY see a speck in there. A shiny speck. So it looks like an aluminum shaving made its way onto something. I believe it's the back surface of the final lens.

So now, I guess the issue is -- disassembly... Certainly not going to do that until I know what the hell I'm doing. (And the beam still heats my hand from 15 feet away so it's not the end of the world.)

But there's definitely something visible in there, when shining a flashlight down it. Now, it could also be a defect in the lens. So,

A) Anyone know how to take one of these apart? (the right way?)
B) If it is the final lens, do you think a new one could be ordered from CNI?
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Old 07-29-2010, 01:09 AM #6
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Default Re: Artifacts around PGL-III-C Beam - am I being paranoid/perfectionist?

There are some 1.5mm hex screws around the heatsink I believe, this was covered in another thread, or at least mentioned briefly, I'll see if I can't find it for you.


Edit: http://laserpointerforums.com/f45/br...-do-44699.html It's the Hulk model from DL, which is the same laser. Hope it helps.
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Old 07-29-2010, 01:21 AM #7
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Default Re: Artifacts around PGL-III-C Beam - am I being paranoid/perfectionist?

Thanks a lot, Prototype. That's the same model. A real wealth of information there. I believe I do have the hex screws that small. Awesome.

EDIT: This is actually a little different. It is an Aries/PGL-III-C, but there are no hex screws along the bottom of the heat sink (only the top), and the final lens assembly is secured with a plate with two dots/indentations in the middle:

(o O o) <--- sorta. I've seen these sort of fixtures before, I'm not sure if a wrench/driver can be bought that fits into those two holes? I presume this is what CNI uses to focus and align them. The Hulk that was shown in the other thread didn't quite have this. I remember a Vega that showed up broken having this "plate" loosened in shipping. Seems like it's a specialized too to remove it or adjust it.

Now, wondering if this is a 'bubble' or a piece of aluminum. And if CNI can send a new lens if it is a 'bubble' vs aluminum speck. (Edit #2 - Further observation under magnification - it's definitely an aluminum speck or shaving, not a bubble in the glass.)

Either way, thanks a lot guys, and relieved that this isn't crystal damage. (I really may not have noticed it until now; its not nearly as evident as it seems in the image.) +1 for the help, to who I can give it to - because honestly, if this forum wasn't here, I wouldn't be able to get this advice. It's worth it.

Now to find the tool to remove this plate...

Thanks.
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655nm:LOC 254mW ∙ OLIKE 221mW ∙ Yob 320mW
638nm:Sanyo 40mW ∙ HL63133 200mW ∙ PGL3C 463mWpk ∙ ML520 700mW
633nm:JDS1145 HeNe 28mW ∙ JDS1145 HeNe 26mW
612nm:MG 05LOR151 HeNe 3mW ∙ REO LSTP 3mW
609nm:REO LHOR 1mW
604nm:REO LSTP 2mW
594nm:Rigel 3mW ∙ LG PGL3C 15mWpk ∙ Lasos 7512 3mW ∙ CNI MGL3 58mWpk
589nm:CNI PGL3C 106mW ∙ CNI PGL3C 85mW
561nm:CNI PGL3C 30mW(41pk)
556nm:CNI PGL3C 20mW(22pk)
544nm:JDS1675P HeNe 2mW ∙ REO LHGR 2mW ∙ Lasos 7786 2mW
532nm:PGL3C 150mW(180pk) ∙ PGL3C 578mWpk ∙ PLC 440mWpk
515nm:JDS 221420GL ArI 30mW
510nm:52mW DG#2 ∙ 50mW 26650 DG
488nm:Nlx DPSS 7mW ∙ JDS 2214 ArI 40mW ∙ JDS FCD488 DPSS 25mW
ML:MG 65A106025 ArI ML 115mW
476/480nm:Nichia Diode 28mW
473nm:PGL3A 45mW(80pk) ∙ PGL3C 110mWpk ∙ PGL3C 95mWpk ∙ RPLB-25 60mWpk
465nm:DTR NDB7676 2.03w
458nm:JDS 2214VL ArI 8mW ∙ JDS 2214VL ArI 12mW ∙ RHD Diode 1.7W
452nm:Osram SM 47mW
445nm:Yob 1410mW ∙ Polaris 156mW ∙ PGL3C 1200mW ∙ DTR-EHG 32650 2136mW
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Old 07-29-2010, 06:29 AM #8
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Default Re: Artifacts around PGL-III-C Beam - am I being paranoid/perfectionist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aryntha View Post
Thanks a lot, Prototype. That's the same model. A real wealth of information there. I believe I do have the hex screws that small. Awesome.

EDIT: This is actually a little different. It is an Aries/PGL-III-C, but there are no hex screws along the bottom of the heat sink (only the top), and the final lens assembly is secured with a plate with two dots/indentations in the middle:

(o O o) <--- sorta. I've seen these sort of fixtures before, I'm not sure if a wrench/driver can be bought that fits into those two holes? I presume this is what CNI uses to focus and align them. The Hulk that was shown in the other thread didn't quite have this. I remember a Vega that showed up broken having this "plate" loosened in shipping. Seems like it's a specialized too to remove it or adjust it.

Now, wondering if this is a 'bubble' or a piece of aluminum. And if CNI can send a new lens if it is a 'bubble' vs aluminum speck. (Edit #2 - Further observation under magnification - it's definitely an aluminum speck or shaving, not a bubble in the glass.)

Either way, thanks a lot guys, and relieved that this isn't crystal damage. (I really may not have noticed it until now; its not nearly as evident as it seems in the image.) +1 for the help, to who I can give it to - because honestly, if this forum wasn't here, I wouldn't be able to get this advice. It's worth it.

Now to find the tool to remove this plate...

Thanks.
First, I would suggest you try to "shake" the particle loose.
I would get a particle of aluminum dust on the plano surface of the lens of my X105, just like you have here, and I would be able to dislodge the dust by giving it a firm tap on the tail cap on the palm of my hand.

Also, You will not have much luck getting to the lens from the aperture.
The lens is mounted on an aluminum disk which is sealed in place with some tough adhesive on the threads. You will either have to remove the lens itself or risk jamming the disk in the threads.

If the Aries is built like the 18650 PGL-III-C, the whole head should be able to unscrew from the body. With the head removed, the rear of the collimating lens will be accessible.

Edit: Do you already have the aperture shutter removed?
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Old 07-29-2010, 07:14 AM #9
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Default Re: Artifacts around PGL-III-C Beam - am I being paranoid/perfectionist?

RA, Yeah, I have the aperture shutter removed. That was just small hex screws. The metal speck seems to be on the back surface of the lens that's attached to the metal disc (the one with the two indentations).

Are you saying there's another way to get to the rear side of the lens, without removing / unscrewing the metal disc?
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685nm:18650 47mW
671nm:PGL3M 281mW DPSS ∙ PGL3C 278mW
655nm:LOC 254mW ∙ OLIKE 221mW ∙ Yob 320mW
638nm:Sanyo 40mW ∙ HL63133 200mW ∙ PGL3C 463mWpk ∙ ML520 700mW
633nm:JDS1145 HeNe 28mW ∙ JDS1145 HeNe 26mW
612nm:MG 05LOR151 HeNe 3mW ∙ REO LSTP 3mW
609nm:REO LHOR 1mW
604nm:REO LSTP 2mW
594nm:Rigel 3mW ∙ LG PGL3C 15mWpk ∙ Lasos 7512 3mW ∙ CNI MGL3 58mWpk
589nm:CNI PGL3C 106mW ∙ CNI PGL3C 85mW
561nm:CNI PGL3C 30mW(41pk)
556nm:CNI PGL3C 20mW(22pk)
544nm:JDS1675P HeNe 2mW ∙ REO LHGR 2mW ∙ Lasos 7786 2mW
532nm:PGL3C 150mW(180pk) ∙ PGL3C 578mWpk ∙ PLC 440mWpk
515nm:JDS 221420GL ArI 30mW
510nm:52mW DG#2 ∙ 50mW 26650 DG
488nm:Nlx DPSS 7mW ∙ JDS 2214 ArI 40mW ∙ JDS FCD488 DPSS 25mW
ML:MG 65A106025 ArI ML 115mW
476/480nm:Nichia Diode 28mW
473nm:PGL3A 45mW(80pk) ∙ PGL3C 110mWpk ∙ PGL3C 95mWpk ∙ RPLB-25 60mWpk
465nm:DTR NDB7676 2.03w
458nm:JDS 2214VL ArI 8mW ∙ JDS 2214VL ArI 12mW ∙ RHD Diode 1.7W
452nm:Osram SM 47mW
445nm:Yob 1410mW ∙ Polaris 156mW ∙ PGL3C 1200mW ∙ DTR-EHG 32650 2136mW
405nm:Yob 630mW ∙ Qfox 750mW ∙ JETL PLC 780mW
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Old 07-29-2010, 08:09 AM #10
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Default Re: Artifacts around PGL-III-C Beam - am I being paranoid/perfectionist?

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Originally Posted by aryntha View Post
RA, Yeah, I have the aperture shutter removed. That was just small hex screws. The metal speck seems to be on the back surface of the lens that's attached to the metal disc (the one with the two indentations).

Are you saying there's another way to get to the rear side of the lens, without removing / unscrewing the metal disc?
I think the whole head can be removed from the battery, button, and circuit housing. This would allow you to go behind it. Though I wouldn't be surprised if there was still quite a few things in your way like the module with the crystals. It still may be an easier way to access what you need to, but maybe not.

If you do get into it, make sure your in the least dust populated area you can get into. It will save you a lot of problems lol.

Good luck.
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Old 07-29-2010, 09:20 AM #11
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Default Re: Artifacts around PGL-III-C Beam - am I being paranoid/perfectionist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aryntha View Post
RA, Yeah, I have the aperture shutter removed. That was just small hex screws. The metal speck seems to be on the back surface of the lens that's attached to the metal disc (the one with the two indentations).

Are you saying there's another way to get to the rear side of the lens, without removing / unscrewing the metal disc?
Yes. The whole head should be removable. At least, it is on my PGL. The module is installed in the body of the laser. The heatsink or head simply slides right over it. The collimating lens is threaded into the head so is accessible through it.
I'm not sure what differences in design there may be between my laser and the Aries, but I think they should be similar, since they are both CNI - just different versions of the PGL-III.
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Old 07-29-2010, 10:59 AM #12
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Default Re: Artifacts around PGL-III-C Beam - am I being paranoid/perfectionist?

Ok, I'll check that once I'm awake with the daylight tomorrow....

Also found the tool I'd need to get the lens disc off - in ElectroFreak's post here:

http://laserpointerforums.com/f44/la...tml#post671347

A few of these listed on ebay, but this looks like what I'd want. - but maybe I can get this done without resorting to that.
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3392nm:REO LHIP HeNe 2mW ∙ 980nm:OLIKE 155mW

808nm:OLIKE 200mW ∙ JETL PLC 600mW(682pk)
780nm:OLIKE 120mW
685nm:18650 47mW
671nm:PGL3M 281mW DPSS ∙ PGL3C 278mW
655nm:LOC 254mW ∙ OLIKE 221mW ∙ Yob 320mW
638nm:Sanyo 40mW ∙ HL63133 200mW ∙ PGL3C 463mWpk ∙ ML520 700mW
633nm:JDS1145 HeNe 28mW ∙ JDS1145 HeNe 26mW
612nm:MG 05LOR151 HeNe 3mW ∙ REO LSTP 3mW
609nm:REO LHOR 1mW
604nm:REO LSTP 2mW
594nm:Rigel 3mW ∙ LG PGL3C 15mWpk ∙ Lasos 7512 3mW ∙ CNI MGL3 58mWpk
589nm:CNI PGL3C 106mW ∙ CNI PGL3C 85mW
561nm:CNI PGL3C 30mW(41pk)
556nm:CNI PGL3C 20mW(22pk)
544nm:JDS1675P HeNe 2mW ∙ REO LHGR 2mW ∙ Lasos 7786 2mW
532nm:PGL3C 150mW(180pk) ∙ PGL3C 578mWpk ∙ PLC 440mWpk
515nm:JDS 221420GL ArI 30mW
510nm:52mW DG#2 ∙ 50mW 26650 DG
488nm:Nlx DPSS 7mW ∙ JDS 2214 ArI 40mW ∙ JDS FCD488 DPSS 25mW
ML:MG 65A106025 ArI ML 115mW
476/480nm:Nichia Diode 28mW
473nm:PGL3A 45mW(80pk) ∙ PGL3C 110mWpk ∙ PGL3C 95mWpk ∙ RPLB-25 60mWpk
465nm:DTR NDB7676 2.03w
458nm:JDS 2214VL ArI 8mW ∙ JDS 2214VL ArI 12mW ∙ RHD Diode 1.7W
452nm:Osram SM 47mW
445nm:Yob 1410mW ∙ Polaris 156mW ∙ PGL3C 1200mW ∙ DTR-EHG 32650 2136mW
405nm:Yob 630mW ∙ Qfox 750mW ∙ JETL PLC 780mW

Last edited by aryntha; 07-29-2010 at 11:01 AM.
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