*UPDATE* Problem found LPM or Laser

Re: Am I doing this right? =)

Wait until you have another laser in hand, that's been LPMed to see if it's your LPM or not,

Who did you get it from? If it was Lasersbee, contact Jerry. Obstinate as he is, he does take care of his customers. If the LPM is off, and you can't return it, it's still better than nothing, and still probably best off to contact Jerry to have it repaired.

About the PL-E, I wouldn't bother. Even if it is underspec, it's not by much, not worth the hassle of sending it out. And Gray is really really nice about service, if you find out it's underspec and your LPM is accurate a month from now, he'll still help you out. That's actually why jetlasers is my personal go to recommendation as lasers go.

Re: Am I doing this right? =)

Only thing I worry about with regard to measuring the spartan is those things are usually overspec. Your spartan 30 might very well put out 50-60 mw peak. If your meter is underrating lasers it would show your spartan as putting out the proper amount due to the spartan being overspec. Then you would still think your PLE was underspec. Do you have the proper power readings for your unit from Dragonlasers?

Re: Am I doing this right? =)

Razako said:

Only thing I worry about with regard to measuring the spartan is those things are usually overspec. Your spartan 30 might very well put out 50-60 mw peak. If your meter is underrating lasers it would show your spartan as putting out the proper amount due to the spartan being overspec. Then you would still think your PLE was underspec. Do you have the proper power readings for your unit from Dragonlasers?

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I do not.

Guys, I decided to send my PL-E to Pman. There he will test power from an adapter and from a 18650 battery. If the PL-E is over 150mW, then I'll keep it and figure out about this LPM deal. If it meters less then 150mW then I'd have to return the laser!

Should hear back from Pman on Wednesday.

-Alex

Re: Am I doing this right? =)

Hap said:

I do not.

Guys, I decided to send my PL-E to Pman. There he will test power from an adapter and from a 18650 battery. If the PL-E is over 150mW, then I'll keep it and figure out about this LPM deal. If it meters less then 150mW then I'd have to return the laser!

Should hear back from Pman on Wednesday.

-Alex

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Nice. We should get some closure then:beer:

This issue effects me on both sides because I've been wanting to get a LPM for a while now, and I've also got an order with jetlasers for their 1W 650 PLE to complete my collection. Now I'm worried about the reliability of laserbee LPM's AND whether I'll get a proper laser from JL.

Re: Am I doing this right? =)

Razako said:

Nice. We should get some closure then:beer:

This issue effects me on both sides because I've been wanting to get a LPM for a while now, and I've also got an order with jetlasers for their 1W 650 PLE to complete my collection. Now I'm worried about the reliability of laserbee LPM's AND whether I'll get a proper laser from JL.

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Yes indeed! :beer:

Just want to figure out which one is accurate ugh!

Sucks when you have OCD lol!

-Alex

Re: Am I doing this right? =)

As I told Hap I'll be measuring it as soon as it arrives (and after it reaches room temp) and then sending it immediately back hopefully the same day depending on when it is delivered. It's not like it's going to take much time and I have 2 post offices within 5 minutes from me. If it works out he will have it back by the weekend. If it measures good with one of my brand new batteries then no other test will be necessary as it should not need a power supply for the proper output as this was built to be a handheld regardless of the plug in side port.
I also have my just purchased 473nm Jet coming but will put that aside to get this done. There's no other way to figure out what is going on without a more accurate reading. I'll even check it on my backup TEC based LPM which I just checked against my Ophir this afternoon. My TEC was almost spot on for the range I'll be measuring with his laser. It's NOT a laserbee.

Re: Am I doing this right? =)

Pman said:

As I told Hap I'll be measuring it as soon as it arrives (and after it reaches room temp) and then sending it immediately back hopefully the same day depending on when it is delivered. It's not like it's going to take much time and I have 2 post offices within 5 minutes from me. If it works out he will have it back by the weekend. If it measures good with one of my brand new batteries then no other test will be necessary as it should not need a power supply for the proper output as this was built to be a handheld regardless of the plug in side port.
I also have my just purchased 473nm Jet coming but will put that aside to get this done. There's no other way to figure out what is going on without a more accurate reading. I'll even check it on my backup TEC based LPM which I just checked against my Ophir this afternoon. My TEC was almost spot on for the range I'll be measuring with his laser. It's NOT a laserbee.

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Once again, much appreciated Pman!

Hopefully it measures around what Gray measured it at. If so, then returning the LPM I will do!

Edit: I might need to also send you my 589nm Pman

-Alex

Re: Am I doing this right? =)

Hap said:

I do trust Gray's reading so I may just go off that.

I am just concerned about the LPM at this point...

-Alex

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I myself do not trust his reading. Take another look at those videos I linked to, it looks like they are being metered at about 2 inches from the sensor. With some lasers this will throw off the reading because of heat from the laser, maybe or maybe not with yours. Retest your laser at 2 inches and see if there is a difference before you mail it off to be tested.

Alan

Re: Am I doing this right? =)

Pi R Squared said:

I myself do not trust his reading. Take another look at those videos I linked to, it looks like they are being metered at about 2 inches from the sensor. With some lasers this will throw off the reading because of heat from the laser, maybe or maybe not with yours. Retest your laser at 2 inches and see if there is a difference before you mail it off to be tested.

Alan

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I already have it all packed up

I'll see what I get from Pman, and will use his reading.

-Alex

Re: Am I doing this right? =)

So Gray sent me an email back.

I will wait for Pman to test my laser out. If my Laserbee is not calibrated, I can send it back to him and re can re-calibrate it for Free!

-Alex

Re: Am I doing this right? =)

I'm not an expert on laserbees. My power meters are all thermopile based, not TEC based. I cannot verify it.

I did, however, ask the designer of the radiant alpha, which uses identical technology to the laserbee.

<Cyparagon> MarioMaster, alaskan says his laserbee doesn't read properly if it is on a table
<Cyparagon> Only reads properly if it is isolated from all surfaces with styrofoam. Is there any truth to that, and why would that be the case from a physics perspective?
<MarioMaster> you're not supposed to use the running glass top range as a table
<MarioMaster> touching the heatsink is a definite nono
<MarioMaster> otherwise the surface doesn't matter

Click to expand...

I think there may be something else at play here. Maybe you (or anyone else with a TEC-based power meter) could shoot two videos. One on an insulated surface, and one on the table. In both, the device should be zeroed and left to sit at least a minute or three before taking a reading to allow it to equalize. Also be sure to use a lowish powered diode laser what would not vary between two readings.

Re: Am I doing this right? =)

did I read this right?? if 'just' spec you will be returning it TOO?

not fair

two bits of advice-1 --- FYI using a ac/dc wall wart does NOT convert a portable into a lab laser( I was asked that a while back not by Hap btw--

NO it does not have the massive heat sink of a labby-no active cooling like many labbies-
in JL GB #2 iirc we had about 10 buyers of the PL-C 532nm 250mW ... the biggest seller by far-


One was for me- I randomally assigned each one to a buyer THEN did the power graphs-NONE were 'just spec' and arythna got the 'keeper' at 440mW peak-- mine was IIRC around 300mW

my point? should have ALL the other buyers be expecting also 440mW ?? and,..... would that be a valid reason to return?? I have read posts where members TOLD JL buyers to complain until they got a 440mW as WELL---CMON MAN!! --- very unkind to a company and an employee have gone very far to make buyers happy..and unknown to many have helped members here with many personal (REAL)problems-- and did so without expecting a lot of praise or even recognition. Sad that some take kindness to be a weakness and exploit that for personal gain and reason.


hak

Re: Am I doing this right? =)

^hakzaw

No sir. If it meters 150mW or over I'm keeping it! Really right now we are just trying to see if Gray's reading is correct or if the Laserbee I have is correct(since they come calibrated).

I appreciate Gray and all he has done for me, I really do, which is why I will keep purchasing from him :yh:

-Alex

Re: Am I doing this right? =)

^^^ good to hear that-for a long time now Gray has a graphing Laserbee I sent him--(he paid me back btw) it was quite expensive ATM but is very accurate afaik

good luck

Re: Am I doing this right? =)

Cyp, I didn't take a video or even pics but I will put my word up against anyones. I don't know if I did exactly what you asked but I tried.
As mentioned I don't have a laserbee but I do have a TEC unit as my backup. I did the measurements on a standard height table in a still kitchen while the refrigerator was not running and neither was the air to air heat exchanger. My home has 14" walls that are basically an outside wall and an inside wall 1r" apart all filled with an R50 insulation and that is just the insulation alone. Everything is silicone caulked and their is no access to the r60 insulation in the ceiling/attic. It is called a "no-heat" home and is all electic. It has a couple of baseboard 220V heaters and an a it to air heat exchanger that runs off a humidistat.
All doors and windows were shut. Had exactly 70.0F
Measured a 75mW 405nm pen with new batteries exchanged between readings with a 5 minute gap. Reading 1 was 1.5 minutes 12" away middle of table about 15 minutes after the meter just sat as the room it was in originally was at 69.6F. 74mW steady after 35 seconds. I was standing maybe 10 feet away using my laserbtb pen holder that has a screw down that holds the button down.
Waited 5 minutes and then redid the same test with a 4" thick piece of styrophone and new batteries and got basically the same measurement with the meter sometimes reading between 73 and 74mW but mostly on 74mW.

Not sure what anyone was really expecting to see other than the same reading. That's a pretty controlled reading in my opinion for a house. My son was laying on a couch in another room asleep and my wife was asleep upstairs. No doors or windows were moved and a toilet wasn't flushed. I breathed to the side away from the sensor and like I said was well away from it. Not sure what else would mean anything and I'm not trying to be funny.
After that was completed I did a quick test with my Ophir and the TEC turned out to be very accurate at least in this lower range. I know for a fact that the higher the output the more off it is but I couldn't say how much without testing and I really don't like the idea of putting a lot of output onto the surface if I don't need to.

Re: Am I doing this right? =)

Cyparagon said:

I'm not an expert on laserbees. My power meters are all thermopile based, not TEC based. I cannot verify it.

I did, however, ask the designer of the radiant alpha, which uses identical technology to the laserbee.



I think there may be something else at play here. Maybe you (or anyone else with a TEC-based power meter) could shoot two videos. One on an insulated surface, and one on the table. In both, the device should be zeroed and left to sit at least a minute or three before taking a reading to allow it to equalize. Also be sure to use a lowish powered diode laser what would not vary between two readings.

Click to expand...

I'm with you on this Cyparagon. These things should be okay as long as they're zeroed at thermal stability. Thermopile and TEC style devices should be the same in this regard. They can measure a thermal gradient across the device by creating a voltage. The difference is that a thermopile is actually designed for good linearity and responsiveness in readings, and a TEC is designed simply for efficiency in the exact opposite process.

I think the issues come from when the tiny heatsink starts to significantly raise in temperature during measurement. Not only is the average temperature of the system rising and decreasing the efficiency of the TEC, the temperature gradient itself is probably decreasing which would read a lower power level. The linearity of a TEC is questionable, so I think accuracy and precision really can't be expected out of the unit if this happens. I don't expect meters designed to be cheap to also have fancy software to handle a multivariable correction algorithm.

Really, for something like this to be accurate, I feel like the more constant you can keep the sink temperature, the better your accuracy will be. Putting it on a thermally stable conductive material with heat capacity like aluminum should make it read higher. Insulating it should read lower. I'd really like to see how a phase-changing material like ice water would affect measurements though. A hot surface likely doesn't work because of the negative voltage it'd produce compared to the laser side, but a cold one may make the device much more sensitive and stable.