Old 12-26-2014, 11:51 PM #81
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Default Re: Self-Defense ~ Bear with me for a moment!

Why are you still thinking about using a
laser? The LED would be far more
effective. It would work at close range
and has far less chance of blinding
someone. It's just better in every single
way.


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Old 12-27-2014, 04:56 AM #82
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Default Re: Self-Defense ~ Bear with me for a moment!

LED's are not a consideration for me. My interests are much more speculative.
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Old 12-27-2014, 09:22 AM #83
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Red face Re: Self-Defense ~ Bear with me for a moment!

Okay, then don't ever build one of these
then. In fact, don't even look at this. I
command you not to look at it.

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Old 12-27-2014, 04:37 PM #84
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Default Re: Self-Defense ~ Bear with me for a moment!

WOW! Extremely Cool!!!

I will definitely build one of those in the near future!
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Old 12-27-2014, 11:39 PM #85
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Default Re: Self-Defense ~ Bear with me for a moment!

I couldn't resist....I had to look! I shielded my eyes but it was no use, the temptation of your siren song was too much for me to resist~

Very cool build. The size is the most impressive part for me. That 20 second duty cycle though....I know you didn't have a lot of room to work with for heat sinking so you did a great job. With respect to the topic of this thread, I suppose it just means that you have 20 seconds to drop an anvil on his head.

Despite the cool build, it's still not going to satisfy my hypothetical needs.
besides, I have a few ultra-bright lights in excess of 1000 lumens, and the're Surefire lights so they really are in excess of 1000 lumens. Plus, the duty cycle is way longer than 20 seconds, which gives me more options for "disposal" of the intruder lol~
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Old 12-29-2014, 04:58 AM #86
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Default Re: Self-Defense ~ Bear with me for a moment!

my favs

"Any intruder found here at night will be found here in the morning"

'My two friends protect this house-- Mr.Smith and Mr. Wesson'
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Old 01-07-2015, 02:59 PM #87
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Default Re: Self-Defense ~ Bear with me for a moment!

Son,

Your just not reading in between the lines here. Some of us do have actual data on the laser's effectiveness. Some of us know about collateral eye damage being done to Blue team when laser dazzlers are mishandled at close range. That much is open source.

LRAD? Come on... The battery pack is huge. Its a standoff device, not a personal defense device.

I think your badly confused between the terms "Less then Lethal" and "Non-Lethal". Most things that are effective in stopping a enraged human being approach lethal or can do physical and emotional damage. Non-Lethal is merely a marketing term. If you use a Less then Lethal device, you just entered the Combat phase. A phase that you should seek to avoid.

BTW, You have also already failed, because you allowed yourself into a situation where you encountered a threat in the first place. You have already lost situational awareness.

Let me give you a scenario:

---------------------------------------------
On a dark night, You Spray CS at a unarmed, severe, asthmatic who was not a threat, and was later proven to be approaching you for help in a emergency.

What happens to you, Hero?

-----------------------------------------------

Combat is to be avoided. The first rule of Combat is to seek to avoid it in the first place.

The Second rule is the best laid attack plan will not survive first contact with the enemy.

And JUST WHAT are you going to do after you use one of these devices? Have you practiced your Sprinting lately? After all, the "Bad Guy" does get up anywhere from seconds to minutes later. Hint, Usually its NOT minutes later. Adrenalin and the Fight/Flight reflex are very real.

A US Marine just told you what standard doctrine is when a weapon is aimed at you. A 3-5 watt laser looks like a weapon to an armed opponent.

Your tone, and your "hypothetical scenario" worry me. It seems to favor you jumping someone and firing first. You openly state you only want to consider the technology without discussing the ramifications. That is very worrisome.

Steve
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Old 01-07-2015, 10:41 PM #88
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Default Re: Self-Defense ~ Bear with me for a moment!

Hi Steve,

Your concern is valid, it's just misplaced. And your comment about a person having "already failed" if they find themselves in a dangerous situation is absolutely BS....implicit in your statement is the belief that "bad" people don't prey on others. That "bad" people don't consciously and methodically seek out victims, let alone plan ahead for whatever action they intend to perpetrate. The fact that this belief permeates our culture is very alarming. It completely ignores the intentional, selfish and premeditated anti-social behavior of what
we are calling "bad" people, and places the blame entirely on the victim.

In a nutshell, this is what is known as the "Just World Theory", and it is an essential component of our cognitive dissonance. This dissonance is what ultimately allows anti-social behavior to be tolerated and even forgiven.
But all of this is a topic for another forum entirely.

With respect to my "hypothetical scenario", it's not important, after all it's just a "hypothetical" right~
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Old 01-08-2015, 05:02 AM #89
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Default Re: Self-Defense ~ Bear with me for a moment!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treser View Post
Somewhere else in this forum I read about how the invisible IR lasers pop someone’s eyeball after directing it towards them. Big danger with these is that the eye(lid) does not react on the IR so the victim/intruder gets the full load on his eye without knowing, at the moment it happens and where its coming from, till his eye explodes. Seems all very irresponsible to use except when the world turns in to a dark age where zombie attacks are the daily thing. By the way there are already some animals around that inject their victims with a substance that makes their victims zombies AND there is a bacteria around that has already 40% of humanity infected and makes the victims stupid, reacting slower and making constantly the wrong decisions. Sounds already very similar to a zombie virus.

In case you want to use the IR, as you already tested yourself, don’t use it in combination with a PVS 7 Gen 3 night vision goggles as it will give no protection to your own eyes. In that case you have to wear your laser 800+Nm goggles on top of your Night Vision goggles and I assume that will intervene with each other and make’s your NV goggles useless. Also a FLIR camera in front of you wearing a 800+ Nm protection goggle will not work as the heat of the IR laser seems to low to be seen on the FLIR camera. But again in night time outside in the scenario of a zombie attack the only way you damage your own eyes will be when the zombie’s wearing reflective suits or attachments on their clothes.
No.
The MCP will significantly diffuse the beam before it ever reaches the phosphor and this is whether the tube is still operational or not. The phosphor screen is aluminized on the vacuum side. This aluminum layer is not transparent in either the IR or visible portions of the electromagnetic spectrum. For there to be a risk of pass though, the IR radiation would first need to vaporize this aluminum layer, a highly improbable scenario. Tube would likely be toast long before there where any risk of eye damage from radiation passing through the tube.

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Old 01-08-2015, 08:09 AM #90
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Default Re: Self-Defense ~ Bear with me for a moment!

Sounds like you need a host with a laser in one end and an a taser in the other, built out of malleable iron pipe so you can clonk them on the head with it too. And maybe with a switch to short out the 18650s to use as an impromptu pipe bomb.
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Old 01-08-2015, 08:52 AM #91
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Default Re: Self-Defense ~ Bear with me for a moment!

Whoever this "crashmidget" guy is, he sure sounds like he wants to be Batman.
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Old 01-08-2015, 02:44 PM #92
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Default Re: Self-Defense ~ Bear with me for a moment!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RidiculousRosco View Post
Whoever this "crashmidget" guy is, he sure sounds like he wants to be Batman.
WE HAVE A WINNER!

He needs help to deal with his issues. Wise people who "tool up" don't tell people what's in the closet or the desk drawer.

Says the guy who spent a week in a Coma and three weeks in the hospital in recovery, when I was kid. Unprovoked assault, gang rite, on a school ground. I then had to ride the school bus with my much older assailant for a year. Under court order no less. A football player, and just short of his 17th. The team parents lobbied the court to get his sentence reduced. But the Sheriff got him in the end, however I'm not appreciative of being used as bait.

Steve
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Old 01-08-2015, 03:06 PM #93
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Default Re: Self-Defense ~ Bear with me for a moment!

Steve,

You have an amazing insight...it's like you know me better than I know myself. This is a gift that should be shared, and I want you to share it with me. We are often blind to our own challenges and shortcomings, our "issues" as you put it. Maybe you can share some of your insights with respect to my "issues", and help me see that which has eluded my gaze for so long.....I also need to know how you knew that I wanted to be Batman? What was it that showed you my true intent, the deepest desires of a possibly unhealthy mind....?

~crash
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Old 01-08-2015, 04:18 PM #94
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Default Re: Self-Defense ~ Bear with me for a moment!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LSRFAQ View Post
WE HAVE A WINNER!

He needs help to deal with his issues. Wise people who "tool up" don't tell people what's in the closet or the desk drawer.

Says the guy who spent a week in a Coma and three weeks in the hospital in recovery, when I was kid. Unprovoked assault, gang rite, on a school ground. I then had to ride the school bus with my much older assailant for a year. Under court order no less. A football player, and just short of his 17th. The team parents lobbied the court to get his sentence reduced. But the Sheriff got him in the end, however I'm not appreciative of being used as bait.

Steve
AND WE HAVE A LOSER.
Can the OP delete these off-topic posts and keep the technical aspect of the thread going?
Get rid of the post with the condescending greeting while you're at it... son. LSRFAQ's on a mission to have it locked down if you don't.


This was a pretty good thread of a 'Topic which shall not be named" and I found many of the 'on topic' posts a good read.

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Old 01-08-2015, 05:34 PM #95
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Default Re: Self-Defense ~ Bear with me for a moment!

Do the math. His 2-5 visible CW watts into a 5 foot cone into 25 foot is well above NOHD at one step forward into the beam at two and blows the NOHD everywhere at five watts. Without proper conditioning of the beam, it will have hot spots. Do not assume that less then two watts is safe, either. There is a probability curve for when the damage will occur.

NOHD is a statistical probability. The closer you get to the high end of it, the more likely you are to do actual damage.
Most laser safety and optical thresholds are calculated not to ensure any damage of all, but to have a low probability of damage occuring. NOHD is the one where the probability of damage is close to unity, ie will occur.

Ie, A 1 in 10,000 chance of some damage or death might be acceptable to Law Enforcement in a emergency. A 1 in 100,000 chance of death might be acceptable when doing off road racing.

I didn't come up with Batman. But I do sort of approve. When he asked me if I wished I could have upped the power, that is the clue that something is not quite right. I would not have needed increased power at all. In fact there is a clever technique to reduce it down to milliwatts. Scanning is one such way.

I have spent plenty of time in Less then Lethal land. Both Audio and Visual. Got to take a hit of nearly everything LTL but the Millimeter Wave. My boss tried it for me. Stood down range of my own optical and auditory products, too.

Primary requirement in that line of work, you are your own test monkey.

So are we going to take this thread so far as to teach people how far they can push eye exposure? On a forum mainly about having fun with pointers. Occupied mainly by young people who , for the most part, do not have the test gear, nor the product engineering experience to ensure safe guards?

This forum is here to educate and teach, and sell, and help with safety. Not to create possible accidents.
Upon this rock of technology comes often the need for Engineering Ethics. That is a valid branch of this discussion.



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Last edited by LSRFAQ; 01-08-2015 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 01-08-2015, 05:35 PM #96
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Default Re: Self-Defense ~ Bear with me for a moment!

Quote:
Originally Posted by crashmidget View Post
Steve,

You have an amazing insight...it's like you know me better than I know myself. This is a gift that should be shared, and I want you to share it with me. We are often blind to our own challenges and shortcomings, our "issues" as you put it. Maybe you can share some of your insights with respect to my "issues", and help me see that which has eluded my gaze for so long.....I also need to know how you knew that I wanted to be Batman? What was it that showed you my true intent, the deepest desires of a possibly unhealthy mind....?

~crash
If crash is an Industrial Designer, of which I was and had my own Chicago company for over 25 years, he has a unique way of seeing things. Discounting all but the laser/self defense aspect of crash's posts I can see where he's coming from, it's called 'Blue-Sky' thinking. Dovetailing 'in' his other known interests he wants something to fit between his keychain tear gas and his CC pistol for self-defense, he isn't talking about LSRFAQ premeditated combat super secret squirrel projects, for immediate&close self defense a laser doesn't fit the bill.

Wish I had something in my utility belt between the tear gas grenade and the .40, both tear gas residue and blood are hard to clean out of the upstairs plush carpeting.

A laser is silent, could be invisible, has long range, no bullet drop, no windage concern, and it will find a way to ricochet/reflect back at you. Like Alaskan responsibly said "Treat a laser like a gun."

Last edited by Phased Array; 01-08-2015 at 05:37 PM.
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