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05-04-2008, 02:28 AM #1
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nikokapo
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Laser Hitting Planes - Discussion

Laser Hitting Planes - Discussion

the thought of a laser even hitting the glass on a plane's cockpit in mid-air is just ridiculous..

planes fly at MORE than 175km/h
a commercial flight of about &gt;1 hour gets to &gt;33.000 feet off the land (that is &gt;10.0584 kilometers)

moving on:

if a PERSON with a handheld laser POINTER would want to hit the airplane then, assuming he/she (lol we know there are no &quot;she's&quot has a very steady hand, he would have VERY little time and precision to even go NEAR the WHOLE plane, you cant really be that accurate aiming with your bare eyes at something that is over 10km away, AND KEEP IT AT LEAST FOR MORE THAN 0.5 SECONDS ON IT!

now,
lasers have the disadvantage of the damned divergence : so anybody with a &quot;decent&quot; laser (lets say, 1.0mRad divergence, just to have a round number) would have a 1mm thicker beam for every meter

do the math, at 10km off the ground = 10.000meters,

1 metre -- 1mm. divergence
10.000metres - x = 10.000mm divergence = 10 meters divergence

10 METERS

TEN
METERS!

that is, sirs, a LOT compared to the 1mm that comes out of the laz0r headz0rzz

and thus at this point we can state that, a regular &quot;terrorist&quot; kid with a normal green laser pointer, rated at &gt;50mw.
would have to hit the airplane with a circle 10meters wide. at that length the dot would certainly lose some power (it doesnt just &quot;lose&quot; power, you know what i mean, it is not 100% focused into one tiny dot anymore), dont you think?

that is why i think hitting a plane with a laser can't really blind a pilot with so little concentrated power. its not that we should do it, but the news coverages are making such a big deal out of this and i just thought to do some estimates on the real facts..

share your opinions (and correct me if you may) 8-) 8-)

05-04-2008, 02:34 AM #2
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VillageIdiot
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Re: Laser Hitting Planes - Discussion

Ah, but the media and the public think that any and all lasers have a divergance of 0 mRad. Everybody seems to think that lasers go in one line continuously.

05-04-2008, 02:49 AM #3
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Razako
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Re: Laser Hitting Planes - Discussion

Lasers aren't a threat to planes that are high up in the sky. The problem is when people fire their 100+mw green laser at low flying helicopters and planes that are coming in for a landing. It is possible to flashblind the pilot to the point that he is unable to land the plane and needs to cancel the landing. That is what is happening in Australia. Lasers are also a significant threat to helicopters. Copters fly closer to the ground and a decent laser can easily cause eye damage at that range.

Of course the solution is strict enforcement of the laws and harsh penalties to deter further incidents. A retarded blanket ban on ALL laser pointers with a 2 year prison sentence for a little keychain pointer is ridiculous and impossible to enforce.
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05-04-2008, 02:51 AM #4
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nikokapo
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Re: Laser Hitting Planes - Discussion

Agreed.

05-04-2008, 03:06 AM #5
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Murudai
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Re: Laser Hitting Planes - Discussion

Yeah, it's landing planes that are the problem, not those already in the air.

Hopefully the new laws in Australia won't last. They really are useless, banning them doesn't stop people from getting them. And the only place it's bad to have them is around the airports, so why should the other 99.9999999% of Australia not have lasers?

They should just enforce it around the airports, that's all that is needed.

05-04-2008, 03:19 AM #6
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nikokapo
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Re: Laser Hitting Planes - Discussion

but dude, they should be able to track a stupid guy standing IN FRONT of the landing area....even with a greenie, the beam should be traceable

05-04-2008, 03:23 AM #7
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Razako
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Re: Laser Hitting Planes - Discussion

Quote:
 Originally Posted by nikokapo but dude, they should be able to track a stupid guy standing IN FRONT of the landing area....even with a greenie, the beam should be traceable
Australia seems to have a lot of incompetent cops/government officials.
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05-04-2008, 03:31 AM #8
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Murudai
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Re: Laser Hitting Planes - Discussion

Quote:
 Originally Posted by nikokapo but dude, they should be able to track a stupid guy standing IN FRONT of the landing area....even with a greenie, the beam should be traceable
That's EXACTLY my point

I mean, surely it would be easier to enforce just around a landing strip rather than all of the country :-? I think they've totally missed the issue and gone all paranoid. If there is only one specific issue you want to manage, then introduce management and laws to actually deal with the issue, and don't dilute it out over a much larger area...

*smacks government*

05-04-2008, 03:55 AM #9
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nikokapo
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Re: Laser Hitting Planes - Discussion

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Murudai [quote author=nikokapo link=1209868110/0#5 date=1209871160]but dude, they should be able to track a stupid guy standing IN FRONT of the landing area....even with a greenie, the beam should be traceable
That's EXACTLY my point

I mean, surely it would be easier to enforce just around a landing strip rather than all of the country *:-? I think they've totally missed the issue and gone all paranoid. If there is only one specific issue you want to manage, then introduce management and laws to actually deal with the issue, and don't dilute it out over a much larger area...

*smacks government* [/quote]

i can already see modifications on &quot;Meet the parents&quot; so ben stiller says LASER instead of BOMB inside the airplane :P

05-04-2008, 04:03 AM #10
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Murudai
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Re: Laser Hitting Planes - Discussion

Hey, that gets me thinking.

What are the rules about actually taking a laser ON the plane? I'm mean, surely you can't just walk on with your 500mW beast...

05-04-2008, 05:23 AM #11
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spyrorocks
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Re: Laser Hitting Planes - Discussion

Heres a quick diagram I made:

[img]http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6458/********necc3.png[/img]

Notice how far away from the plane you would have to be to actually get a shot at the cockpit? That level of divergence isn't exactly unrealistic either.
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05-04-2008, 05:23 AM #12
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Dr_Evil
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Re: Laser Hitting Planes - Discussion

I don't think there will be a problem if you don't carry the batteries in your carry on. Who knows though.
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05-04-2008, 02:09 PM #13
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Dingers
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Re: Laser Hitting Planes - Discussion

If someone was really serious about it they'd mount a 500mW Hercules with a x10dr beam expander,
on top of a rifle in a prone position with a bipod on the crest of a hill facing directly into the landing planes.

You could pretty much trace the cockpit perfectly if you were a good shot,
oh and kill 300 odd people.

---

I expect the Federal Police are about to burst through my doors and windows in kevlar body armor,
sub-machine guns and flashbang grenades after that post.

05-04-2008, 02:29 PM #14
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Murudai
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Re: Laser Hitting Planes - Discussion

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Dingers I expect the Federal Police are about to burst through my doors and windows in kevlar body armor, sub-machine guns and flashbang grenades after that post.
...

05-04-2008, 02:59 PM #15
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Dingers
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Re: Laser Hitting Planes - Discussion

Is that a witchity grub in your avatar?

05-04-2008, 06:32 PM #16
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SMIDSY
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Re: Laser Hitting Planes - Discussion

I disagree- the problem is not with in flight but during take off and landing. This is when there is the mot danger during a flight and the pilots need to be concentrating the most.

A green laser pointed at an aircraft during landing would be bad news.

I attach a relevant video. Its a long range shot so the distance is further than potentially during landing and take off, the plane is a single engine and whilst it is slower than a 747 it is quicker and higher than a 747 would be during landing:

I am willing to show that under these circumstances, the danger of shining a laser at a plane is:

Attached Files
 laser_plane_danger.wmv (2.72 MB, 50 views)

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