Old 02-05-2010, 02:52 PM #17
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Default Re: I f*****ng hate 10440's!!!

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Originally Posted by mfo View Post
Actually, I'm most grateful the thing didn't burst into flames and jeopardize my house, that's why I kept my cool and threw it in a cup of water.

It was a trustfire Li-Ion...
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Originally Posted by Greenmechanic View Post
I've had problems with Trustfire batteries before.(Getting hot) Switched toUltrafires, with no problems, yet.
I don't know about you but i don't think i like the word fire in my battery kinda not what you want in a battery : )....


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Old 02-05-2010, 03:10 PM #18
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Default Re: I f*****ng hate 10440's!!!

I thought only pure Lithium would react to water like that. I thought the Lithium inside of the batteries was only a salt or other material containing Lithium so to speak, hence the name Li-Ion. Thanks for the info though. I figured if I left it inside of the metal can it would have just kept getting hotter until it exploded. It felt like it was getting hotter anyway...
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Old 02-05-2010, 04:02 PM #19
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Default Re: I f*****ng hate 10440's!!!

A Lithium-ion battery (Li-ion) is a type of rechargeable battery in which lithium ions move from the anode to cathode during discharge, and from the cathode to the anode when charged. Unlike primary lithium batteries, lithium-ion cells use an intercalated lithium compound as the electrode material instead of metallic lithium.

These intercalated lithium compounds are still as reactive as pure lithium, but do burn at a slower rate. I have played around with Lithium before, and let me tell you... when you smell sulfur, thats lithium baby!!

Also another thing that came to mind just now is, by putting the battery in water arn't you shorting the battery anyway?? That couldn't possibly help in this situation either Ohh well at least no ones hurt, and hopefully we have educated people in li-ion safety.

TC all -Adrian
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Old 02-05-2010, 04:14 PM #20
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Default Re: I f*****ng hate 10440's!!!

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Originally Posted by bobhaha View Post
A Lithium-ion battery (Li-ion) is a type of rechargeable battery in which lithium ions move from the anode to cathode during discharge, and from the cathode to the anode when charged. Unlike primary lithium batteries, lithium-ion cells use an intercalated lithium compound as the electrode material instead of metallic lithium.

These intercalated lithium compounds are still as reactive as pure lithium, but do burn at a slower rate. I have played around with Lithium before, and let me tell you... when you smell sulfur, thats lithium baby!!

Also another thing that came to mind just now is, by putting the battery in water arn't you shorting the battery anyway?? That couldn't possibly help in this situation either Ohh well at least no ones hurt, and hopefully we have educated people in li-ion safety.

TC all -Adrian
Well, maybe it would have created a small short. It's not like water is as conductive as wire. Anyhow, you're right it's good no one got hurt. I guess I sort of panicked lol. Cooling it down with water seemed like the best option at the time.
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Old 02-05-2010, 07:42 PM #21
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Default Re: I f*****ng hate 10440's!!!

I had something like that happen to a brand new rechargeable AAA battery that I was using for some of my pointers. I had two of them and had them (luckily!) in a cheap 1m red pointer and all of the sudden the laser got real warm and just like you did I took the batteries out and one was real hot and the plastic case was melting. I tossed the battery into a heavy ceramic vase that was empty and just let it cool off, which it did. I figured even if it burned the vase would contain it, as ceramics are essentially fire proof. I didn't add any water.

But I was certain the faulty battery had killed my laser (I was sooooo glad it wasn't in one of my expensive pointers!), which is of no concern for a 1mw red as they are a dime a dozen, but this was my very first laser pointer and it has sentimental value. However, I put in a set of regular alkaline batteries and thankfully it worked just fine. In my case it obviously wasn't the laser as it wasn't damaged at all.

I use rechargeable AA batteries all the time for my camera and never had that happen, only with this one AAA battery. I also have one of those "oddball" recharegable batteries I use for my yellow pointer, but never had any trouble with that one either.
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Old 02-05-2010, 07:52 PM #22
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Default Re: I f*****ng hate 10440's!!!

One thing is for sure. For all of my future builds, I am staying away from these 10440's. They have been problematic since the very first one I built.
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Old 02-05-2010, 07:59 PM #23
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Default Re: I f*****ng hate 10440's!!!

Interesting. Mfo, thanks for letting us know.I never used any 10440 batteries in my projects and after reading this thread I don't think I will use any in the future.
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Old 02-05-2010, 08:02 PM #24
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Default Re: I f*****ng hate 10440's!!!

i had the same thing happening mine looked like a faulty protect circuid since the plastic near the bottom (the place of this circuit ) and along side the strip between + and the pcb melted right off, this happend just after i took it out of a protected charger and putted it in a flashlight and thnx guys for the warning bout lithium + water i was bout to trow water over it when it happend but i just trew it outside on the concrete
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Old 02-05-2010, 08:32 PM #25
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Default Re: I f*****ng hate 10440's!!!

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Interesting. Mfo, thanks for letting us know.I never used any 10440 batteries in my projects and after reading this thread I don't think I will use any in the future.
Np. It's unfortunate that I used the Rkcstr driver with my PHR pen build. Not that there's anything wrong with the Rkcstr driver, I just don't like having to use these horrible lithiums now. I use CR2 Lithiums and I have not had a problem with them yet.
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Old 02-05-2010, 09:09 PM #26
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Default Re: I f*****ng hate 10440's!!!

protected 10440's are kinda new, arent they? I get the feeling like they use the same circuit as other cells, which is wrong since 10440 can't handle the currents that larger cells can.

It's still a bad sign when a "protected" cell doesn't offer that muc hprotection... Glad you weren't hurt!
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Old 02-08-2010, 11:35 AM #27
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Default Re: I f*****ng hate 10440's!!!

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protected 10440's are kinda new, arent they? I get the feeling like they use the same circuit as other cells, which is wrong since 10440 can't handle the currents that larger cells can.

It's still a bad sign when a "protected" cell doesn't offer that muc hprotection... Glad you weren't hurt!


Here is a pic of what a lith cell looks like after it vents in your laser

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Old 02-08-2010, 05:07 PM #28
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Default Re: I f*****ng hate 10440's!!!

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These intercalated lithium compounds are still as reactive as pure lithium, but do burn at a slower rate.
So which one is it? If they are as reactive, they should burn at the same rate in air or water too.

As far as i know all lithium in rechargables is in ionic species - dissolved Li+ ions, LiCoO2 or Li2O. The latter will still react pretty violently with water, though nothing like the metallic lithium in the video - this kind is found only in primary lithium cells.

One of the safer ways to get rid of a battery that looks like its about to explode, is dropping it in a pan with a lid, without any water in it... and getting that outside asap. Hold the pan by its handles, poiting the lid straight up and not at your face though
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Old 02-10-2010, 02:14 AM #29
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Default Re: I f*****ng hate 10440's!!!

Quote:
So which one is it? If they are as reactive, they should burn at the same rate in air or water too.

As far as i know all lithium in rechargables is in ionic species - dissolved Li+ ions, LiCoO2 or Li2O. The latter will still react pretty violently with water, though nothing like the metallic lithium in the video - this kind is found only in primary lithium cells.

One of the safer ways to get rid of a battery that looks like its about to explode, is dropping it in a pan with a lid, without any water in it... and getting that outside asap. Hold the pan by its handles, poiting the lid straight up and not at your face though
Sorry what I meant was.. it will react the same way as pure lithium, but will burn slower due to impurities.
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Old 02-19-2010, 03:18 AM #30
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Exclamation Re: I f*****ng hate 10440's!!!

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Originally Posted by jander6442 View Post
Here is a pic of what a lith cell looks like after it vents in your laser

One of my first Dildas... I accidentally mixed one charged with one un charged whoops! check the burn on my finger.The spring was so hot it coiled itself
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Old 02-19-2010, 04:40 AM #31
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Default Re: I f*****ng hate 10440's!!!

I keep a metal container and a bag of sand in any room I store or use lithium batteries. I sometimes think I'm crazy, but stories like this remind me it could possibly save my life some day.

Sandbags are a great way to put out a fire of that magnitude, the sand isn't flammable and its thermal mass is enough to absorb the heat of the fire and put it out. You'll also have a glass souvenir after to remember how your house could have been burnt down.

Mfo, you got lucky. Water is a bad idea for lithium fires, or any alkaline metal.
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