Old 10-02-2011, 01:33 AM #1
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Default Getting sick of the lazerer.com pseduo-SPAM

At first I couldn't put my finger on it. It just "felt" like the lazerer.com attention was not entirely genuine. But the posts kept coming, and in many cases, from users that didn't seem to be spammers. Indeed many respected members have reviewed their lasers.

Yet something didn't feel right. For a site that has only been registered a few months, they were all of a sudden dominating the conversation of relatively new members, seeking to buy cheap chinese lasers. The reviews kept pouring in -

http://laserpointerforums.com/f52/la...tos-65899.html
http://laserpointerforums.com/f52/65...com-66123.html
http://laserpointerforums.com/f52/re...ter-66755.html
http://laserpointerforums.com/f52/re...les-67415.html
http://laserpointerforums.com/f52/re...rer-65942.html
In fact, there are dozens of these threads if you take a look back through the last two or three months:
Laser Pointer Forums - Discuss Lasers & Laser Pointers - Search Results

And they all conform fairly closely to the same format..... So I did some research, and I figured out exactly what that format was:

It's the format that lazerer.com SUGGESTS you write a review in, on a forum, in order for them to refund you 5% of your purchase price.
Reviews for Rewards

I don't know about anyone else, but in my mind, this is spam. It's a fine line, and I'm sure the lazerer fanboys will defend the practice of giving out monetary compensation for forum threads, but as far as I see it, this is just a slightly more complex spam scheme. Instead of paying employees to post forum threads, you're paying customers to do it.

I for one would love to see a moratorium on Lazerer.com "reviews".


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Old 10-02-2011, 01:51 AM #2
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Default Re: Getting sick of the lazerer.com pseduo-SPAM

Well that's going to get very annoying influx of reviews repeated and repeated.
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Old 10-02-2011, 01:54 AM #3
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Default Re: Getting sick of the lazerer.com pseduo-SPAM

If these guys are being reimbursed for a review it should be stated. A biased review is worthless in my opinion, and receiving compensation is a pretty good way to make a review biased.

It's a shame the members of this forum can be bought like that.
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Old 10-02-2011, 02:02 AM #4
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Default Re: Getting sick of the lazerer.com pseduo-SPAM

That puts a lot of things in a new light. They do at least state to post an honest review and suggest you list any cons.
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Old 10-02-2011, 02:06 AM #5
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Default Re: Getting sick of the lazerer.com pseduo-SPAM

Confirming that I am a shill for Lazerer.

Now give me my 74.9 cents!

^ That's sarcasm.


But yeah, people should probably let us know if they've made the review to get 5% back on their purchase. The thing is, according to Lazerer, they don't even care if it's a bad review... they'll still give you money back. So why lie in your review?

In truth, I'm getting sick of hearing about Lazerer myself, but what are you going to do? People are happy with what they've received so far. So we've got what seems like a credible laser vendor where we can get good stuff for a reasonable price. That's good right? When it stops being good, don't but their stuff, plain and simple.

Like I mentioned in another thread, it's called guerilla marketing. Welcome to the 21st century. As far as stifling reviews? heh You're free to not read any Lazerer reviews from now on.

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Old 10-02-2011, 02:15 AM #6
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Default Re: Getting sick of the lazerer.com pseduo-SPAM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhd View Post
At first I couldn't put my finger on it. It just "felt" like the lazerer.com attention was not entirely genuine. But the posts kept coming, and in many cases, from users that didn't seem to be spammers. Indeed many respected members have reviewed their lasers.

Yet something didn't feel right. For a site that has only been registered a few months, they were all of a sudden dominating the conversation of relatively new members, seeking to buy cheap chinese lasers. The reviews kept pouring in -

http://laserpointerforums.com/f52/la...tos-65899.html
http://laserpointerforums.com/f52/65...com-66123.html
http://laserpointerforums.com/f52/re...ter-66755.html
http://laserpointerforums.com/f52/re...les-67415.html
http://laserpointerforums.com/f52/re...rer-65942.html
In fact, there are dozens of these threads if you take a look back through the last two or three months:
Laser Pointer Forums - Discuss Lasers & Laser Pointers - Search Results

And they all conform fairly closely to the same format..... So I did some research, and I figured out exactly what that format was:

It's the format that lazerer.com SUGGESTS you write a review in, on a forum, in order for them to refund you 5% of your purchase price.
Reviews for Rewards

I don't know about anyone else, but in my mind, this is spam. It's a fine line, and I'm sure the lazerer fanboys will defend the practice of giving out monetary compensation for forum threads, but as far as I see it, this is just a slightly more complex spam scheme. Instead of paying employees to post forum threads, you're paying customers to do it.

I for one would love to see a moratorium on Lazerer.com "reviews".
Sorry.... Can't agree with you...

I bought a 1W Laser from them and am very happy with the
out put specs compared to my own metering..

I was not obliged to write a review nor did I... but if someone
asks about Lazerer.com I will confirm that they sell up to spec
Lasers as advertised...

You should be jumping down the throat of WL rather than a
supplier that sends out what you ordered...

You weren't here when WL was giving away FREE $500-$1000
Lasers to hopefully get Reviews Posted on this Forum...

That advertising ploy worked to turn around the pathetic
reputation they had... And with the Arctic their reputation is now
pathetically back where it was before...

Whether a seller gives you a free Laser or Gives you a Discount Coupon
or gives you a Discount Refund they are paying for a review whether
Positive or Negative... It can swing both ways...

Marketing is a strange beast... You almost sound like a disgruntled
competitor...

I honestly see no spamming... It's a smart marketing technique..IMO


Jerry
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Old 10-02-2011, 07:33 AM #7
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Default Re: Getting sick of the lazerer.com pseduo-SPAM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhd View Post
At first I couldn't put my finger on it. It just "felt" like the lazerer.com attention was not entirely genuine. But the posts kept coming, and in many cases, from users that didn't seem to be spammers. Indeed many respected members have reviewed their lasers.

Yet something didn't feel right. For a site that has only been registered a few months, they were all of a sudden dominating the conversation of relatively new members, seeking to buy cheap chinese lasers. The reviews kept pouring in -

http://laserpointerforums.com/f52/la...tos-65899.html
http://laserpointerforums.com/f52/65...com-66123.html
http://laserpointerforums.com/f52/re...ter-66755.html
http://laserpointerforums.com/f52/re...les-67415.html
http://laserpointerforums.com/f52/re...rer-65942.html
In fact, there are dozens of these threads if you take a look back through the last two or three months:
Laser Pointer Forums - Discuss Lasers & Laser Pointers - Search Results

And they all conform fairly closely to the same format..... So I did some research, and I figured out exactly what that format was:

It's the format that lazerer.com SUGGESTS you write a review in, on a forum, in order for them to refund you 5% of your purchase price.
Reviews for Rewards

I don't know about anyone else, but in my mind, this is spam. It's a fine line, and I'm sure the lazerer fanboys will defend the practice of giving out monetary compensation for forum threads, but as far as I see it, this is just a slightly more complex spam scheme. Instead of paying employees to post forum threads, you're paying customers to do it.

I for one would love to see a moratorium on Lazerer.com "reviews".
As I recall that was the reason LPF was created... so that companies could be discussed freely... no? Moratorium would defeat the core purpose of lpf imo.

If you want to go after pseudo-spam, how about looking at all the crap that DD got away with posting for months on end? Including plenty of flat out lies.

I do have to agree that I'm also a bit sick of hearing about the company, but how is a moratorium an answer?

The problem is not so much with the company as it is with a lack of choices we have.

There are only three CHEAP semi trustworthy laser selling companies out there at the moment;

1. O-Like
2. Rayfoss
3. Lazerer

Looking back through the forum, there are also dozens and dozens of reviews for both o-like and rayfoss... more of them than for lazerer, though not lately. Why do you think that is? (Here's one: http://laserpointerforums.com/f41/o-...nce-60111.html)

It's because Lazerer happens to be the new company... and it is doing some things that have been demanded of chinese sellers for a loooong time.

For example it personally pissed me off to no end to even offer $10 to Susie over at o-like both via email and chat to have them LPM the lasers I ordered. They didn't all. All I got was a generic, "your laser will be up to spec or you can ship back" response. (Never mind that they don't cover return shipping and it has to be tracked, or that when I did send a defective laser back and it was signed for, they claimed to not have gotten it for two weeks after that, until I had to threaten to go through the post office with a claim.)

At the same time, rayfoss has gone downhill lately, over last 3-4 months there have been a few reviews of people complaining about them. Personally I trust rayfoss when it comes to components, but not complete lasers.

So where does that leave us as cheap companies are concerned?

Consider that most people coming on here are in fact looking to buy their first good, but cheap laser. They aren't going to be buying from companies like jetlaser, opto, lg, right away(maybe never). So when someone asks, what cheap company they should to buy a laser from... what would you suggest telling them? A company that has so far lived up to it's promises, or one of the other two that lives up to promises sometimes?

Lastly have a question on format for you... Exactly how would you structure a review if not a general description, photos, followed by pros, cons, and overall conclusion. Call me crazy, but that's what most reviews are comprised of

Edit: You know what's funny, Max actually asked me not to write reviews for the lasers I got from him (I got 6 in total so far, reviewed only two)... because he didn't want to seem to be spamming the review section. The only reason I reviewed the mini arctic is that the output was below the 1W that he advertised, and there were also no side by side comparisons to the arctic. For the 650nm, because there were no reviews on it at all.

I think this is really a case of a company being somewhat a victim of it's own success. Which imo is not a bad thing. Maybe o-like, rayfoss, and whatever other companies out there can emulate... to their benefit and ours

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Old 10-02-2011, 07:40 AM #8
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Default Re: Getting sick of the lazerer.com pseduo-SPAM

I don't see why this matters as long as they provide good service.

And this just means they are that much more complex than the countless chinese dropshippers who attempt to pass off their underspec models.
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Old 10-02-2011, 03:30 PM #9
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Default Re: Getting sick of the lazerer.com pseduo-SPAM

If reviewers disclosed that they were receiving some sort of compensation, then that's a different story.

Jerry, just because someone (IE, WL) is behaving worse, doesn't make this behavior legitimate. That's a fairly established principal in life.

I see a few perspectives here, but the bottom line is that there IS an accepted ethic on this point, and that ethic is to disclaim when you're receiving compensation of any sort for your opinion. Period.

Lazerer may be just fine. You'll notice that I'm not commenting on their service, nor their product. I'm commenting on their marketing ethic, and by extension, on the ethic of those that review their products without disclosing the incentive received. It's an accepted standard that when receiving compensation for your opinion (good or bad), you disclose it. It's absolutely simple. One line, at the beginning of a review, stating "I'm taking advantage of a 5% refund in exchange for writing this review".

If there is any doubt, just lookup the recent drama surrounding "Mommy bloggers" who were taking compensation, discounts, or subsidized products in exchange for their reviews of products. It was a scandal, and they were heavily criticized for exactly the practice we see with lazerer.
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Last edited by rhd; 10-02-2011 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 10-02-2011, 03:40 PM #10
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Default Re: Getting sick of the lazerer.com pseduo-SPAM

Never followed any review suggestions from LAZERER, they didnīt even send me one
http://laserpointerforums.com/f52/re...0-a-65718.html

(not finished yet )
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Old 10-02-2011, 08:18 PM #11
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Default Re: Getting sick of the lazerer.com pseduo-SPAM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhd View Post
Jerry, just because someone (IE, WL) is behaving worse, doesn't make this behavior legitimate. That's a fairly established principal in life.
Kind of hope you meant EG, as in "for example".
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Old 10-02-2011, 08:21 PM #12
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Default Re: Getting sick of the lazerer.com pseduo-SPAM

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
Kind of hope you meant EG, as in "for example".
He just PM'd me, he said it was you






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Old 10-02-2011, 08:24 PM #13
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Default Re: Getting sick of the lazerer.com pseduo-SPAM

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhd View Post
Jerry, just because someone (IE, WL) is behaving worse, doesn't make this behavior legitimate.
Kind of hope you meant EG, as in "for example".
i.e. - From the Lain "id est"
Meaning "That is to say" or "in this case"

Correcting someone's grammar on the internet is lame enough on its own.

But it's even lamer, when you get your correction wrong
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Last edited by rhd; 10-02-2011 at 08:26 PM.
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Old 10-02-2011, 08:27 PM #14
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Default Re: Getting sick of the lazerer.com pseduo-SPAM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhd View Post
i.e. - From the Lain "id est"
Meaning "That is to say" or "in this case"

Correcting someone's grammar on the internet is lame enough on its own.

But it's even lamer, when you get your correction wrong
Might have been nice to simply include the periods in the first place

Edit, call me crazy, but I just don't feel like being compared or associated with anything WL does.

Last edited by InfinitusEquitas; 10-02-2011 at 08:29 PM.
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Old 10-02-2011, 08:33 PM #15
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Default Re: Getting sick of the lazerer.com pseduo-SPAM

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
Might have been nice to simply include the periods in the first place

Edit, call me crazy, but I just don't feel like being compared or associated with anything WL does.
Oh, lol - I totally spaced on the reason you were taking offense

IE = InfinitusEquitas - gotcha!

Not my intended usage here
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Old 10-02-2011, 08:52 PM #16
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Default Re: Getting sick of the lazerer.com pseduo-SPAM

@rhd,

I have made one of the reviews that you have posted in this thread, and I've said it once, and this is the second time I say the same:

I bought the laser in question to the sale price on the web, NOT a penny more or a penny less.

I have NOT asked any discount or anything else.

I did this honest review because I wanted to do it, so that people know a little better
the lasers that sell this new company and make an idea before they buy, or not.

I have NOT had ANY benefit of any kind making this review, and I do NOT want to have.

There are still people who want to help without anything in return, I hope this time it is clear.
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