The beginning of the end for USA hobbyists

Incidents of lasers being pointed at aircraft in the USA has almost doubled in the past year to nearly 3000.
I would say that this marks the beginning of the end for USA laser hobbyists and tighter customs inspections and enforcement are just around the corner.

FAA: Laser incidents soar, threaten planes - Yahoo! News

Let them try to take my lasers muwhaha!.

bootleg2go said:

Incidents of lasers being pointed at aircraft in the USA has almost doubled in the past year to nearly 3000.
I would say that this marks the beginning of the end for USA laser hobbyists and tighter customs inspections and enforcement are just around the corner.

FAA: Laser incidents soar, threaten planes - Yahoo! News

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All the more reason why this thread needs as much attention as we can muster: http://laserpointerforums.com/f44/i...rs-your-right-own-import-them-read-58836.html

Also, I really wish that when people post these "gloom and doom" posts they would also take the time to offer insight on ways to help the situation. We already know how fragile our hobby is and we already know how incredibly stupid people can be. Not to mention there has got to be 900 other posts here that are exactly like the OP in this thread. This is not news. Either contribute towards saving our hobby or do nothing and watch it vanish. By posting redundant posts with old news in them without offering any help towards doing what we can to save the hobby, you've chosen the latter.

All of those incidents and no real damage caused so far. Anyway what would a ban even accomplish? There's already a shitload of lasers here and everybody would stock up ahead of time to sell them for a profit after the import ban. Also with future projector technology it's only a matter of time before people can make DIY lasers in all colors.

Also as I've said before: Social deviants will ALWAYS find ways to be disruptive. If you take away their lasers they'll just go back to arson and throwing bricks off the overpass.

ElektroFreak said:

All the more reason why this thread needs as much attention as we can muster: http://laserpointerforums.com/f44/i...rs-your-right-own-import-them-read-58836.html

Also, I really wish that when people post these "gloom and doom" posts they would also take the time to offer insight on ways to help the situation. We already know how fragile our hobby is and we already know how incredibly stupid people can be. Not to mention there has got to be 900 other posts here that are exactly like the OP in this thread. This is not news. Either contribute towards saving our hobby or do nothing and watch it vanish. By posting redundant posts with old news in them without offering any help towards doing what we can to save the hobby, you've chosen the latter.

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Hi ElectroFreak,
Perhaps it's not news to you, but the fact the number of indecents nearly doubled in one year was news to me, so I shared it. This information was just released by the FAA today, so it's not old.

I applaud your effort at some kind of self-regulation.
I think some kind back-ground check and definitely an age check would help, but that I think would be nearly impossible as the Chinese retailers are in it only for the short term cash, but a long term investment in the hobby.
It's why I stopped selling to anyone under 18 four years ago, not that some haven't slipped through, but I've denied the sale to hundreds of individuals who I found were under 18 years of age.
Age is not all that matters, there are plenty of adults who will point at planes.
It's going to be a very hard fight as all there seems to be is bad publicity about portable lasers....that's all there is in the news, never stories about how they saved or life or something along those lines (don't know if it's ever happened or not).

Another way would be to get people to stop buying the for the sole purpose of "wanting to light things on fire or pop balloons"...what a waste of a great technology.

I know there are alot of members who do some really cool experiments, but too many just want to start a fire....I just don't get it I guess, a bic lighter or magnifying glass on a sunny day will do much better and are much cheaper as well.

That's part of the reason I began offering prism and optics kits, to stimulate experimentation with lasers as I figured popping a balloon or lighting a match might be a neat trick, I would think most would become bored with it very quickly and their laser end up unused in their drawer.

I may be rambling but I think the secret will be to get hobbyists more interested in the physics / optics aspect of the hobby.

Razako:
I agree, outlaw lasers and only the outlaws will have lasers.
I think the real key to stopping this is better GPS / technology / cameras to catch the people doing this, and put them in prison. It won't take too many news stories of someone getting years of prison for pulling a stupid stunt like thinking the can point at a plane and get away with it for others to realize it's not a good idea to give ones freedom up for doiing this kind of crap.

Why the F**K are these idiots pointing Lasers at planes in the 1st place? Do They live in a cave with no access to public media? Make the penalties severe and automatic!!!

@ bootleg
Agreed with a lot of that. IMO anyone interested in lasers solely to "burn stuff" should probably just buy some fireworks or get a magnifying glass to settle their pyro appetite. When I got my first powerful lasers I had some fun burning stuff and made some videos, but for me it's always been mostly about the beautiful beam. I haven't burned anything in years with my lasers, but shining them outdoors at night and in the occasional snowstorm/fog remains fun to this day.

Coherent Light said:

Why the F**K are these idiots pointing Lasers at planes in the 1st place? Do They live in a cave with no access to public media? Make the penalties severe and automatic!!!

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They're the same degenerate lowlifes who go around at night smashing car windows, dropping rocks off overpasses and doing other retarded shit.

so the first thing we should keep in mind when we play a laser is safty.
But I don't think it will result to tighter customs inspections and enforcement

Hey guys:

I'm in the legal field so maybe I can shed some light on the subject, of whats currently happening to lethal and non-lethal weapon sales in this country at present.

A ban on lasers will not be a viable option for local/federal government because that would be unconstitutional. As some of you may already know from current events within the last year is that the 2nd amendment (the right to bear arms) has been recently upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court during a rather large case that has just ended, overturning many gun & weapons bans in places like Washington D.C, where it was flat out Illegal to own or even carry a handgun. This has set a legal precedent (not to mention a ban would be nearly unenforceable).

Obviously if you can have a gun, this legal precedent extends down and can be applied to Clubs, Tazors, Non-lethal light emmitors that Daze their victims and yes... even to things like lasers. Even laws prohibiting the sale of fully automatic weapons are in serious jeapordy.

Worst case senario for laser enthusiasts, and what would be much more likely to happen would be a requirement that all lasers class IIIb and above, require the operator/owner to be licensed in a way similar to the way owners of firearms need to be licensed. This will entail a annual licensing fee, backround check, waiting period etc..depending on local state laws, just like firearms. This will eliminate a large percentage of laser sales, and probably put alot of vendors out of business, therefore decreasing supply and increasing price, which would again, decrease sales of lasers even further.

The reason that this theoretical lisensing law would only apply to lasers class IIIb and above is obviously because without this caveat then owning a blu ray player or cd player would require a license, which would not be feasable.

This would nip the problem in the bud, but would be very expensive to set up and enforce, so it would take alot more than a few people shining lasers at planes and some negative press to force the creation of such legislation, and it would likely not be federal, but state law, and each state would have to jump on the bandwagon.

There is one loophole, if your city has been pestered by mischevious local laser owners/operators to the point where it has become a real problem the city can pass an "Ordinance" prohibiting the public use of lasers in your city. I belive there is one in effect in NY but that may have been repealed since last I checked in 2000.

So were safe for now, but I agree with Jack education is the key to prevention.

Regards,

Sal

^^^Verrrrrry interesting. Thanks for posting that.

-Tyler

Your welcome :yh:. If you have any other questions just pm me and I may be able to find out for you at the firm I work for. The legal status of higher powered lasers right now is a grey area of much confusion as it is a relatively new technology that has gained recent public exposure.

-Sal

bootleg2go said:

It's why I stopped selling to anyone under 18 four years ago, not that some haven't slipped through, but I've denied the sale to hundreds of individuals who I found were under 18 years of age.

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And how is that going to prevent "straw" purchases?

21 CFR 1040.1.J
Sets up the administrative law. Far different from basic criminal or civil law, in many ways. Gives CDRH quite a bit of latitude on how to handle things.

Note, 21 CFR sets up the situation for the CDRH to make the rules.

Then there is the recent "Securing Cockpits Against Lasers Act"

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...sg=AFQjCNEMgEwFjqkrDFAXyZO9qv8obqug5g&cad=rja

Steve

bootleg2go said:

Hi ElectroFreak,
Perhaps it's not news to you, but the fact the number of indecents nearly doubled in one year was news to me, so I shared it. This information was just released by the FAA today, so it's not old.

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Apologies for coming off so harshly.. this is a sensitive subject for anyone involved in our hobby. You make valid points..

Arshus said:

Worst case senario for laser enthusiasts, and what would be much more likely to happen would be a requirement that all lasers class IIIb and above, require the operator/owner to be licensed in a way similar to the way owners of firearms need to be licensed. This will entail a annual licensing fee, backround check, waiting period etc..depending on local state laws, just like firearms.

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Other than background check, in most states that would amount to "none". AFAIK, most states do not require annual licensing (fed required annual tax-stamp for suppressors and allowed-full-auto), and most states have instant background check, and minimal waiting periods.

The registration that happens after the background check is barred by federal law from being centrally collected & reviewed. It can only be searched for a specific serial number used in the commission of a crime.

I for one would be happy with that type of process -- if it would keep them out of the hands of those who should not have them (too young, uneducated, someone who previously used one illegally like lasing a plane, etc.).

We here can somewhat control who We sell Lasers and components to, but most Chinese sellers could give a rats ass as to who buys their products. I don't see how the government could regulate class 4 lasers with all of the internet sales. They can try to catch them coming into the U.S. with tighter customs inspections, but some will always get through just like drugs.

My 0.02