advice for high power burning class 4 laser

dubious speculation · Jun 10, 2014

Marco Polo said:
The highlighted text, minus "lolz", is the one and only thing you've said that leaves me with any hope in hell at all that you will wise up, educate yourself, and NOT buy a class IV laser before you do so.

How would you like some of this?

Or maybe you want to "lolz" it up and get some of this?

I wish I could rep you for this ^

@nightwalker: LISTEN to what Marco polo has just stated. The consequences of careless behavior and lack of safety is NOT exaggerated.

BowtieGuy · Jun 10, 2014

@Marco Polo, right on, you nailed it perfectly!
BTW - Some great links to see and read for all those new to high power lasers!

+rep to you!

RayJay · Jun 10, 2014

Wicked Lasers has the best advertising.. That is all. Their "world record" was basically a false claim because there were higher powered custom handhelds out at the time!

Also, please tell us where you are from so we can point you in the right direction.

I agree with every word that has been said here thus far, high powered lasers(5mW+) aren't some toy! I personally think they should be treated like a gun. I never keep my batteries anywhere near my lasers and alot of the time i remove the lenses too on my 2W+ lasers.

In regards to your other question about if 3W+ are available, yes, if you look at the B/S/T here you will regularly see 445nm lasers upto 3.5W and soon because of recent advancements in diode tech, 5W+ 445nm lasers will soon be normal too!

But my final word is READ! Read, read, read and read some more! The more you learn the better.. And honestly, the more fun the hobby will be.

P.S. Welcome to the forum :beer:

NightExplorer96 · Jun 10, 2014

RayJay said:
I agree with every word that has been said here thus far, high powered lasers(50mW+) aren't some toy! I personally think they should be treated like a gun. I never keep my batteries anywhere near my lasers and alot of the time i remove the lenses too on my 2W+ lasers.

No laser is a toy, even 1mW laser pointers(even though it would take a loooong time)have the potential to cause damage

But for ease of reading I agree high-powered lasers which to me are Class IIIb(5mW+) and up must be treated with the upmost respect, once you lose your eyesight or damage due to lasers you have to live the rest of your life with it, no going back and "undoing" what you did".

@OP I would personally recommend you start with TRUE pointers between 1mW-4.9mW. Those are eye-safe and will be good practice before you move on to more dangerous lasers.

-Alex

RayJay · Jun 10, 2014

Tha Greenlander said:
high-powered lasers which to me are Class IIIb(5mW+) and up

Thanks for pointing out my mistake.. I mistakenly wrote 50 instead of 5.. Fixed now :beer:

vortish · Jun 10, 2014

As a noob my self I have seen and read of some of the danger with owning and operating these lasing devices..These are NOT toys. yea they maybe cool and can do some really cool things but just because you want the biggest baddest laser out there does not mean that you are mentally ready for ownership. I have most of my safety gear it was one of the first things i bought. If you want to buy kits that fine but your still need a couple of staples such as a Digital Voltmeter a Soldering Iron and some skill in using it.. those are needed things.. most of what you will find on the site is kits buys some parts from person (A) and some from person (B) and assemble.. you will find some for sale all together but those do not come up a lot so.. if you intrested in this hobby educate your self before you (A) hurt your self (B) hurt some one else or (C) end up in jail for doing some stupid..

sorry to be blunt but those are the facts these things are dangerous and can really hurt you get some education on the subject. PLease

The Lightning Stalker · Jun 10, 2014

My grandma was completely blind for 15 years. Take it from someone who knows first hand what it is like
to live with a blind person. Your eyes are probably the most important sense you have. You only get one
set of eyes. Blindness is a Wicked and debilitating illness. You can never be careful enough.

nightwalker · Jun 11, 2014

Alright alright ill go first with class 3b which less dangerous than the burning ones. Do u mind if i ask a question how a laser with 75 mW can have NOHD of 122 meters and a laser with 15mW with a NOHD of 144 meters..? What determine the laser burning power or beam distance ? Is it beam diameter, divergence..? Would like give me a guide on how to chose a laser pointer.

nightwalker · Jun 11, 2014

vortish said:
As a noob my self I have seen and read of some of the danger with owning and operating these lasing devices..These are NOT toys. yea they maybe cool and can do some really cool things but just because you want the biggest baddest laser out there does not mean that you are mentally ready for ownership. I have most of my safety gear it was one of the first things i bought. If you want to buy kits that fine but your still need a couple of staples such as a Digital Voltmeter a Soldering Iron and some skill in using it.. those are needed things.. most of what you will find on the site is kits buys some parts from person (A) and some from person (B) and assemble.. you will find some for sale all together but those do not come up a lot so.. if you intrested in this hobby educate your self before you (A) hurt your self (B) hurt some one else or (C) end up in jail for doing some stupid..

Alright thanks for your advices i wont get a class 4 laser now..maybe less powerful is better for me now till i learn more about laser techniques ..so are class 3b still too dangerous ? Or should i go for lower ?

upaa27 · Jun 11, 2014

nightwalker said:
Alright alright ill go first with class 3b which less dangerous than the burning ones. Do u mind if i ask a question how a laser with 75 mW can have NOHD of 122 meters and a laser with 15mW with a NOHD of 144 meters..? What determine the laser burning power or beam distance ? Is it beam diameter, divergence..? Would like give me a guide on how to chose a laser pointer.

For your first question the NOHD usually varies depending on the wavelength as the more visible a beam is, the more hazardous it is to the eyes without staring into the diode. You can have a 50mw 445nm and a 40mw 520nm and the 520nm will be more dangerous as it is higher on the visible spectrum. HOWEVER the 50mw is more dangerous if you stare into the diode while lasing as it is emitting more power but is less visible. The "burning" power of a laser is usually determined by the wavelength and power. This is where it gets kind of weird. USUALLY the lower the beam's wavelength, the more it will be able to burn with less power as it is more "focused." Although, the more focused a laser is at a certain point, the faster it will diverge over a distance. This is why the lens matters a lot for choosing how you want it focused. For example if you wanted a steady amount of power over a distance you would usually try to find the sweet spot where you will not get as much divergence although the beam will have to travel farther for it's full power to show. You can never(at least in my experience) get your beam to maintain a steady output for infinity. Finally, obviously the more power(measured in watts) you feed the diode, the more it will output or "burn." However, the more power you feed the more your laser will overheat and the process of depolarization will begin to take effect. Basically a power drop. Depending on your heat dispersion methods the power drop will happen slowly or very quickly. Do NOT fire a laser diode without proper heat sinking or any other heat dispersion methods as you will kill the diode pretty fast. Also don't stick a diode directly to the batteries as the diode will maintain its power output but will increase resistance and slowly require more power to keep this up. This will increase heat a lot and the diode will die extremely fast. Always regulate current via a driver. Drivers limit current(amperes) to the diode so that it does not require more to maintain firing. An analogy is, if you are thirsty and want a drink you would drink through a straw instead of pouring the water into your mouth as you will waste more water than needed to quench your thirst and will be wet and uncomfortable and you have another problem. I hope this helps as making a laser is an extremely difficult process. These facts I stated are the basic principles that I use to make lasers so feel free to correct me if I am wrong guys.

Good luck man,
:beer:

nightwalker · Jun 11, 2014

Marco Polo said:
The highlighted text, minus "lolz", is the one and only thing you've said that leaves me with any hope in hell at all that you will wise up, educate yourself, and NOT buy a class IV laser before you do so.

This isn't a baseless fear - if you know nothing about laser physics, or even basic CONCEPTS, like wavelength... then why should we have any confidence that your understanding of safety, and of the MANY things that can go wrong, is any better?

Im not a pro in this field but i still know about laser basic concepts...maybe sending me a link of choosing a laser pointer would be good for me

nightwalker · Jun 11, 2014

upaa27 said:
For your first question the NOHD usually varies depending on the wavelength as the more visible a beam is, the more hazardous it is to the eyes without staring into the diode. You can have a 50mw 445nm and a 40mw 520nm and the 520nm will be more dangerous as it is higher on the visible spectrum. HOWEVER the 50mw is more dangerous if you stare into the diode while lasing as it is emitting more power but is less visible. The "burning" power of a laser is usually determined by the wavelength and power. This is where it gets kind of weird. USUALLY the lower the beam's wavelength, the more it will be able to burn with less power as it is more "focused." Although, the more focused a laser is at a certain point, the faster it will diverge over a distance. This is why the lens matters a lot for choosing how you want it focused. For example if you wanted a steady amount of power over a distance you would usually try to find the sweet spot where you will not get as much divergence although the beam will have to travel farther for it's full power to show. You can never(at least in my experience) get your beam to maintain a steady output for infinity. Finally, obviously the more power(measured in watts) you feed the diode, the more it will output or "burn." However, the more power you feed the more your laser will overheat and the process of depolarization will begin to take effect. Basically a power drop. Depending on your heat dispersion methods the power drop will happen slowly or very quickly. Do NOT fire a laser diode without proper heat sinking or any other heat dispersion methods as you will kill the diode pretty fast. Also don't stick a diode directly to the batteries as the diode will maintain its power output but will increase resistance and slowly require more power to keep this up. This will increase heat a lot and the diode will die extremely fast. Always regulate current via a driver. Drivers limit current(amperes) to the diode so that it does not require more to maintain firing. An analogy is, if you are thirsty and want a drink you would drink through a straw instead of pouring the water into your mouth as you will waste more water than needed to quench your thirst and will be wet and uncomfortable and you have another problem. I hope this helps as making a laser is an extremely difficult process. These facts I stated are the basic principles that I use to make lasers so feel free to correct me if I am wrong guys.

Alright thanks man for these info +1 rep

Marco Polo · Jun 11, 2014

upaa27 said:
For your first question the NOHD usually varies depending on the wavelength as the more visible a beam is, the more hazardous it is to the eyes without staring into the diode. You can have a 50mw 445nm and a 40mw 520nm and the 520nm will be more dangerous as it is higher on the visible spectrum.

This is incorrect.

Green is not more "dangerous" than other wavelengths. Green looks brighter because the photoreceptors in your eyes respond to it more strongly than to other wavelengths, not because green is somehow "more powerful". In fact, green is actually LESS dangerous than other colors, because the strong photoreceptor response triggers your iris, blink, and general aversion reflexes at a lower level of power.

Compare, say, 532nm (green) and 405nm (violet), aimed at a white wall, 10 feet or so away. 500mW in each case. The green dot is going to look brilliantly, painfully bright. You won't enjoy looking directly at it for long. But the violet dot probably won't cause you any discomfort at all, even if you look at it for minutes on end. Both lasers are 500mW, however, and both will do the same amount of damage to your eyes.

Now throw a couple NIR's out there too, 808nm and 980nm. At 500mW the 808nm will be barely visible at all, maybe a dull purple-red dot, no visible beam. The 980nm will be totally invisible and your eyes will not react to it at all. Both of them will do the same damage as the green and violet, because they are 500mW, and on a direct hit, damage is determined by power, not wavelength.

There is another danger to consider as well: It's easy to forget that the 405nm is 500mW, because it's so dim. Violet lasers all tend to look alike, even comparing lower power vs high. A 500mW violet isn't *that* much brighter than an 80mW ebay violet, despite being more than 6 times as powerful. With infrared lasers it's even worse because on top of this, things like reflection hazards become a lot harder to avoid.

The green, on the other hand, is so bright at 500mW that it hurts your eyes just looking at the dot, so you KNOW it's nothing to mess around with - and that makes you act more carefully.

In other words - on a direct hit, power is dangerous, not wavelength. In terms of psychology and your eye's (lack of) response, less-visible wavelengths are more dangerous than highly-visible ones, because your aversion doesn't kick in, which can lead to complacency and carelessness, IF you allow that to happen.

THIS stuff is what I mean by knowing basic facts and whatnot....

ETA:

nightwalker said:
Im not a pro in this field but i still know about laser basic concepts...maybe sending me a link of choosing a laser pointer would be good for me

Tell me about wavelength again?

This is the kind of think-you-know-it-all attitude that gets people injured and into trouble. Sorry I can't help.

Encap · Jun 11, 2014

nightwalker said:
hello fellow laser lovers. Im new to the site
i want to buy the most powerful portable burning laser with the highest output power and beam distance

Have a look at JetLasers 445nm PL-E Pro---they make a 4.5W focusable and a 5W fixed focus ---excellent professional level quality product and best customer services in the business.

Protective goggles are a must while using . A 4.5W or 5W is a very dangerous laser-not a toy.
If you are not fully familiar with safety issues and/or don't plan on using safely--do not buy one.

See:
445nm PL-E Pro 3.5W, 4W, 4.5W and 5W Lasers, PL-E Pro 445nm blue Laser

Click to expand...

RayJay · Jun 11, 2014

Marco Polo.. I disagree. What Upaa27 was trying to say was that white wall reflection damage from a 520nm laser will be greater than the white wall refection damage of a dimmer WL. Unless i took what he said the wrong way.
But, you are right on the latter point that direct hit damage will be the same no matter what the WL only the output.

upaa27 said:
as the more visible a beam is, the more hazardous it is to the eyes without staring into the diode.
You can have a 50mw 445nm and a 40mw 520nm and the 520nm will be more dangerous as it is higher on the visible spectrum.
HOWEVER the 50mw is more dangerous if you stare into the diode while lasing as it is emitting more power but is less visible.

upaa27 said:
I hope this helps as making a laser is an extremely difficult process.

Ahhh No its not at all? Just read for 20 minutes and learn how to solder 2 wires and you can make a laser in half an hour!

Marco Polo · Jun 11, 2014

RayJay said:
Marco Polo.. I disagree. What Upaa27 was trying to say was that white wall reflection damage from a 520nm laser will be greater than the white wall refection damage of a dimmer WL. Unless i took what he said the wrong way.
But, you are right on the latter point that direct hit damage will be the same no matter what the WL only the output.

Assuming equal reflectance for all visible wavelengths, it comes down to a) beam power, and b) the eye's response to the wavelength in question.

If green, your pupil will constrict, blocking out most of the light.

If violet, your pupil will probably not constrict, because it's not a very visible wavelength. That will allow much more of the light to enter the eyes.

That would make dimmer wavelengths more "dangerous."

advice for high power burning class 4 laser

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