Old 06-22-2010, 08:47 PM #17
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Default Re: 1W 445nm vs 2W 808nm

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Originally Posted by H4xS4w View Post
None taken, and I completely understand. Which is why I'm here!

I have already purchased the Arctic (order # 52,XXX), but have absolutely NO intention of using it anytime soon. Having a special room built out in my basement specifically for this which will take another week at minimum. (I can already see the cringes on peoples faces, but I'm not an irresponsible/immature person, have been handling high powered rifles and pistols all my life, therfore do possess a reasonable understanding of safety, caution, and attention to detail.)

So, in addition to my previous question regarding the possibilities of focusing factory lasers, my next question is the reliability of the LaserShades provided by WL.

I've read several topics that indicate both their adequacies as well as inadequacies, so I'm a bit confused. The Arctic produces a beam in the wavelength of 445nm, but the LaserShades supplied are labeled as 532nm. While my logic tells me that lenses rated for a higher wavelength shoudl be sufficient for lower wavelengths as well, I'd rather not leave the safety of my eyes to a guess or mere chance. So my question:

1. Are the LaserShades sufficient protection against the Arctic?
2. If not, would anyone be able to make recommendations? (Obviously, with my vision at stake, price isn't TOO much of a concern, but I'd rather not overpay if possible.)

Thank you all for your help and guidance!
Regarding focusing lasers...
All you need is a convex lens.

Unfortunately, goggles do not work that way. The lower wavelengths are not blocked by anything that is rated for a higher wavelength.
If the WL goggles are anything like the ones I received from them free with one of my purchases, they are garbage when it comes to blocking 445nm.
The $10 goggles I bought from a member here (for blocking violet laser light @ 405nm) work much better.

However, if you really want to be safe, I recommend getting some certified goggles that have a rating for 445nm.
OEM laser systems has some good ones. Unfortunately, you get what you pay for, and certified protection does not come cheap.

Search around a bit and you may find something that fits your budget and your needs.


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Old 06-22-2010, 08:52 PM #18
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Default Re: 1W 445nm vs 2W 808nm

more generally the burning power is given by the following formula:

BP=power/(π(beam diameter-beam divergence*distance)^2)/2

I'm sorry for the clumsy stile
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Old 06-22-2010, 10:30 PM #19
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Default Re: 1W 445nm vs 2W 808nm

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Originally Posted by Arayan View Post
more generally the burning power is given by the following formula:

BP=power/(π(beam diameter-beam divergence*distance)^2)/2

I'm sorry for the clumsy stile
Havn't seen that one before +rep for the tip.
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Old 06-23-2010, 12:47 AM #20
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Default Re: 1W 445nm vs 2W 808nm

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Originally Posted by RA_pierce View Post
1mW = 1mW regardless of wavelength.
I don't know why the myth still exists.

Most important for burning:

1. Material type
2. Power
3. Power density
4. Absorption (color of object)
5. Wavelength (color of laser)

Edit: My >900mW 445 can set fire to twigs, cardboard, and wood chopsticks if done correctly. My >2W 808 will ignite paper, cotton, candles, etc. nearly instantaneously... even though the beam specs on the 445nm are much better. One thousand more milliWatts goes a long way.
I thought that you can focus lower wavelengths into smaller points, thus providing a greater power density?
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Old 06-23-2010, 01:06 AM #21
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Default Re: 1W 445nm vs 2W 808nm

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Originally Posted by laser_freak View Post
I thought that you can focus lower wavelengths into smaller points, thus providing a greater power density?
You can, but our set-ups here are much too crude for any significant degree of precision, so this is irrelevant.
Attaining a beam waist in the nanometer scale is useful for writing data on discs and laboratory research.
For our uses (pointing, scanning, burning, etc.) precision optics are not required.
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Old 06-23-2010, 10:01 AM #22
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Default Re: 1W 445nm vs 2W 808nm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asherz View Post
Havn't seen that one before +rep for the tip.
Hey Asherz with this simple formula is easy to compare two lasers for their burning ability at the same distance
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Old 08-27-2013, 04:46 PM #23
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Default Re: 1W 445nm vs 2W 808nm

If you look at the sig for almost all members you will not see any IR handhelds.

The beam spot at distance is VERY large, more like that of a flashlight.

The closer you are to an IR laser the higher the danger to eyes.


Yes, they burn fast if the object is close- but the beam spreads out fast at any distance.(poor divergence) the spot is barely visible and the beam cannot be see much even in heavy fog/smoke-in the wrong hands an IR laser can be EXTREMELY dangerous- its human nature to look into the front of a common flashlight when it seems to be not working and I have seen way too many times a uneducated person do that when they see no beam coming from a laser.

Just what are you needing to burn and why do you want a burning laser??


You really can only compare 'brightness' within a certain color- a 532 at 35mW 'looks' just as bright as 1W of a blue laser. and almost EVERY 405 purple lase i have ever seen is way too dangerous for our eyes. They only look dim when they are in fact hard to see any almost any power in the air and then only with lots of fog.

for you I suggest a 200mW or more 405 laser- they tend to have a very small dot and thus a concentrated dot and burn very fast -- Your pupils will stay dialated when viewing 405 and that makes for more danger- A gereral good rule is this- when you look away do you see after-images and how long before they go away- they should dissapear in just a few seconds unless you have been viewing a laser with too much power for un-protected eyes. even just looking at the dot on a wall.
If you now own no or very few lasers go to ebay and bid low on the sets of three until you win an auction- i paid a total of 12$usd and got red/green and /purple pointers that were between 70 and 110 mW. they need a 60 second rest after a 30 second run time or you will kill them fast.

Do not expect them to last forever- and at 4$ each its still a good deal if one only lasts a month. My 4$ purple will pop a black balloon.


Buying from a *trusted* vet here at the forums is always a better way to go.

get proper eyeware BEFORE getting any lasers. if you can't afford the better brands then buy what you can and save for better- keep your first pair as 'guest goggles' for a friend to use when the move about- once seated and they are out of harms way then they can look over the glasses and enjoy your 'show'

At my house the rule is strict- if you get up and move about the glasses MUST be worn.



good luck

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Old 08-27-2013, 06:10 PM #24
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Default Re: 1W 445nm vs 2W 808nm

witchever one has a higher wattage is gonna burn more.


the difference with the price.. is that's a market type of deal not to many people what a red laser they what green or blue, therefore the red lasers are cheaper in price even though its higher power..

personally if your just getting into the hobby, dont go all out, get something a bit smaller like a 200mw green or red witchever you prefer, Because a 200-300mw will still be plenty bright and still well suited for popping balloons and so on.. if you go with anything with more power make sure you have the required eye protection, if not, you will have headaches and be seeing dots for hours. if not damage your eyes
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Old 08-27-2013, 08:25 PM #25
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Default Re: 1W 445nm vs 2W 808nm

One problem you may have would be seeing where you are pointed it for long distance burning. the spot' may be very hard to see.

pardon me for asking but just what is it you feel the need to set afire from 20 meters?

IR has the be the most boring of laser wavelengths.

I got one sent to my by accident and was told I could keep it for free- 1st chance to sell it I did and do not miss it one bit. all my 405s measure closer to 1 mm at the front of the laser 2mm at most- when I shine them and others at a wall 5 meters away the 405 by far has the smaller dot.
They burn the faces of my LPMs quicker than all others too. IMHO 405 is second only to IR in terms of danger.

I have gotten emails (from younger people in most cases) asking for a laser that will chase away neighbors dogs, cats and or wildlife.
One actually thought I would help him get a laser that would blind his neighbor' s dogs.WTF??


Some also asked for a laser that would do damage to red light cameras or kill the security cameras of their neighbors- both real bad ideas and terrible for laser hobbiests.

I never help them with this as it is just another thing that will get lasers banned.

In my experience people who run red lights do this often and this needs to stop-

And if you have a break-in I bet you would at your neighbors door in a hurry asking nicely if the bad guys were shown on the same cameras pointed your way that you wanted to ruin.

If its more fun you crave from lasers try a projector- they have the handhelds beat by miles -- and outsiders rarely have any complaints about laser shows but pointers are and will always be something others will never understand.

For the same $1000 you might spend on high powered R G and B handhelds you can own a RGB projector AND a pro software to run it with your laptop- endless creativity- welcome at any party- if you take a 'greenie'(I hate that term!!)to a party just what the hell do you plan to do with it there? Can you name three good things to do? or two or even one??

POINTERS are for the most part POINTLESS.

Most of mine are currently FS.

I will keep my favs and not miss any of the others.

hak
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Old 08-27-2013, 09:43 PM #26
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Default Re: 1W 445nm vs 2W 808nm

Quote:
Originally Posted by OmarHegazy View Post
Thank you once again for your informative message. Actually, i think the longer distances you can burn at feels better specially when using tripod.

not at all sure what you means by that-- if you are saying it proves a higher 'power' then you are correct.at least a higher burning power.

So you think the JetLasers (405nm Equality series Violet 100-150mw, divergence 3 mrad, diameter 3mm) is really food at that specs? or you recommend another one?
ATM I cannot speak much about the new EQ series , as I have not yet seen one or tested any. I can go by JL & Gray's past performance ( the Pro 473 aside) and feel that these will also be an exceptional bargain with the best quality and for sure the best and most honored warranty. I have NEVER seen any other maker offer to pay all shipping on warranty work (for the original owner within the warranty period)
On many occasions a replacement was sent before the laser in question was returned. Except for AixiZ I have never heard of any company who trusts their buyers like this. Soon there will be many new owners of EQs and they all will post some kind of review-

Let me also say this about overspec lasers- while some seem to maintain the same output as the day they arrived I have never heard of a laser that got stronger with use, so if a laser its touted as a 1W but in reality it only makes 800mW on day one, ( we have seen this MANY times) some time later it will very likley only make 750 or 700mW by sending ONLY overspec lasers JL ( & few others)assures us that even years later our JL lasers will STILL be spec or over. This is what seperates JL from the others. those companies who work this way really deserve our biz.
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