PayPal new BS - Screwing Sellers Now

cexshun said:

In this online world, what I cannot believe is that there is no hassle free way to send money to someone. I mean for the most part, 99% of your cash is digital anyway. Just 1s and 0s in the bank's computer.

So Paypal is, and always has been, a hassle with very strange rules and a poor track record in resolving disputes. But there are no alternatives. Buying a laser from an overseas member here? Yeah right, wait 2 weeks for the MO to get there, then 2 weeks for the laser to get here. While paypal does suck, I will not inconvenience myself for the sake of principle. Heck, unless local pick up, I refuse to bid on ebay if they don't have an electronic payment method.

Anyway, I guess my point is, paypal sucks. So what are you going to do? Unless it's a high ticket item, you'll lose sales asking for MO only. I suppose since you are a business, you can always get a Merchant ID and a CC processor. Not many alternatives out there.

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Yeah - I hear ya...considering the liability assumed with doing your own CC processing, and the astronomical fees associated with it - Pay-Pal's fees are a pittance compared to that. So - I suppose I am simply whining (**sigh**) but until a better alternative appears, I am pretty much stuck with it ! Since I am home-bound, I cannot get out to the bank to do deposits of checks and M.O.'s - so I only accept Pay-Pal. Dangit. SOMEONE stands to make an absolute TON of money if they ever come up with a good Pay-Pal competitor...could be the next Deca-Billionaire ! {Forest Gump, anyone ?}

Some alternatives used to exist, like Bidpay, but they were too small to go through the hassle of being certified as a bank, as paypal has been forced to. So instead of accepting money transfers from your bank or CC, you had to send them a MO, check, or *shudder* egold. It was massively complicated to fund an account, but once it was funded, it was pretty good. But they've all fallen by the wayside.

I think the best alternative is that sellers start their own processing. Alternatives like ccnow exist. The fees may be a bit higher, but probably less hassle then paypal. Last I checked, they were $10 sign up fee, $0.50 per transaction and 4.99% of gross sales.

Not directing this at any member in particular, but the online sellers seem to have rose colored goggles on. They think there should be $0 cost of doing business because it's online, and the buyers should have to eat all fees. Heck, I've refused several transactions where the buyer wanted extra $ to cover the paypal fees. It's part of doing business, and i think the internet sales world needs to step up and put on their big boy pants. You want an online business, it's no different then a real business. Step up into the real business world and realize there are no free lunches. It's costs money to make money. Again, not directed at any member, just a general rant about internet commerce in general.

I haven't found a deal on ebay in years anyway. The only things on ebay that you can get a "deal" on are older, used items. And many times even then, you have to snag a "local pickup only" item to get a good price, because the bidding pool is vastly smaller. Ebay has become a sellers market, as buyers tend to become emotionally involved in an auction. Buyers are willing to pay up to retail, because they are not "losing" any money if they win. And doesn't winning that auction feel good?

I've always employed the 70% rule. If the item in NIB, I bid 70% retail. If I get outbid, I walk away. Otherwise I may as well buy it at the store. Time is worth money. Factor in shipping, and it only saves me $10 to wait 5 days to receive an item, not to mention the inherit risk of online transactions? If I cannot save 30%, I simply drive to the store. Following trends in certain items I am interested in, I've found that 87% of the NIB items went for retail when shipping was factored in. So I really only rely on paypal for private online transactions.

I hear you about the rose colored glasses ! I ate the cost of adding in delivery confirmation on each order shipped - and since I haven't charged any shipping fees as of yet, it came out of the "bottom line". I can see that in the future, I may have to start charging some sort of shipping fee - even if it is a flat rate fee, (like $1.00 per order or something like that), or impose some sort of minimum order amount - as once you get done subtracting the cost of postage, and supplies - it can make for a TINY margin on some of the smaller items I sell !
I have never, EVER expected the mythical, "Free Lunch" as you described - it does take money to make money, and it MUST cost something to do business, I think that is one main way to filter out some of the "wanna-bees" and some of the shady folks out there...if they see that the cost of making money is so high, maybe they won't even bother, since a lot of folks are out there to simply make a fast buck, and to hell with anything else. I don't personally believe in credit cards - and don't even own one any longer - and I am reluctant to start up taking only credit card payments. I know myself, and many others prefer to be able to transfer funds direct from their bank account, rather than run up a monthly bill at an astronomical interest rate simply to buy a few items on the web. Granted, you can process debit cards also, but I would personally prefer to not be locked into only that way of payment. So, yeah - I can't REALLY complain too loudly about Pay-Pal, since it is the only form of payment I take - but I am going to whine anyways
Pay-Pal's fees can be a small thorn in my side, but I know that it is reasonable - it's their screwy way of doing things that pisses me off ! With zero justification - how the hell can they yank funds from you, to "investigate" a transaction for validity ? Makes no sense to me at all, and every time it has happened to me, {twice now} I have requested info, and attempted to open a dialog with those morons, to no avail. To me, doing business with an entity that you have no recourse for complaints - well, it agravates me to no end. Bitching and moaning to them doesn't help - it's flat out ignored, or you get a patented reply of, "Thanks for contacting us, we'll take your inquiry under advisement" and then the unspoken statement from them of, "Screw off buddy - we have your money, and there isn't anything you can do about it, except wait it out". GAH !

I wonder if CC disputes are just as futile from a seller's standpoint. I know CC companies ask no questions. Dispute a charge and they don't pay. They credit it back to your account immediately, no investigation at all.

I wonder if paypal's investigation procedures are any worse, or even in the same league as dealing with a CC chargeback. I suspect the people that complain about paypal investigations have never been on the receiving end of a chargeback. Where you don't get an email saying the money is being held. You get a letter saying "Our customer did not receive what he/she ordered. You are not getting any money, ever."

These are everyday occurrences in business, and you just have to suck it up as cost of doing business. I suspect the amateur nature of paypal based businesses is what is fueling the outrage at investigations.

Again stone, not directing these at you, but at eCommerce in general.

That's a new one on me....luckily I've been with Ebay for almost 11 years, so I got in long before most of this crap had been added on.

I haven't had too many problems with Paypal - the most aggravating one is that I keep setting my preferences so that when I purchase and print a shipping label, the money comes out of my account balance, but it keeps switching automatically back to taking the money out of my credit line. There's nothing worse than switching something and having it keep switching back....a sneaky little way to get people to run up credit debt! They are going to hear from me about that one...

Then of course there's Ebay's ban on sellers accepting money orders - granted, probably only 5% of my customers ever paid that way, but still....

There are some sellers out there that scam, but IMO it is much more prevalent with buyers - I have been scammed by one seller all the time I've been on Ebay (and I do make a decent amount of purchases), but I have had many deadbeat buyers that do not pay. I can't even leave them bad feedback anymore, just file an unpaid item dispute, block that buyer and hope he/she gets kicked off Ebay. :