Dark Horse vs Dark Lasers

nice one.. the site of darklasers is now updated and chaged its backround.. well everyone how's that?? lets move on ok??? Have a pleasant day people!

Maybe I missed something but I just can't understand how you all jumped on him before even letting him talk and after hearing that he had no clue about the other side after reading the whole thread for second time.

Hallucynogenyc said:

Maybe I missed something but I just can't understand how you all jumped on him before even letting him talk and after hearing that he had no clue about the other side after reading the whole thread for second time.

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everyone has agreed to leave well enough alone and not post back in this thread so whats to understand?

I never agreed not to post here so:

Jaseth said:

Sorry Dave, but even though I feel Tyler may be acting a little too emotional and defensive in his replies, I still think you are in the wrong here. You may have included a little side note about him just having to fix it if it was an honest mistake, but the main part of your post was a full on, unfair attack, which you now refuse to apologize for.
I have a lot of respect for you and your contributions to this forum, but I cannot just stand by and watch when you treat a member like this.
You might have had other encounters with Tyler which cause you to have this attitude towards him, but in this particular issue he was not responsible for problem but still had to get a load of crap from you.


Seb

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Are you freaking serious??

Who the f*ck are you to call Dave out in this? Let me point out the fact that since I have been here I have never seen Dave act this way towards another member. Because of the kind of member he is, I know that if he has an issue with someone here it is with VERY good reason, and yet you talk to him like he's a drama queen. If Dave takes issue with someone, as far as I'm concerned that's enough for a ban in it's own right. I need no further explanation and no apology is even remotely necessary. Dave has contributed more here than you ever will my friend. Don't forget that.

Meatball said:

Dark Horse,

you are right. There were a couple here that got way too involved. They did it for reasons unknown. I'm glad things have been settled between you and Dark. Everyone else, should definitely leave Tyler alone about it now. If there is something you'd like to take up with him, do it via PM. NOT here.

They did it for reasons unknown to you.

I don't care to read about how some guy got a bad laser part from Tyler. Thats between him and Tyler.

I don't care to read one person antagonize, and push around another member because of their past record, or past PMs, or past deals. It not cool to bully around like so. Do it via PM. Keep the drama OFF the threads please. Such bullying is childish. Such bullying is cowardly to do on the internet at that.

As Dave said: It is necessary to antagonize publicly when privately doesn't work.

There is only ONE moderator here. Let him decide who is an issue and who is not.

We are ALL moderators here. There is only one ADMIN. There's a big difference. That's why Admin describes this as a self-moderated forum.

This is why its getting harder and harder for me to read LPF anymore....

No where near enough moderation in behavior around here. Very little professionalism.

Please all, no more drama in the threads. This is quite old.

Thank you. I've just wanted to say that for awhile now.

-Tyler

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If you can't handle drama, then a public web forum ain't the place for you.

I have seen Tyler (DaoO) do things in the past that have affected my trust. He has also done things that have affected other people's trust. He has proven himself to be untrustworthy, and until he proves otherwise that's the way it stands as far as I'm concerned. I have Dave's back all the way in this.

When someone has repeatedly established themselves as being untrustworthy, why should c0ld be the only person who's word on the matter counts? We should all be able AND ENCOURAGED to voice our frustrations with untrustworthy people without needing the admin's permission.

Your utopian idea that a public web forum should always be sunshine and rainbows isn’t ever going happen, so I would suggest that you lower your expectations so that you don't have to look forward to being disappointed all the time.

I'm really not sure why people are always bitching about the drama level here. Have these people never been on a public forum before? You just can't let it get to you.. There's heaps of great laser-related info here, but the minute anyone gets mad that's all everyone talks about.

If anyone has a problem with what I just wrote here, feel free to flame me to your heart's content. It ain't gonna change anything.

ElektroFreak said:

I never agreed not to post here so:



Are you freaking serious??

Who the f*ck are you to call Dave out in this? Let me point out the fact that since I have been here I have never seen Dave act this way towards another member. Because of the kind of member he is, I know that if he has an issue with someone here it is with VERY good reason, and yet you talk to him like he's a drama queen. If Dave takes issue with someone, as far as I'm concerned that's enough for a ban in it's own right. I need no further explanation and no apology is even remotely necessary. Dave has contributed more here than you ever will my friend. Don't forget that.






If you can't handle drama, then a public web forum ain't the place for you.

I have seen Tyler (DaoO) do things in the past that have affected my trust. He has also done things that have affected other people's trust. He has proven himself to be untrustworthy, and until he proves otherwise that's the way it stands as far as I'm concerned. I have Dave's back all the way in this.

When someone has repeatedly established themselves as being untrustworthy, why should c0ld be the only person who's word on the matter counts? We should all be able AND ENCOURAGED to voice our frustrations with untrustworthy people without needing the admin's permission.

Your utopian idea that a public web forum should always be sunshine and rainbows isn’t ever going happen, so I would suggest that you lower your expectations so that you don't have to look forward to being disappointed all the time.

I'm really not sure why people are always bitching about the drama level here. Have these people never been on a public forum before? You just can't let it get to you.. There's heaps of great laser-related info here, but the minute anyone gets mad that's all everyone talks about.

If anyone has a problem with what I just wrote here, feel free to flame me to your heart's content. It ain't gonna change anything.

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lol @ pat...

i never said i disagreed..

elektrofreak said:

are you freaking serious??

Who the f*ck are you to call dave out in this? Let me point out the fact that since i have been here i have never seen dave act this way towards another member. Because of the kind of member he is, i know that if he has an issue with someone here it is with very good reason, and yet you talk to him like he's a drama queen. If dave takes issue with someone, as far as i'm concerned that's enough for a ban in it's own right. I need no further explanation and no apology is even remotely necessary. Dave has contributed more here than you ever will my friend. Don't forget that.

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I disagree with you here, yes Dave may have his issues with Dark but I still don't think he's being fair.

"If you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all"

They should just stay out of each others way, yes Dave is an experienced member, yes he has contributed a lot to the forum but I've personally dealt with Tyler and had a great experience, that's enough for me to make up my own opinion.

If you are going to base your judgements on Tyler by what Dave has said alone, then maybe you should try thinking for your self for once and actually get to know someone before you pass judgement. When you find a valid reason to dislike him then fair enough and you have made you own mind up through personal experiences and you actually have a good reason to not like someone.

Until then maybe you should stop taking sides?

Asherz said:

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I disagree with you here, yes Dave may have his issues with Dark but I still don't think he's being fair.

"If you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all"

They should just stay out of each others way, yes Dave is an experienced member, yes he has contributed a lot to the forum but I've personally dealt with Tyler and had a great experience, that's enough for me to make up my own opinion.

If you are going to base your judgements on Tyler by what Dave has said alone, then maybe you should try thinking for your self for once and actually get to know someone before you pass judgement. When you find a valid reason to dislike him then fair enough and you have made you own mind up through personal experiences and you actually have a good reason to not like someone.

Until then maybe you should stop taking sides?

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try reading my whole post.. I'm not basing that on what Dave says alone and I'll take whoever's side I like. Thanks for your advice, though. I'll be sure to put it where it belongs.

Who the f*ck are you to call Dave out in this?

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hey hey, we are on a public forum, no one have insulted you, he just gave his opinion, can't he?

It's ok that you trust and take Dave's word as the only truth, but can't enforce others to do the same just because he has contributed more or less to the forum (nor for any other reason).

Personally, I've never seen Dave acting like this and I ignore why is he doing it now but as I consider him a very intelligent person I keep myself away from the discussion since I hardly doubt he is wrong just like you and most of the others, BUT everyone is free to give his opinion and I really don't like the way you answered this member.

Jaseth might never contribute as much as Dave has to this forum (and I doubt noone else will) but he is still a good member and deserves some respect in my opinion.

Really? Look, albert, I know you're a decent respectable member, so I'll take the time to explain something to you here:

I answered in that fashion because it demonstrates my point. This is a public forum. While that's not a license to behave badly, it's still a public forum. You never know what someone might write, and it just might piss you off. So what?? It's people's actions we need to worry about. I could care less what people say here, but if they establish themselves as being untrustworthy through their own actions, THAT's what we need to worry about.

Even though he is entitled to his opinion, I mean what I said to Jaseth. I'll admit I could have done with no profanity and lighter language, but am I going to go back and change it? NO!!!!!! Why, you ask?? Because I really don't care if it offends someone. There are far more important things to do than worry about what someone thinks about my choice of words.

There are people here who talk a big game and verbally insist on their general trustworthiness and good-heartedness even when their past actions would lead some to question this.. There are also others who have proven constantly through their actions that they are valuable members with integrity to spare. Dave and Greg both fit squarely in this category. In any situation and regardless of what you, Jaseth, Dark or ANYONE says, those are the people toward whom my allegiance points, and that is the way it always will be. In short, actions speak louder than words.

If I never see Darkarmyofone on here again it doesn't remotely matter as long as the real quality members are still here. Everyone would do well to closely examine who they do business with.

Anyway, I've said what I came here to say. What anyone else thinks about me or my posts is of no consequence to me. I have proven myself here many times. I know who my friends are and I know how to choose wisely.

ElektroFreak said:

Are you freaking serious??

Who the f*ck are you to call Dave out in this? Let me point out the fact that since I have been here I have never seen Dave act this way towards another member. Because of the kind of member he is, I know that if he has an issue with someone here it is with VERY good reason, and yet you talk to him like he's a drama queen. If Dave takes issue with someone, as far as I'm concerned that's enough for a ban in it's own right. I need no further explanation and no apology is even remotely necessary. Dave has contributed more here than you ever will my friend. Don't forget that.

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I really hadn't expected this from someone like you. Yes I am serious, though I don't intend to begin cursing for that reason.

Try reading the posts again.. I very clearly stated that Dave was entitled to his opinion and I understood why he was keeping an eye on Tyler.
What I disagree with was jumping at Tyler in this specific case where Dave did not have a clue what was going on - none of us did until Charlie cleared it up. I have a mighty lot of respect for Dave and his contributions to this forum, but that doesn't mean I won't disagree with him sometimes.
Any man has his faults, any man has his heated moments. Sure, there are few to find with a guy like Dave, but in this case I believe the facts speak for themselves, and that he was mistaken. Dave said that it was unbelievable, that Tyler had no shame, that if the companies involved had been bigger Tyler would have no chance in court, and gave the only alternative to be that Tyler had almost no experience with lasers.
It was then clearly stated that Tyler did not know about the background and layout copying, but that he was going to change it and was sorry. Following this, Dave has at no point expressed regret for jumping at him without knowing the facts first.

Now, Dave has cleared up for me why he is keeping an eye on Tyler, and I fully understand it. However, I still think that it was wrongly judged of him to write that first post in this specific case.

I hope that was clear enough and that you bothered reading it properly.. You tend to be someone who keeps a cool head and argues fairly, so I do not understand your lashing out here. I am simply expressing my opinion in this case.

Sebastian

^explanation above^

Well your explanation basically says that you think you are fully entitled to curse at me, suggest that I thought I would contribute as much as Dave which I have never even been close to thinking, least of all claiming, and that Dave can basically do whatever he wants as far as you are concerned.

I am happy that I strongly doubt Dave will ever misuse the authority he has here because he is a good guy, but even in my short lifetime I have seen many people who used to be highly respected and well liked become full of themselves and start treating everyone else like they are worthless.
I am in no way suggesting this will happen with Dave, all I am saying is that if you at some point put that endless trust in the wrong person, well.. the consequences will speak for themselves. I think it's an odd idea to just assume that a person is correct 100% all the time and never doubt or question their actions.

However.. all this being said.. sure you have a point, Dave is of far more value to the forum than well.. I am not sure I can say any other member, I don't have enough experience to state that, but almost all other members.
I was not suggesting that he left however, nor was I choosing between him and Tyler. I just thought I would let it be known that I disagreed with that one specific post.

Sebastian

ElektroFreak said:

If you can't handle drama, then a public web forum ain't the place for you.

I have seen Tyler (DaoO) do things in the past that have affected my trust. He has also done things that have affected other people's trust. He has proven himself to be untrustworthy, and until he proves otherwise that's the way it stands as far as I'm concerned. I have Dave's back all the way in this.

When someone has repeatedly established themselves as being untrustworthy, why should c0ld be the only person who's word on the matter counts? We should all be able AND ENCOURAGED to voice our frustrations with untrustworthy people without needing the admin's permission.

Your utopian idea that a public web forum should always be sunshine and rainbows isn’t ever going happen, so I would suggest that you lower your expectations so that you don't have to look forward to being disappointed all the time.

I'm really not sure why people are always bitching about the drama level here. Have these people never been on a public forum before? You just can't let it get to you.. There's heaps of great laser-related info here, but the minute anyone gets mad that's all everyone talks about.

If anyone has a problem with what I just wrote here, feel free to flame me to your heart's content. It ain't gonna change anything.

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We may all voice our opinions in how we want to, but it gets nothing done. We can sit around and talk and be public about whatever we want, but nothing will be done until Admin steps in.

I'm a member of two other forums. The rules for them are written clear. They are strict and yet fair. Its all to keep the unnecessary stuff away. To keep the forum clean and uncluttered. This might be a public forum, but that doesn't mean we can't act more professional. Cussing on forums where children can read it, blindly defending another member for the sake of being right is not being even publicly modest.

People leave this forum, and read these threads and wonder what kind of idiots we really are when they see that the largest laser forum can't act decent for the public.

When has the drama itself been productive? When has it helped us do more with lasers? It has only built enemies. How sickening. I'm glad to have no enemies among anyone here, but as a fellow laser enthusiast I plead to you: Public forums are just as public as anywhere else, so please act as you would if you were in any other public place.

I'm a member of this forum, so that means that anything that someone else says gets relayed back to me, as well as everyone else. These huge flame wars really make us look bad as a forum, and I'm concerned for our reputation as the most helpful place for laserists to go.

Just my thoughts.

^You make good points, but the more people come here, the worse this will get. Until C0ld changes things, this is how it is. As far as enemies are concerned, what difference does it really make if someone on a forum doesn't like you? NONE! All the information that people have worked hard to provide is still here waiting to be found by those who enjoy lasers. I will never believe that it is wise to judge an entire group by it's most inflammatory members.

Jaseth said:

Well your explanation basically says that you think you are fully entitled to curse at me, suggest that I thought I would contribute as much as Dave which I have never even been close to thinking, least of all claiming, and that Dave can basically do whatever he wants as far as you are concerned.

I am happy that I strongly doubt Dave will ever misuse the authority he has here because he is a good guy, but even in my short lifetime I have seen many people who used to be highly respected and well liked become full of themselves and start treating everyone else like they are worthless.
I am in no way suggesting this will happen with Dave, all I am saying is that if you at some point put that endless trust in the wrong person, well.. the consequences will speak for themselves. I think it's an odd idea to just assume that a person is correct 100% all the time and never doubt or question their actions.

However.. all this being said.. sure you have a point, Dave is of far more value to the forum than well.. I am not sure I can say any other member, I don't have enough experience to state that, but almost all other members.
I was not suggesting that he left however, nor was I choosing between him and Tyler. I just thought I would let it be known that I disagreed with that one specific post.

Sebastian

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I'd be lying if I said that I have never seen Darkarmyofone do anything that I don't trust. I also don't feel comfortable sharing those details with the forum since that wouldn't be my place as they didn't happen to me specifically. My opinions of Tyler are not baseless or formed just because of Dave, and I am entitled to share them as I see fit, just like you or anyone. I believe that's the point you're trying to make, right?

I'm just trying to inject a little perspective into this debate. At no point was I trying to suggest that we all just blindly follow Dave's example, and I apologize if that's the idea I conveyed. I don't want to be misunderstood here. All I'm saying is that trustworthiness is earned, and those who have already earned it should not be taken lightly. Especially when it is someone who pretty much NEVER has a bad thing to say about anyone. You know that when those people say something, there is meaning behind it.

I have got to disagree with you on this one Meatball.. As far as I can see this thread topic is over which means we are not hurting anyone by posting more here. I find this discussion to be interesting - we get to understand each other better by arguing for one side and explaining the thought process which lies behind, while also managing to see it from another perspective. I am not enemies with EF or Daguin, and I wish to continue sharing this great forum with them, learning about and discussing lasers as well as other things while contributing when I can.
I don't think it should be looked down upon to discuss other things than directly laser related stuff on the forum. We have an off-topic section don't we?

This might be in the Companies section and therefore off-topic.. but do we always need to stick so closely to the rules? If we followed the rules 100% there would probably only be lurkers left on the forum, as I think all members have broken at least one or two of the rules. Who has not posted one of the following?
Messages which are: False, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually-oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy.. all of those are not allowed.
Good thing Avery is such a laid back Admin huh?
I believe discussing the community is important too, and right now we are getting to know it better by conveying our thoughts on this incident as well as each others posts.

Seb

A couple of thought attributed to Edmund Burke:

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing

and

There is, however, a limit at which forbearance ceases to be a virtue.

Attributed to daguin -- People are so busy trying to be "nice" and to avoid confrontation and conflict that the bad guys walk away with the stores

Someone must stand -- No matter how unpopular

Peace,
dave