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CNI and their 604/607nm DPSS...






ultimatekaiser

ultimatekaiser

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Ok, so here's the scoop for all of you, since this thread makes me chuckle as I read it more and more. This isn't new stuff. Its just never been practical until recently. This stuff was explored ages past using powerful Argon lasers. The advent of 445nm diodes have just allowed it to be able to be done in a small sustainable format. But, no offense, let me get this out of the way - a few hundered bucks? try more like a few thousand. Making one of these makes a 561 look cheap. The cheapest one I've seen anywhere was about 3K+ for a few mW...very specialized stuff, and beam quality leaves something to be desired somewhat. Is it possible in a handheld? Kinda. The format would fit, and is possible, but not on any practical or cheap level, and operation of it would downright suck...HARD. like yellow and 561, its fairly touchy from what I understand, and needs a fair bit of cooling and specialized mirrors to get anything worthwhile and keep it. Plus on top of that, like ruby - which is also a pretty dead medium, reabsorbs its own output, so its very inefficient. Its main peak absorption is ~444 and possible lines include cyan ~480, green 534, orange (604.2, 607), and red (639.4, 696), and NIR (720) IIRC. Cost of parts would likely be insane, as they'd all be specialty stuff, was actually just having this conversation with someone the other night. Unless you have deep DEEP pockets....its not likely happening for a long time to come, and even then orange is just not all that popular, it never was. that's why 612 HeNes have bit the dust, and the people who do still make them at request, it's still cheaper than one of these, by quite a lot. (about $1600 ballpark) It's still a technology in its infancy, and will likely develop, like the yellows sadly, very slowly at best due to the limited uses and very small demand.
 
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H2Oxide

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ultimatekaiser said:
Ok, so here's the scoop for all of you, since this thread makes me chuckle as I read it more and more. This isn't new stuff. Its just never been practical until recently. This stuff was explored ages past using powerful Argon lasers. The advent of 445nm diodes have just allowed it to be able to be done in a small sustainable format. But, no offense, let me get this out of the way - a few hundered bucks? try more like a few thousand. Making one of these makes a 561 look cheap. The cheapest one I've seen anywhere was about 3K+ for a few mW...very specialized stuff, and beam quality leaves something to be desired somewhat. Is it possible in a handheld? Kinda. The format would fit, and is possible, but not on any practical or cheap level, and operation of it would downright suck...HARD. like yellow and 561, its fairly touchy from what I understand, and needs a fair bit of cooling and specialized mirrors to get anything worthwhile and keep it. Plus on top of that, like ruby - which is also a pretty dead medium, reabsorbs its own output, so its very inefficient. Its main peak absorption is ~444 and possible lines include cyan ~480, green 534, orange (604.2, 607), and red (639.4, 696), and NIR (720) IIRC. Cost of parts would likely be insane, as they'd all be specialty stuff, was actually just having this conversation with someone the other night. Unless you have deep DEEP pockets....its not likely happening for a long time to come, and even then orange is just not all that popular, it never was. that's why 612 HeNes have bit the dust, and the people who do still make them at request, it's still cheaper than one of these, by quite a lot. (about $1600 ballpark) It's still a technology in its infancy, and will likely develop, like the yellows sadly, very slowly at best due to the limited uses and very small demand.
Click to expand...

Not saying it's a new technology, in fact IIRC I have a textbook from the early 90's that has a section on it. With a maximum efficiency of something like 40% (in a controlled temp stabilized environment), we're obviously not going for efficiency here. And unless someone develops a solid state narrow band CW dye laser, this seems like the only possible way to get any kind of orange out of a handheld at all. With the development and availability of more 445nm light than ever, I'm talking about just whacking the crystals as hard as you can and praying for a few mW of orange at best. I've also seen handhelds that use separate crystals and actual HR and OC mirrors instead of coatings (at least I think they were handhelds, they were small enough to be). So while probably out of the realm of plausibility, it's not completely out of the realm of possibility. And like most of the other threads on Pr:YLF and Pr:pAYAC, it's most likely never going to even be picked up, let alone come to fruition.
 
ultimatekaiser

ultimatekaiser

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H2Oxide said:
Not saying it's a new technology, in fact IIRC I have a textbook from the early 90's that has a section on it. With a maximum efficiency of something like 40% (in a controlled temp stabilized environment), we're obviously not going for efficiency here. And unless someone develops a solid state narrow band CW dye laser, this seems like the only possible way to get any kind of orange out of a handheld at all. With the development and availability of more 445nm light than ever, I'm talking about just whacking the crystals as hard as you can and praying for a few mW of orange at best. I've also seen handhelds that use separate crystals and actual HR and OC mirrors instead of coatings (at least I think they were handhelds, they were small enough to be). So while probably out of the realm of plausibility, it's not completely out of the realm of possibility. And like most of the other threads on Pr:YLF and Pr:pAYAC, it's most likely never going to even be picked up, let alone come to fruition.
Click to expand...

That's pretty much what I was saying. but even if you could do it, cost is still a huge factor, and few people here could even afford the parts, let alone attempt it. I'm not trying to be the dream-crusher, but its just still not a feasible hobby laser line yet....it isn't as simple as just running 445nm light through the crystal and praying.

I studied this quite extensively at the time these came out, and have had the privilege of being a part of a couple projects exploring the subject. its not like making green where you can shine 808 in one end and get lucky. this is a whole different ballpark from that...though I will grant that it isn't as picky as some other processes...but even so using heatsinked rail systems with a well prepped beam you get tiny amounts, let alone a tiny module, especially as the red lines are stronger than the orange one. Even professionals I've talked to agree with me on this. Its good in concept...but it's just not worth it.....yet.

edit: here's an emission spectrum from ALKAAD
ExSpec2.gif
 
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Chicxulub

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I really appreciate your feedback, UK. That's just the type of expert opinion I was hoping to get. Its been years since I was last active in this community, and the 604/607nm lines were new to me. I had never seen them before. What you're saying about using the 445 as a pumper makes sense though and explains why it became feasible in a lab context, but not in a pointer context. Thanks for the feedback. :)
 
ultimatekaiser

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Yes. It's still a bit costly, even on the science side. It still has a lot of growing up to do. Orange was never all that popular except in very high powers from dye lasers, or as sights, and a little use in biomed to my knowledge. It's nice to know the option is there, but like 488 or 501, it's too oddball of a process, and at least those blues have some major uses. I want one too, but I don't think I can justify $3200+ for only a small amount of power.
 
Chicxulub

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ultimatekaiser said:
Yes. It's still a bit costly, even on the science side. It still has a lot of growing up to do. Orange was never all that popular except in very high powers from dye lasers, or as sights, and a little use in biomed to my knowledge. It's nice to know the option is there, but like 488 or 501, it's too oddball of a process, and at least those blues have some major uses. I want one too, but I don't think I can justify $3200+ for only a small amount of power.
Click to expand...

I definitely couldn't either. Honestly, I had hoped that it was akin to the 561 process and no one had thought to ask. I should have known better! :)
 
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joeyss

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Chicxulub said:
I definitely couldn't either. Honestly, I had hoped that it was akin to the 561 process and no one had thought to ask. I should have known better! :)
Click to expand...

what magic drives my 561 3mw cni pen it won't it peak to the front of it gets warm. If it's in a room that is 80 f it comes on much quicker.
68 f takes awhile. What diode and crystal process is in it?
 
NightExplorer96

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joeyss said:
what magic drives my 561 3mw cni pen it won't it peak to the front of it gets warm. If it's in a room that is 80 f it comes on much quicker.
68 f takes awhile. What diode and crystal process is in it?
Click to expand...

Process is as follow's for your pen:

808nm---->1123nm-----561nm :)

-Alex
 
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joeyss

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Hap said:
Process is as follow's for your pen:

808nm---->1123nm-----561nm :)

-Alex
Click to expand...

thanks

are they normally prone to mode hoping like that if it's not warmed?

it makes my lab 473 that takes a minute to peak like there's no mode hoping and its from 2003.

any idea how much current they use and % efficiency? ( the 561)
 
NightExplorer96

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joeyss said:
thanks

are they normally prone to mode hoping like that if it's not warmed?

it makes my lab 473 that takes a minute to peak like there's no mode hoping and its from 2003.

any idea how much current they use and % efficiency? ( the 561)
Click to expand...

Every DPSS laser and process is different, some are more prone to mode-hopping whilst other are more stable. Im not a specialist in DPSS lasers so you'll need someone who is an expert in that field to confirm that for ya.

I do believe 561nm is pretty efficient actually. It's more efficient then your 473nm process, but a little less then the common 532nm process. If I remember correctly, it's around a 15-20% efficiency :yh:



-Alex
 
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ultimatekaiser

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you can measure the current at the tailcap, probably about 450mA. and hap is right, its a doubled 1123 line, which is very touchy. 561 is normally only made in a lab format because it needs cooling to function properly.
 
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joeyss

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ultimatekaiser said:
you can measure the current at the tailcap, probably about 450mA. and hap is right, its a doubled 1123 line, which is very touchy. 561 is normally only made in a lab format because it needs cooling to function properly.
Click to expand...
you mean by cooling so it dosen't get too hot?

it's dim till gets warm then it comes on powerful.
 
ultimatekaiser

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each of the parts has a temperature it prefers. as it runs without cooling, it will grow in power until it reaches its peak, then slowly diminish as it overheats. generally in small a lab laser, each part is managed by a small peltier cooler to transfer the heat away at a controlled rate to keep each at a favorable temperature, which varies somewhat laser to laser.
 
bloompyle

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The one positive note that I'd like to mention with these - visible parts.

With IR based DPSS, it's all invisible pump source and IR identifier cards. With 444nm pumped Pr:YLF - it's visible light stimulating other visible light. Makes the alignment process a little easier when you're not futzing around with an identifier card.

And if you were really interested in building one, Kaiser and I have some resources under our belt for coatings and crystals. I'd always enjoy seeing someone build one of these.
 
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