4 W 450 nm laser diodes + 750 mW single-mode variants!

Blord · Jan 30, 2011

There is no such thing as too much power

“640K ought to be enough for anybody.” -Bill Gates (1981)

elite ares · Jan 30, 2011

Blord said:
There is no such thing as too much power

“640K ought to be enough for anybody.” -Bill Gates (1981)

Just what I was thinking!

RA_pierce · Jan 30, 2011

joeyss said:
In theory if these things ever come out shouldn't we be able to over drive them to maybe 6W like the 2W 445 dioides? Since they're both made to be used in projectors they must both have some tolerance for higher current.

Uh, maybe, but don't count on it.
Every time something like this is reported, some noob comes out and says, "Hey, can this diode be overdriven to 10W if we can get 250mW out of the red diodes?"
Yes all diodes have some tolerance but do you think it is worth risking a $XXXX diode just to see what the real max. is?

The professionals that create these things know what they are doing, so it would be wise to trust their ratings.

millirad said:
I would be excited about a 750mW single mode at 450nm. Slightly more blue shift, in a narrow beam.

You mean "red shift?" Since 450nm is more toward red than 445nm is...

MSwizzle said:
Lets just pretend some company wanted to put these in projectors today.

How long are we talking until these make it to mass-market (The single mode 750mw one)?

Would it take longer than 5 years?

These diodes will not be mass produced like the 445s we are enjoying unless they have a consumer application that calls for it.
Think of orange diodes. They exist, sure enough, and likely have been around for years. We never see them because they don't have their own niche.

Tonga said:
These 4W diodes sound scary powerful, but I could find some use for em. One of my projects calls for 4 to 5 A140 diodes, a couple of these would be easier to work with and down size it too!
Don't you think they would try to get them to market asap and sooner or later the price would be well worth harvesting?

The beam characteristics might make this 4W diode a poor choice if you want a nice beam.

And to all the "OMG 4W blue handheld lazor!!" readers/posters, the power consumption and heat generated will make a diode like this all but impractical for any hand-held application.

:tired:

Cyparagon · Jan 30, 2011

Blord said:
There is no such thing as too much power

“640K ought to be enough for anybody.” -Bill Gates (1981)

Gates never said that

joeyss said:
...this will be the thing that gets lasers banned when some moron sets his house on fire with a paper.

Yeah. It's a good thing matches and lighters are so hard to come by.

weidmark · Jan 31, 2011

Cyparagon said:
Yeah. It's a good thing matches and lighters are so hard to come by.

Hehe just what I was thinking.:crackup:

RA_pierce · Jan 31, 2011

Droid said:
1: They rate them for continuous use in projector type applications. So yes short cycles of high overspec power could possibly be totally fine.

What do you mean by "overspec power?"
In order to get the lifetime required to integrate laser diodes in a reliable product, they must be driven below the absolute maximum. The diodes in the Casio DLP projectors are modulated so they have high peak power but the average power is not as high as the powers we are using them at... especially since we drive these CW. The modulation puts them on a duty cycle, and (IIRC) about 30% of the time the array is being used they are off.
If you look at diode spec. sheets, there is a max. pulse rating and a max. CW rating. I am pretty sure that the diodes in all consumer electronics are driven at or below the specified max. (which will attain XXXX hours of usage before failure - aka MTTF).

Droid said:
2: Orange lasers are expensive and rare because it doesn't have applications really outside of a laser pointer. Blue Diodes do.

Not true. Orange (arguably yellow) lasers are being used in scientific applications... astronomy is a big one. These lasers are not Diode, though. No orange direct diode pointers exist that I am aware of, and the "pointer" market is very small in comparison to lasers sold for scientific use.
Nobody would go through the trouble spending all kinds of time and money to R&D a complex laser cavity just so we can have a different color dot for our presentation.

They are expensive and rare because they don't fill a niche in consumer products (due to inefficiency, cost, etc.), so they are normally only produced for real science at $$$$$.

Droid said:
3: Won't be mass produced? How do you know? They said right there in the article they have mass product uses that it's intended for. And even if it turns out that those products cost thousands of dollars if the diodes are harvested and they even cost $100 - $200 a piece I still call that affordable enough.

I never said I know for sure but these diodes will be in competition with the Nichia 445s.
Unless the DLP phosphor is much more responsive to +5nm or there is a significant difference in cost there would be no reason to change the design that I could forsee.

Now, talking about the 4W diode... That monster will not likely come in 24 pcs. per projector like our 445s. So if there are maybe 4 per projector (if we are lucky) and the cost is $1200 that's $300 per diode bar.

Droid said:
4: Again how do you know what the beam characteristics will be? It's not even out yet. It's going to have to be quality enough to work in projectors and other such applications.

I don't know what the beam will be like.
But if you have ever seen a high power diode or diode array, you will understand why it is not easy to tame.
Now, the article says the 4W diode uses a "monolithic" emitter, but it is likely to be huge to allow so much power. Huge chip = huge beam. It will be like a big version of the 445nm diode beams.

Droid said:
5: We have green lasers that need super high infrared watts before it comes out green. Sure these 3-4 watt blues will need a big host and heatsink but I don't think it's impossible to dissipate that much heat in a large or oversized hand held host. Shoot we already have people making 2 watt 445 lasers on here.

BillG519, Hemlock Mike, Some others I can't remember

have built multi-Watt portable IR lasers. Hemlock Mike's is a portable RF excited CO2. BillG built a >4W 808nm. Why is this possible?
A 2W 808nm diode consumes about 1/3 the wattage of the 445s to attain the same power output and they can do it reliably.
Cooling a 4W IR diode in a portable host is possible (for short durations) but cooling something that produces at least 3 times the heat is going to be a real challenge.

The power source is another story. You'll need some serious wattage to power that thing up at CW.

Droid said:
Don't be such a negative Nancy :na:

Not being negative. I'd love to have one of those diodes (the 4W and the single mode minis!). But I'm just trying to be realistic here.
The 445nm diodes we have are a godsend, but don't expect all your fortune to be that good.

The message I want to make is simply: It all depends on what they are used for/in and until we know it is simply speculation. It is easy to get carried away in excitement of things like this and expect too much. We shouldn't get spoiled so soon.
One year ago, the only way to get >50mW of blue in a portable laser was to spend ~$800.

rev0 · Feb 2, 2011

I really hope some company finds a use for these and we find a source for them. I'm still waiting for direct green diodes, but I'd love a 750mW single-mode blue; the "dot" on my 445 is pretty useless at >5 feet away.

pullbangdead · Feb 3, 2011

ixfd64 said:
A while ago, Pullbangdead mentioned (on PL) that a startup company called Soraa has managed to create high-powered single-mode laser diodes.

Well, Soraa has recently developed a 4 W blue laser diode, as well as a 750 mW single-mode version.

I hope it won't be too long until these hit the market!

Word.

joeyss said:
What about GreenBeam and his grand purchase?

LOL

joeyss said:
In theory if these things ever come out shouldn't we be able to over drive them to maybe 6W like the 2W 445 dioides? Since they're both made to be used in projectors they must both have some tolerance for higher current.

This is answered pretty well above already, but it's a big "it depends". It depends on a lot of things. So maybe, maybe not, but if you feel strongly about it you can volunteer to be the first to test your brand new diode in the future to see what it can handle. :gj:

MSwizzle said:
Lets just pretend some company wanted to put these in projectors today.

How long are we talking until these make it to mass-market (The single mode 750mw one)?

Would it take longer than 5 years?

-Matt

BIG technology problem still in the way here.

Doing a batch process to make these lasers, there is really no reason for the manufacturing process to be more expensive (per batch) than it is to make a batch of the current blue lasers. That's the nature of batch processing.

The problem: A batch is currently a LOT smaller. Current diodes are made on substrates which are 2" circular wafers. These diodes are likely being made on substrates that are MUCH smaller.

Oh, and the smaller substrates are likely more expensive too. So you start with a more expensive substrate, and you get a lot fewer lasers per batch (even though each batch still costs roughly the same to make). So for these to be manufacturable, we need new substrate technology. How far away is that? Good question, and if anyone knew that, they could be a rich person.

Tonga said:
Don't you think they would try to get them to market asap and sooner or later the price would be well worth harvesting?

See above.

Bionic-Badger said:
We'll see if they can get past Nichia's patents though.

LOL, I'm sure they've considered it. In addition to the regular diligence I'm sure they've done with regards to all aspects of intellectual property, Soraa was co-founded by Shuji Nakamura. As such, I'm sure they've taken Nichia plenty into account, considering Shuji authored/invented a large portion of Nichia's patent portfolio and spent years battling them in court after he left the company.

Netscott · Feb 9, 2011

Droid said:
Awesomeness. I'll take one please. They need to make this smilie in blue now :lasergun:

I agree. Here, I adjusted the green one.

-Scott

jakeGT · Feb 10, 2011

Netscott said:
I agree. Here, I adjusted the green one.

-Scott

hell yes! thats what ive been waiting for way too long

Jmillerdoc · Apr 25, 2014

mfo said:
Lol.

Yeah, I must admit 4W is a little overkill. I know this will probably never happen, but is anyone else paranoid that one day you'll just be walking and all the sudden you'll get blasted in the face with one of these laser beams?

Also, lol @ this :knight:

Wonder what we will be saying about the next three years. 40 watt blue handhelds, no way! (I hope someone pokes fun at this in three years when these are widely available)

IsaacT · Apr 25, 2014

Jmillerdoc said:
Wonder what we will be saying about the next three years. 40 watt blue handhelds, no way! (I hope someone pokes fun at this in three years when these are widely available)

40W handhelds would be extremely dangerous. You could probably cut metal at that point. I know CO2 lasers have a better wavelength for it but still.

Pi R Squared · Apr 25, 2014

Looks like its been over 3 years now. The day we see a 40w hand held we will be getting close to seeing the blasters and phasers of sci-fi that will one day replace projectile weapons.

Teej · Apr 25, 2014

Pi R Squared said:
Looks like its been over 3 years now. The day we see a 40w hand held we will be getting close to seeing the blasters and phasers of sci-fi that will one day replace projectile weapons.

Until they learn to aim though, at least in movies, those ray weapons are terrible...they can't hit anyone who's supposed to make it to the end of the movie.

In real life, so far, the lasers work best as a way to aim the lead projectiles.

That means, that in the future, maybe they need laser pointers to show the point of aim, so that when they fire the ray gun, maybe they'd hit something?

Seoul_lasers · Apr 25, 2014

wannaburnstuff said:
40W handhelds would be extremely dangerous. You could probably cut metal at that point. I know CO2 lasers have a better wavelength for it but still.

Actually there is a demo which I am going link to show casing 40W of A140 by Hubert, Hubert I believe is from France. Crazy French....

cutting (carving/melting) a rock and ceramic work. It's actually quite impressive to see this. The power supply is hefty but it's nothing that couldn't be made
"portable" using some high current liFePo cells and a suitable driver. 25-32V @ 8A Cooling is the key here!!

:thinking: :beer:

Feel enlightened after watching this... perhaps!

Pi R Squared · Apr 25, 2014

Teej said:
Until they learn to aim though, at least in movies, those ray weapons are terrible...they can't hit anyone who's supposed to make it to the end of the movie.

In real life, so far, the lasers work best as a way to aim the lead projectiles.

That means, that in the future, maybe they need laser pointers to show the point of aim, so that when they fire the ray gun, maybe they'd hit something?

Especially if they are IR or UV, also they need to start wearing safety glasses. Notice they can blast a hole in a wall or vaporize a person or thing a few feet away and no one is ever wearing safety glasses. :crackup: I really like sci-fi movies but my experience with lasers has changed the way I think of some of them.

4 W 450 nm laser diodes + 750 mW single-mode variants!

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