Seeking Advice from experinced Fourm sellers and buyers

And I wanted to put this out there too. I have had no problems at all with Ryan, but it's business and I go with the best deal/workmanship has to offer!

obsidianjaguar said:

so I was all good to deal with him until this thread , and seeing as some people have told me his original shop in these forums got shut down due to bad workmanship, it seems like i may have dodged a bullet

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His shop was not shut down due to bad workmanship. He is a relatively new builder and as far as I know the only "review" of his work was posted by himself. Most of Ryan's issues here seem to revolve around personality conflicts with other members.

With that said though check around and do a little research there are many more seasoned builders that will do a similar build (or better) for less money.

On the tracked shipping yes paypal does require it for sellers protection. If the buyer claims he never received it then the seller is out the money. Period there is not debating it. The seller will loose every time.:beer:

oOLaharlOo said:

And I wanted to put this out there too. I have had no problems at all with Ryan, but it's business and I go with the best deal/workmanship has to offer!

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my thoughts exactly , despite the personalty conflicts he has had with others , I must say he has been VERY friendly and quick to share his knowledge with me ... So I cant say that he has wronged me in any way ... But I am on a major budget , and yes shipping to my end of the planet is crazy expensive So every bit of $$ i can save will make a huge difference .... in this particular instance it was nothing to do with the customer service side , it was more an issue of educating myself on the fact that there are less expensive options out there ... and Also I did not know this seller had only starting building.. No reason to say that that fact means his builds are not up to quality .. I just personally feel better buying from someone who has been producing a while

DTR said:

On the tracked shipping yes paypal does require it for sellers protection. If the buyer claims he never received it then the seller is out the money. Period there is not debating it. The seller will loose every time.:beer:

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What I see is "signature delivery" confirmation for seller protection.
It may be that international has no option for signature delivery except via tracking, but that would be a postal service thing, NOT a PayPal thing.

However, he was promoting using AlertPay with NO tracking instead.
I cannot see how no tracking will lead to protection for the seller.
Wouldn't it then be the same with PayPal that no tacking equals no protection?

Peace,
dave

daguin said:

What I see is "signature delivery" confirmation for seller protection.
It may be that international has no option for signature delivery except via tracking, but that would be a postal service thing, NOT a PayPal thing.

However, he was promoting using AlertPay with NO tracking instead.
I cannot see how no tracking will lead to protection for the seller.
Wouldn't it then be the same with PayPal that no tacking equals no protection?

Peace,
dave

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My guess would be that service provides no buyer protection at all. I would have to look at their terms of service but I would assume it is like sending a bank wire and that is why he would be willing to go without tracking.

DTR said:

My guess would be that service provides no buyer protection at all. I would have to look at their terms of service but I would assume it is like sending a bank wire and that is why he would be willing to go without tracking.

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That could be the motivation

That way he is protected, but the buyer is out of luck

Peace,
dave

Alright guys, I typed out a response, but I felt it would be more appropriate I do a video response. I'm not too great with typing and it's hard to gauge one's sincerity or emotion via just words.

Here's my response, with honesty, respect, and love:

Honestly guys, I'm not too great with talking either, in fact I've never done this before... so please bare with me while I try to explain everything.

So I feel partially at fault. You seem like a nice fellow. I will try not to be as rude in the future (I know I have been), but my points still stand.

1) Prices are still absurdly high. At $325 for a 2.5W though, that's starting to get more realistic. Probably a good price there. You compared your prices with Lazeerer. There are only a few problems with that, though. First, Lazeerer is an EXCEPTIONAL builder, probably one of the best on the forums. He always does clean work, has a great reputation, and his builds are always unique. That brings me to a second point: Lazeerer's hosts ALONE cost over $100 sometimes. That does not include a custom made heatsink, polishing that he does himself, etc. He probably spends $250+ on his higher end builds that he sells for $350-$400. A third point: the issue with market price vs. part price. I understand that you want to be able to sell them for what they're worth, not what you paid for it. But look at it from a hobbyist perspective and not a business perspective. You're selling to other hobbyists, who are probably just as much struggling with money as you are. And then you are selling them these lasers which are marked up 200%, when you could still make a good profit for the amount of time put in while still giving fellow hobbyists a leg up. Think about the community.

2) You can be pretty arrogant. There is a lot for you to learn about lasers and the building of lasers. Hell, I've been here over a year and I still have a lot to learn and there is no way that I would call myself an expert or a pro. And yet you went and called your shop a "Pro" shop, selling "top of the line" lasers. Those terms are reserved for Lazeerer, rhd, DTR, Dave, etc. Those are the kings of this laser thing we have going, they are the best quality. Then there is the whole "$1500 on legal fees" thing... I won't touch that one with a ten-foot pole.

3) The advertising schemes. I can't seem to think of any specifics or pin-point anything, but it's just the diction you use, the banners, the colors, all of that, that makes you seem like Wicked Lasers and the like - that you are trying to draw in the uninformed masses. And that makes me sick. If I could change one thing about your business practices, it would be this.

I guess that's it. Hell, send out one to a member, expecting it to be returned (so they aren't being bribed by a free laser) and ask for them to review it. Hell, even I would do that for you, and if it's a good value and it is good quality, I would honestly review it and say that.

Point is, you came on really strong with absurdly high prices and an arrogance to fit.

I say all of this with the utmost respect - I feel like I would like you as a person. I just don't as a business.

Wolfman29 said:

So I feel partially at fault. You seem like a nice fellow. I will try not to be as rude in the future (I know I have been), but my points still stand.

1) Prices are still absurdly high. At $325 for a 2.5W though, that's starting to get more realistic. Probably a good price there. You compared your prices with Lazeerer. There are only a few problems with that, though. First, Lazeerer is an EXCEPTIONAL builder, probably one of the best on the forums. He always does clean work, has a great reputation, and his builds are always unique. That brings me to a second point: Lazeerer's hosts ALONE cost over $100 sometimes. That does not include a custom made heatsink, polishing that he does himself, etc. He probably spends $250+ on his higher end builds that he sells for $350-$400. A third point: the issue with market price vs. part price. I understand that you want to be able to sell them for what they're worth, not what you paid for it. But look at it from a hobbyist perspective and not a business perspective. You're selling to other hobbyists, who are probably just as much struggling with money as you are. And then you are selling them these lasers which are marked up 200%, when you could still make a good profit for the amount of time put in while still giving fellow hobbyists a leg up. Think about the community.

2) You can be pretty arrogant. There is a lot for you to learn about lasers and the building of lasers. Hell, I've been here over a year and I still have a lot to learn and there is no way that I would call myself an expert or a pro. And yet you went and called your shop a "Pro" shop, selling "top of the line" lasers. Those terms are reserved for Lazeerer, rhd, DTR, Dave, etc. Those are the kings of this laser thing we have going, they are the best quality. Then there is the whole "$1500 on legal fees" thing... I won't touch that one with a ten-foot pole.

3) The advertising schemes. I can't seem to think of any specifics or pin-point anything, but it's just the diction you use, the banners, the colors, all of that, that makes you seem like Wicked Lasers and the like - that you are trying to draw in the uninformed masses. And that makes me sick. If I could change one thing about your business practices, it would be this.

I guess that's it. Hell, send out one to a member, expecting it to be returned (so they aren't being bribed by a free laser) and ask for them to review it. Hell, even I would do that for you, and if it's a good value and it is good quality, I would honestly review it and say that.

Point is, you came on really strong with absurdly high prices and an arrogance to fit.

I say all of this with the utmost respect - I feel like I would like you as a person. I just don't as a business.

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Alright, I feel you explained everything really well here, you've put a smile on my face this time.

Okay so.. some things I'd like to say:

1) Agreed that Lazeerer is exceptionally skillful and has all the right to charge those prices. And by no means am I saying I'm as skillful as him. Though, it's worth to add that I believe the stainless steel host he used in his 2.7W build was under $46.99 (which was how much the SL-SS costs). But I heed your advice, and you're right about thinking about the community a bit more. I have dropped my price to $325 with all accessories or $300 just the laser.

2) Yeah, honestly I'm sorry if I ever came off arrogant. Sometimes I kind of, "fight for who's right" if I really feel I'm right. And recently, I've just felt so pushed to the edge that a bit of inferior complex kicked in and I started flaunting -- it did me nothing but more harm. I apologize for this. And in regards to the "Pro shop", yeah I understand, I was naive. I honestly merely used the phrase "Pro Shop" not to say I'm professional, but rather like a custom shop. Like your local sports "Pro Shop" stringer, the stringer isn't a pro, but you can customize your racquet like a pro. It's like a custom-shop type of deal, Pro Shop, twas what I meant. But yeah it's the wrong term and I shouldn't label it so.

3) I can imagine other hobbyists feeling a bit, say.. corny about the marketing. I try to keep it really noob friendly, honestly all my marketing is geared to noobs in mind (high-powered lens instead of G-2 lens, etc.). Because my aim is to attract new comers, kind of like Wicked Lasers, but w/o the garbage, just straight true output lasers at much lower prices. I admit the advertising was a bit corny, I'll try to mature it a bit more but please bare with me as I still aim to stay noob-friendly.

Good to hear from you Wolfy.

Ryan

Hey, no problem. I think we can be on good terms from now on. Keep your prices at that lower price and I will probably have no more problems about ya. Just be less arrogant, be more mature when it comes to advertising, and I think I won't need to be on the look out for you.

Wolfman29 said:

Hey, no problem. I think we can be on good terms from now on. Keep your prices at that lower price and I will probably have no more problems about ya. Just be less arrogant, be more mature when it comes to advertising, and I think I won't need to be on the look out for you.

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On the look out? You really are a wolf eh.

I'll try not to be food

Not just a name!

Hey Ryan, I just watched your video. Just to clarify, when I commented and suggested for everyone not to use Alertpay that was a general statement about what Hell Alertpay can be. That was directed to sellers...meaning you. If/when you receive payment from someone on Alert pay they sometimes will hold that money you received for an indefinite amount of time. Their reason for this to me was that they wanted to make sure the funds that I received were legitimate. Take it however it makes sense to you. Anyway they had my money for months before I was able to get it out. Also at the time I was finally able to get it out all of the withdrawal options were unavailable aside from 1 and I had to jump through a few hoops to even do that. As a seller it is shit. It sounds like it is bad as a buyer too. So enough about alertpay.

As for your prices, I have not seen anything super high until your latest SLII build. While it is an exceptional diode and a solid laser I wouldn't post any 2W+ laser higher than $350 unless it used a host that cost $100 (such as an Ehgemus) That is just me though and I tend to price my lasers lower than everyone else so people sometimes will expect similar pricing from new sellers. The closest example I can give would be a 2050mW laser I built in the same host. http://laserpointerforums.com/f39/2-050mw-445nm-slii-sold-73427.html
This sold for $250....my listing price. Of course the power was 20% less so that is reason for a higher price. I would think roughly $50 more since that is how much extra you would need to pay for a binned diode from FP. So yeah your current build would probably sell better at $300 (looks like you came to the same conclusion). It is your choice! People need to respect the fact that it is your laser and you can try to sell it for whatever price you want. It doesn't matter if it is overpriced in their mind. What matters is what it is worth to the person who buys it and what it is worth to you as the seller.

As for you being arrogant I do not see this but I haven't read half your posts (edit- just read the other half LOL, I see what he was talking about now. Things got pretty ugly there. I wouldn't let that happen again if I were you). I think it is a good thing that you think highly of your work (but keep yourself in check) and you obviously have some skill building lasers. After watching your video, arrogant is not an adjective that comes to mind as a personality trait.
Your lay out does look flashy with your use of various colors, sizes, bolding, underlines, bullet points, italicization, ridiculous laser names, embedded videos, photo sizing and layout but that is not necessarily a bad thing. I think it looks nice. You clearly put a lot of time and effort into making your listings look that way (similar to Lazeerer's) Now to say you are doing that to draw in customers is probably 100% correct but I don't see anything wrong with that. If you can put that much effort and detail in your sales post it should act to mirror the attention and detail you put in your builds. I hope so anyway. Perhaps that is why my name isn't listed above with Lazeerer, rhd, DTR, and Dave. I put very little effort into making my sales post look pretty and focus primarily on getting the vital specifications to the reader as quickly as possible followed by detailed photos. Maybe if I fluff up my sales threads my builds will be regarded in higher esteem. Makes sense to me.
Sorry for this incredibly long post out of left field. I am bored and felt like typing. I have no diodes to build lasers with and my hands need to do something!

Hey yob, meant no disrespect Jayrob wasn't listed either. I just listed those off the top of my head =p

You actually read all that?!?! LOL, J/K....Thanks bud, none taken. I think that the perceived quality of my builds could benefit from me putting in a little more effort in my sales threads.