12x Murder Fund! + Graph!

Re: 12x Murder Fund! (Complete!)

HIMNL9 said:

Back to diodes ..... you said that this one that you're testing is the LESS efficent one ? ..... with an output of 550mW "eating" 393mA ? ..... well, this perhaps indicate some improvement in the constructive technology, at least in appearence ..... maybe this also mean that the diode can be overstressed a bit more, but it's just a personal impression .....

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Yes, this 12x is the lowest efficiency 12x i know of, altho i do only know of three.

In all cases so far we tested the "low end" diodes.

That's also why i don't want to push them to the maximum powers we see on the forum. Those powers are almost exclusivelly reached with higher efficiency diodes, while the lower efficiency ones would need much higher currents, currents that could destroy them in a very short time.


At the same time we do not yet really know what efficiency means for these diodes, when it comes to same current. For that i will have to kill some less expensive diodes after these tests are complete.


But using common sense, i'd rather test a current where high efficiency 12x's reach ~600mW and determine it is "safe" (which is what we did with the first 8x and 400mW+ for high efficiency ones), than destroy this one too soon pushing it to that same power.


In any case, i need input for the setting before i dare press the Cycle switch again, i don't want to force my decision on anyone, i was under the impression that 550mW is what we want, but it's not too late to adjust....

Re: 12x Murder Fund! (Complete!)

Tech_Junkie said:

Got to agree with you there. I know some people want the scientific approach, but most of the people who donated expect you to take the diode to unsafe levels to see how much it can be pushed. The diode is suppose to be a sacrificial lamb. Light a fire under its a$$ and see if it pops. There are 2 diodes right? I'm sure we can all chip in and buy a third if need be.

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There is only one 12x, there is a second 8x tho, but that's the other part of the experiment...

Re: 12x Murder Fund! (Complete!)

OK..scratch what I said them. I thought we had 2 to play with.

Re: 12x Murder Fund! (Complete!)

IgorT said:

There is only one 12x, there is a second 8x tho, but that's the other part of the experiment...

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390 to 400mA's is a good spot! (IMO)

If we push it too much, it may not last very long...

Re: 12x Murder Fund! (Complete!)

IgorT said:

That's also why i don't want to push them to the maximum powers we see on the forum. Those powers are almost exclusivelly reached with higher efficiency diodes, while the lower efficiency ones would need much higher currents, currents that could destroy them in a very short time.

Click to expand...

Agree perfectly

IgorT said:

At the same time we do not yet really know what efficiency means for these diodes, when it comes to same current.

Click to expand...

About this, i remember one of the first datasheets from Nichia about their high power violets ..... their factory specifications says that the efficency is usually "from 0.8 to 1.8 W/A" ..... it's a lot of variation, depending from the production lots ..... wondering if the production process for the BR high power chips is so critical, that it change the efficency randomly from a lot to another, without the manufacturer can control it too ..... this may also explain all the differences in the various diodes .....

Oh, BTW, about Nichia, have you seen this one ?

http://www.nichia.com/specification/ld/NDB7352-E.pdf

1W of 440/455nm :drool: ..... and, note, 1W of declared CW typical output from the manufacturer ..... it's still an engineering sample, but, hell, just wondering how much we can squeeze out from it, if we had one for test :eg:

Re: 12x Murder Fund! (Complete!)

Oh my god.... am I reading this right? a 1 watt blue (not violet, blue) diode?

Jesus christ monkey balls
forget 12x, how about 50x blue!

will

Re: 12x Murder Fund! (Complete!)

You should check this posts:

I vote for 420mA. We don't seem to find the critical point and in my opinion, it's better to know that 420 was unsafe than to know 400 was safe

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Hallucynogenyc;

420ma would be 162% of pulse power (about 517mw).

That is only about 8% more current
than the 8X had @ 150% of pulse power (300ma).

I thought the 8X operating for >150 hr illustrated ...
that we needed to drive slightly harder.

MERRY CHRISTMAS

LarryDFW

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I thought I was gonna be told that 420mA was crazy and I hear that it's not even enough LOL

Well larry, let's tell them this then, because they are planning to run it ar 390-400mA xD

Click to expand...

Re: 12x Murder Fund! (Complete!)

HIMNL9 said:

Agree perfectly




About this, i remember one of the first datasheets from Nichia about their high power violets ..... their factory specifications says that the efficency is usually "from 0.8 to 1.8 W/A" ..... it's a lot of variation, depending from the production lots ..... wondering if the production process for the BR high power chips is so critical, that it change the efficency randomly from a lot to another, without the manufacturer can control it too ..... this may also explain all the differences in the various diodes .....

Oh, BTW, about Nichia, have you seen this one ?

http://www.nichia.com/specification/ld/NDB7352-E.pdf

1W of 440/455nm :drool: ..... and, note, 1W of declared CW typical output from the manufacturer ..... it's still an engineering sample, but, hell, just wondering how much we can squeeze out from it, if we had one for test :eg:

Click to expand...

OMGZORZ!!!!!!! Start a thread. NOW.

Re: 12x Murder Fund! (Complete!)

I can sense a 1W Murder Fund going to start :drool:

Re: 12x Murder Fund! (Complete!)

HIMNL9 said:

Oh, BTW, about Nichia, have you seen this one ?

http://www.nichia.com/specification/ld/NDB7352-E.pdf

1W of 440/455nm ..... and, note, 1W of declared CW typical output from the manufacturer ..... it's still an engineering sample, but, hell, just wondering how much we can squeeze out from it, if we had one for test

Click to expand...

It sure will be nice when they get affordable...

You can get a 50mW 445nm now, but it cost about 5 or 6 hundred dollars...
http://www.sonic.net/~jayrob/DL-445-50-1.pdf

Re: 12x Murder Fund! (Complete!)

ossumguywill said:

Oh my god.... am I reading this right? a 1 watt blue (not violet, blue) diode?

Jesus christ monkey balls
forget 12x, how about 50x blue!

will

Click to expand...

50x blue? These aren't going to be used in drives. Also, they will cost probably like $5000 or more.

Re: 12x Murder Fund! (Complete!)

IgorT ---

Don't let my results change your plan. I turned my 12x to 600 mW+ because It's mine. I can do that. I also don't run it for more than 30 seconds at a time and for maybe 5 minutes a day. Your test is more scientific relating to long term life expectancy demanded by the members here.
My short excursion to 1 watt was a total of 4 seconds and I'm glad the diode survived.

HMike

@ Skew ..... If you want to turn your 12 X up to 1 Watt, be sure to graph the results. We would love to see it.

Re: 12x Murder Fund! (Complete!)

bryce007 said:

50x blue? These aren't going to be used in drives. Also, they will cost probably like $5000 or more.

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shhhh, don't ruin it!
J/K

yeah, I can't see these ever coming down in price, or at least not for a while. But still, it would be really nice to have a >500mW true blue handheld, as opposed to the <50mW stuff we can get now, for very exorbitant prices anyway.

will

Re: 12x Murder Fund! (Complete!)

jayrob said:

It sure will be nice when they get affordable...

You can get a 50mW 445nm now, but it cost about 5 or 6 hundred dollars...
http://www.sonic.net/~jayrob/DL-445-50-1.pdf

Click to expand...

I got a quote for a 50mW 445nm diode early last year (forgot the manufacturer's name).
It was "only" ~$600 a pop.

ossumguyWill- 440/445nm will not be as bright as 473nm mW for mW. Also, a diode designed for this power will likely be multi-mode. These 12X diodes are impressive, but remember that we overdrive diodes here. Single mode diodes are usually not capable of producing this kind of power reliably.
Even red/IR diodes, which have been around much longer, are still using stacked diodes to produce >300mW with any kind of reliability (laserglow Orion comes to mind). I have run a few LOC/LCCs up to and beyond 300mW but the lifetime was no more than a few hours.

When/If the DPSS process for blue is improved, we will see ClassIV blues with specs that match the high power greens.

I think there will be more long wavelength blue diode developments as the quest for green continues...
IIRC the materials used to produce the first green diode can be "tuned" to hit any wavelength between 405~530nm.
Anyone with more accurate info, please correct me.

Re: 12x Murder Fund! (Complete!)

RA_pierce said:

I think there will be more long wavelength blue diode developments as the quest for green continues...
IIRC the materials used to produce the first green diode can be "tuned" to hit any wavelength between 405~530nm.
Anyone with more accurate info, please correct me.

Click to expand...

That's what I heard. It just depends on the way you grow the crystals, the problem I think is that some structures are hard to grow reliably until they invent a new process. Also, I mean that the 500mW blues will not be overdriven, but if they have 50 and 1000mW diodes I'm sure there is an intermediate. And they will not be as bright as 473 blue of course, but still a lot farther in on the Gaussian bell than 405.

will

Re: 12x Murder Fund! (Complete!)

bryce007 said:

50x blue? These aren't going to be used in drives. Also, they will cost probably like $5000 or more.

Click to expand...

Actually, "only" around 4900$ for a sample, NOT granted cause it's an engineering sample, and not yet a regular product

(i asked a friend that buy regularly leds from Nichia, to ask them the price for a sample, and they replied, in yens, the price is 4912$ and some cents, at the actual change ..... it's a bit too much over my actual possibilities ..... approximatively 100 times over )

BTW, according wit the datasheet, perhaps you need at least a 6V 1A driver, for run it ..... "absolute maximum rating" of 1.2A ..... considering the variance in efficency, if you find a freak, you can get 1.8W at 1A, LOL.