Old 05-01-2013, 09:56 PM #17
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Default Re: What if I Don't Have an LPM?

an lpm is an indespensible part of the hobby if you ever intend to sell a laser. my laserbee has paid for itself.


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Old 05-02-2013, 12:40 AM #18
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Default Re: What if I Don't Have an LPM?

There should be an automatic forum block on all posts/threads that have "how strong is my laser" "how many mw's is my laser"

haha, just kidding. or am i =p
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:41 AM #19
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Default Re: What if I Don't Have an LPM?

Glad you posted this!

Isn't it true if you for each mirror you can bounce it off it is 100mw. Also if it can light a match through an ice cube it is 1w. So a 3w build can light a match through three ice cubes lol
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:46 AM #20
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Default Re: What if I Don't Have an LPM?

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Originally Posted by mhemling33 View Post
Glad you posted this!

Isn't it true if you for each mirror you can bounce it off it is 100mw. Also if it can light a match through an ice cube it is 1w. So a 3w build can light a match through three ice cubes lol
Only during months with names that contain the letter "R"
Or during an episode of Wilkin's Wobble, of course

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Old 05-07-2013, 10:55 AM #21
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Default Re: What if I Don't Have an LPM?

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Only during months with names that contain the letter "R"
Or during an episode of Wilkin's Wobble, of course

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I think I just might be detecting a little sarcasm here.....
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Old 05-07-2013, 11:45 AM #22
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Default Re: What if I Don't Have an LPM?

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I think I just might be detecting a little sarcasm here.....
Should hope so he was laying it on pretty thick.
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Old 05-07-2013, 11:50 AM #23
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Default Re: What if I Don't Have an LPM?

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Should hope so he was laying it on pretty thick.
I was being sarcastic (about having to analyse his sarcasm to be certain).

Wow. Sacastiception.
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Old 05-07-2013, 11:53 AM #24
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Default Re: What if I Don't Have an LPM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belch85 View Post
I was being sarcastic (about having to analyse his sarcasm to be certain).

Wow. Sacastiception.
Quoting Tommy Boy

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Richard Hayden: Well, I should hope so, because I'm laying it on pretty thick.
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Old 05-07-2013, 01:29 PM #25
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Default Re: What if I Don't Have an LPM?

The Art of Being Subtle

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Old 05-07-2013, 02:02 PM #26
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Default Re: What if I Don't Have an LPM?

Easy to attempt on a forum, execution though is basically a coin toss.

Peace,
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Old 05-08-2013, 07:32 AM #27
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Default Re: What if I Don't Have an LPM?

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Get the laser measured by an LPM
It is the ONLY way to be able to say what the output is

Peace,
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You guys are the experts, I'm only new here and I don't wanna ruffle any feathers... But surely there are some attributes you can ascertain by playing around with your laser. I mean; if it lights almost everything on fire without bothering with the focus, it's not going to be a 5mW is it? If you play with the focus all day long and experiment at different distances trying to light the material most susceptible to your wavelength; and you can't even melt - then its not going to be a 2W laser is it?

Therefore, its not "black and white" - there must be some grey area where estimations (particularly by someone with experience) can be made?

Or have I really brained my damage and I'm not reading what you've written properly?
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:07 PM #28
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Default Re: What if I Don't Have an LPM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belch85 View Post
You guys are the experts, I'm only new here and I don't wanna ruffle any feathers... But surely there are some attributes you can ascertain by playing around with your laser. I mean; if it lights almost everything on fire without bothering with the focus, it's not going to be a 5mW is it? If you play with the focus all day long and experiment at different distances trying to light the material most susceptible to your wavelength; and you can't even melt - then its not going to be a 2W laser is it?

Therefore, its not "black and white" - there must be some grey area where estimations (particularly by someone with experience) can be made?

Or have I really brained my damage and I'm not reading what you've written properly?
Why MUST there be grey area?
Why, in the world, would you believe that your "intuition" is more capable of discerning truth than our empirical testing and academic history?

You have not "brained your damage."
You are simply a human who's mommy and grammy lied to you
You are NOT the smartest child in the world
You aren't the prettiest or most handsome child in the world
You are just a human

Humans like to *think* that they can think things through and come up with the right answer
Unfortunately, that is not valid

You have read through this thread and admitted that we know more than you about the subject
Then you ask, "Are you sure?"

Let me answer that as succinctly as I can
Yes. We are sure

If there were another way, we most assuredly would be crowing about it
LPM's are expensive
Professional LPM's are SIGNIFICANTLY more costly than any of the REALLY CHEAP "hobbyists" LPM's offered
If you think that a Laserbee 5W costs more than you want to spend, try pricing out a Scientech S310 or H410
NO ONE here *wants* to spend money on an LPM

Unfortunately for the hobby:
Retailers, especially the Chinese "mega retailers", are as willing to lie to you as your mommy and grammy are

If you read through this thread (instead of just jumping to the end to write your response to the title of the thread like most Noob's do), you will have seen my post showing me lighting a match, instantly, with a 32mW laser.

Should we then surmise that all (or most) 35mW lasers can light a match instantly?

Even knowing what the current being produced is and which diode is in the laser, will only give us a **WIDE** range of potential outputs
If knowing that your laser is somewhere between 1.2W and 2.2W is enough for you (there is your only real potential "grey area"), then it doesn't really matter, does it?

If, however, you wish to have a reasonably close idea of what your laser is putting out, we *ALL* are left with this . . . . .

There is ONLY ONE WAY TO KNOW what the output on a particular laser is
You MUST measure it with a Laser Power Meter

Peace,
dave
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:22 PM #29
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Default Re: What if I Don't Have an LPM?

Ahmen to that!
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:29 PM #30
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Default Re: What if I Don't Have an LPM?

I have a burn board, Hehaw, as a rule when a certain build has the expectation of being a "Bad Arsh".

If it fails to produce a kernel upon impact at focal point I don't label it as such. When I see a kernel then I know it more that 3.3W
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:11 AM #31
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Default Re: What if I Don't Have an LPM?

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Why MUST there be grey area?
Why, in the world, would you believe that your "intuition" is more capable of discerning truth than our empirical testing and academic history?

You have not "brained your damage."
You are simply a human who's mommy and grammy lied to you
You are NOT the smartest child in the world
You aren't the prettiest or most handsome child in the world
You are just a human

Humans like to *think* that they can think things through and come up with the right answer
Unfortunately, that is not valid

You have read through this thread and admitted that we know more than you about the subject
Then you ask, "Are you sure?"

Let me answer that as succinctly as I can
Yes. We are sure

If there were another way, we most assuredly would be crowing about it
LPM's are expensive
Professional LPM's are SIGNIFICANTLY more costly than any of the REALLY CHEAP "hobbyists" LPM's offered
If you think that a Laserbee 5W costs more than you want to spend, try pricing out a Scientech S310 or H410
NO ONE here *wants* to spend money on an LPM

Unfortunately for the hobby:
Retailers, especially the Chinese "mega retailers", are as willing to lie to you as your mommy and grammy are

If you read through this thread (instead of just jumping to the end to write your response to the title of the thread like most Noob's do), you will have seen my post showing me lighting a match, instantly, with a 32mW laser.

Should we then surmise that all (or most) 35mW lasers can light a match instantly?

Even knowing what the current being produced is and which diode is in the laser, will only give us a **WIDE** range of potential outputs
If knowing that your laser is somewhere between 1.2W and 2.2W is enough for you (there is your only real potential "grey area"), then it doesn't really matter, does it?

If, however, you wish to have a reasonably close idea of what your laser is putting out, we *ALL* are left with this . . . . .

There is ONLY ONE WAY TO KNOW what the output on a particular laser is
You MUST measure it with a Laser Power Meter

Peace,
dave



Hi Dave,

Thanks for your humble response. I think perhaps I should clarify my last post.

A few points:
  1. I do not assume to have any more or less intellect than any of our contemporaries on this forum.
  2. I do not assume to have anywhere near as much knowledge and experience in the study of lasers than a large portion of the active members here.
  3. I did not skip any part of your post, or this thread; and in fact read it in its entirety from post #1 to post #26 before making my response.
  4. I see your valid argument points. Yes, a well tuned & focused 32mW can instantly light a match, and the single beam of one laser can be made to look more or less powerful by way of beam-expanders and such.
  5. I do not suggest whatsoever that we should consider replacing standard measurement methods with some silly-burn-test or visual-que.

Please allow me to paraphrase.
The title of this thread is: "What if I Don't Have an LPM?" (What if I can't afford, or do not own an LPM? How can I check the power of my laser? Are there any methods of estimation? What things can I be sure of as a non-LPM owner? What things can I estimate as a non-LPM owner?)
Your post basically says: "Tough luck chaps there is NO OTHER WAY! You cannot estimate a laser's power output by burning, or by visual ques. You're kidding yourself if you try to use any other method or information to estimate your lasers power output."

Yes; I agree with your last post - this may not be the answer we all want to hear, and I'll bet you've heard so much winging about this sad fact that it has frustrated you to no end. "That sucks, why should I have to buy equipment worth more than my few cheap lasers just to get a measurement?" Someone has even gone to the trouble of collaboratively producing a working list of members willing to test! Great work!


What is my logical argument?
By collecting all the available information regarding ones laser; some estimations must be made [by way of logic alone]. They may not be accurate by any means - and one certainly couldn't run mathematical functions using the data; however these estimations may be useful in other faucets of your hobby. This information may include:
  1. How much did you pay for the laser? (Surely a $5 will not be a high quality, finely tuned 3W.)
  2. Where did you buy it from? (How do this company's lasers stack up in their reputation for providing underspec/overspec lasers?)
  3. What model is it? (Has anyone else LPM'd this same model of laser? Assuming it is not faulty, mode-hopping or otherwise - is there enough statistical information available to make a means/average guess as to what the laser might be?)
  4. Dot Size?
  5. Beam Visibility?
  6. Focus Capability?
  7. Burn/Melt Capability?

Yes; all the visual ques may be on a sliding scale that is affected by multiple variables. However if there was no grey area - then all lasers would have the same product in application, and none of us would have anything other than a default-fits-all 5mW. The simple fact that one purchases a higher powered laser with a better focus ring (for the purpose of burning better) suggests by way of logic that there is an expected difference in performance based on power output. Therefore; by way of logic alone - there is a way of estimation. It exists (but may not have been researched, analysed, understood and documented). What if someone owns 10 lasers; 9 of them have been LPM'd - and they are all manufactured using the same components. Would there not be a statistical way of estimating it's likely output? What if I handed you (clearly a veteran in the industry) a group of lasers without telling you their specifications:
  1. $5 5mW plastic penlaser.
  2. $100 50mW waterproof pointer.
  3. $500 3W pointer with properly machined metal.
Would you not be able to have a play with them and take a guess at their power? Are you telling me that you would often confuse the 5mW with the 3W?

If there was no grey area then things like this would not exist:





Summary:

You may be the expert sir, and you may mean well and be telling 100% truth in your post. I am not trying to negate the factual component of your post. I am simply suggesting that there are some useful estimations that can be made, by way of further research and analysis - for those not fortunate enough to own an LPM. It would be excellent if somebody with vast experience in lasers and statistical analysis could research this - and come up with a working statistical model for estimation. Even if it is hit & miss, and works only 3/5 of the time, it's better than nothing.

Once again; I approach the experience & knowledge of this forum and its members from a humble perspective. If I have missed anything please let me know, I appreciate your time in teaching me the knowledge I lack to come to your understanding. For I can be convinced; but will not be bullied into a belief.

Meaning the best for everyone, love this forum,
Belch85

Last edited by Belch85; 05-09-2013 at 12:13 AM.
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:09 AM #32
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Default Re: What if I Don't Have an LPM?

I'm done

See if any of you can make him understand

He doesn't want to believe me

Peace,
dave
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