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Old 07-04-2013, 12:02 PM #33
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Default Re: Open Source LaserBee SDK!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
Yeah, why are you modifying that desktop PC? Go build your own damn PC and quit riding the manufacturer's coat-tails.

Why are you putting a different stereo in that car? Go make your own damn car and quit riding the factory's coat-tails.

Why are you drawing on that paper? Go make your own damn paper and quit riding the paper mill's coat-tails.
Your constant useless and irrelevant exaggerations that make
no sense to try to prove your point just cracks me up....


Jerry


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Old 07-04-2013, 12:52 PM #34
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Default Re: Open Source LaserBee SDK!

^ Thinking even a bit out of the box, it does make sense.
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405nm >> Wickedlasers SONAR by lazeerer peak@968mW
445nm >> Kryton Smooth by lazeerer peak@2075mW
453nm >> Lipstick by rhd peak@158mW
473nm >> Optotronics RPL-B peak@112mW
515nm >> Skylasers HL peak@41mW
532nm >> Novalasers Alpha HP peak@284mW
589nm >> CNI PGL-III-A peak@89mW
594nm >> Laserglow Rigel peak@4mW
635nm >> MXDL by DTR peak@38mW
642nm >> Saillaser peak@23mW
660nm >> CR2 by lazeerer peak@524mW
685nm >> MXDL by lazereer peak@42mW

Above lasers measured with an Ophir nospin LPM


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Old 07-04-2013, 02:42 PM #35
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Default Re: Open Source LaserBee SDK!

Jerry,

I make after market parts for 'hobbyist / sport' products - it is my full time job and my business, in a way similar to your business. (without lasers no one would need LPMs and without the main OEM product my business would not exist also).
Typically these OEM products cost £300 to £600, the original manufacturer is a £multi-million operation.

Not only do I not get chased by the OEM trying to shut me down / making my life difficult, but regularly have their customers contact me after being recommended by the OEM !

It's good for me and good for the OEM and most importantly, it's good for THEIR customers.

I don't understand why you don't see it? (maybe your eyes are closed?).

ATB
MM

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Old 07-05-2013, 01:30 PM #36
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Default Re: Open Source LaserBee SDK!

If I would take a Coherent LPM and modify it to sell as my
own I would have no doubt that Coherent would up my butt
in a heartbeat...


Jerry
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Old 07-05-2013, 01:45 PM #37
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Default Re: Open Source LaserBee SDK!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lasersbee View Post
If I would take a Coherent LPM and modify it to sell as my
own I would have no doubt that Coherent would up my butt
in a heartbeat...


Jerry
But Trevor doesn't sell LaserBees as his own LPM's, he gives away (not sells) software for your LPM's customers.

So this is either a completely nonsensical analogy or I'm definitely missing something here.

Better analogy is if you were producing software as a third-party for Coherent's products.
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Old 07-05-2013, 02:08 PM #38
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Default Re: Open Source LaserBee SDK!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lasersbee View Post
If I would take a Coherent LPM and modify it to sell as my
own I would have no doubt that Coherent would up my butt
in a heartbeat...


Jerry
Well, the obvious comparison here is to the LaserBee I that I'm selling... not hard to read between the lines.

I'm not claiming the hardware as something I made. I haven't rebranded it the "TrevorBee" or anything silly like that (I'm not even sure that would even be illegal). The only difference from a stock LaserBee I is the fact that it's running an improved firmware that is entirely of my own creation.

In fact, it's no different from selling a stock LaserBee I with the original firmware... and including, with the sale, a different microcontroller with Ellipsis on it. Two separate items. Had I done that, would you still be claiming that I modified the LaserBee and that I'm "selling it as my own?" You couldn't, but I suspect you'd still be complaining about the mere fact that Ellipsis exists.

If you did the same for a Coherent LPM, Coherent would not go after you - they would probably just deny the buyer any warranty service (though they would probably still fix issues if you paid). They otherwise have no legal leg to stand on.

A few years ago, Apple got butthurt over a case very similar to this - jailbreaking. They took it to court, and lost. The court decided that once someone owns a device, they're free to do what they want with it. Apple is free to deny any warranty claims, but they can't claim any sort of governance over devices that people purchased from them.

As far as I know, there are no patents on LaserBees (they don't meet the requirements to be awarded one). However, two parts of the LaserBee are protected under copyright law:
  • The circuit layout. - the actual electrical function CANNOT be copyrighted.
  • The actual bytecode contained in the microcontroller, which is impossible to extract anyway.
Those are both protected in the same way that a song or a painting is protected. If either of those were exactly duplicated, that would be a legal claim that you have that would give you ample reason to come after whoever did the duplication. For obvious reasons, I avoided both.

Now... just for the sake of argument, let's go through a list of things that you can modify and sell:
  • A computer from Dell with new RAM installed. It's still a Dell computer, just upgraded.
  • A Honda Civic with a new stereo, better transmission, and a new ECU. It's still a Honda Civic, just upgraded.
  • A Fender electric guitar with different pickups installed. It's still a Fender guitar, just upgraded.
And what falls in the same category as those things on that list?
  • LaserBee with non-stock firmware. It's still a Laserbee, just upgraded.
Jerry, if you're really that concerned about this, have your lawyer call me, write me an email, or send me a letter. I would be happy to respond to all of his inquiries. In fact, I've actually been waiting for correspondence from him since you originally "visited your lawyer" because I developed Peregrine.

Trevor
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Old 07-05-2013, 03:42 PM #39
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Default Re: Open Source LaserBee SDK!

I think Jerry did not get my example....

Put simply, I ride the "coat tails" of the OEM - they are happy about it as I provide accessories for their product and also bespoke options for their customers.
The OEM can get on with their main line manufacturing...

The customer has the option of customising / upgrading the OEM's standard offering, I get business and the OEM isn't side tracked from their main operation.
Everyone is happy - win-win-win


Jerry, I'd be happy to buy one of your LPMs ( I have a Gentec TPM-300, but would like a meter more suited to <3w) but not while you positivly refuse to entertain any 3rd party accessories / upgrades and especially while you continue to almost threaten buyers with the "LEGAL DISCALMER" nonsense.

Hope you see the light some day!
Peace
MM
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Old 07-06-2013, 10:12 AM #40
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Default Re: Open Source LaserBee SDK!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Multimode View Post
Jerry,

I make after market parts for 'hobbyist / sport' products - it is my full time job and my business, in a way similar to your business. (without lasers no one would need LPMs and without the main OEM product my business would not exist also).
Typically these OEM products cost £300 to £600, the original manufacturer is a £multi-million operation.

Not only do I not get chased by the OEM trying to shut me down / making my life difficult, but regularly have their customers contact me after being recommended by the OEM !

It's good for me and good for the OEM and most importantly, it's good for THEIR customers.

I don't understand why you don't see it? (maybe your eyes are closed?).

ATB
MM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Multimode View Post
I think Jerry did not get my example....

Put simply, I ride the "coat tails" of the OEM - they are happy about it as I provide accessories for their product and also bespoke options for their customers.
The OEM can get on with their main line manufacturing...

The customer has the option of customising / upgrading the OEM's standard offering, I get business and the OEM isn't side tracked from their main operation.
Everyone is happy - win-win-win


Jerry, I'd be happy to buy one of your LPMs ( I have a Gentec TPM-300, but would like a meter more suited to <3w) but not while you positivly refuse to entertain any 3rd party accessories / upgrades and especially while you continue to almost threaten buyers with the "LEGAL DISCALMER" nonsense.

Hope you see the light some day!
Peace
MM
What after market "hobbyist / sports" parts do you actually
make and sell ??
What original OEM product to do make "hobbyist / sports"
parts for ???

You can PM me if you like...


Jerry
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Old 07-06-2013, 04:15 PM #41
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Default Re: Open Source LaserBee SDK!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lasersbee View Post
You can PM me if you like...
Jerry
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Old 07-07-2013, 04:22 AM #42
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Default Re: Open Source LaserBee SDK!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheech226 View Post
Eagle eye didn't work on my win 7 64bit laptop. I had to down trade from a laserbee 2.5 to a laserbee a.
As soon as I find a cable to connect my laserbee ii (trevor?) to my laptop I want to try peregrine.
You need a USB-Serial adapter. Drop me a PM if you still need one
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Old 07-07-2013, 04:35 PM #43
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Default Re: Open Source LaserBee SDK!

I guess it really comes down to this:

- Nothing is stopping anyone from loading custom firmware on Laserbee hardware if you have the means.

- However, if you brick/damage your Laserbee with unauthorized firmware, the warranty is void.

It's the same bargain I've made with respect to loading the Rockbox firmware on my music player. I like the Rockbox firmware, but I'm not going to go crying to iRiver if I break anything (though the player was would be just as useless with the original iRiver firmware).
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:27 PM #44
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Default Re: Open Source LaserBee SDK!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bionic-Badger View Post
I guess it really comes down to this:

- Nothing is stopping anyone from loading custom firmware on Laserbee hardware if you have the means.

- However, if you brick/damage your Laserbee with unauthorized firmware, the warranty is void.

It's the same bargain I've made with respect to loading the Rockbox firmware on my music player. I like the Rockbox firmware, but I'm not going to go crying to iRiver if I break anything (though the player was would be just as useless with the original iRiver firmware).
100% agreed. This is just an enormous imaginary issue.

Trevor
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:37 AM #45
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Default Re: Open Source LaserBee SDK!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bionic-Badger View Post
I guess it really comes down to this:

- Nothing is stopping anyone from loading custom firmware on Laserbee hardware if you have the means.

- However, if you brick/damage your Laserbee with unauthorized firmware, the warranty is void.

Yup..... It's as simple as that....


Jerry
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Old 07-08-2013, 11:23 AM #46
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Default Re: Open Source LaserBee SDK!

To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if some people start buying laserbee's purely because they want to load "aftermarket" firmware on it. It gives people another reason to purchase your product.

I have absolutely nothing against you Jerry, but I believe the constant back and forth arguing isn't really a good look. All that needs to be said imo is that installing this firmware will void your warranty. People still need to purchase your product to install this firmware so it isn't decreasing profits. It actually might be increasing them.

You do make a good LPM which is why so many people buy them and they're so popular amongst the laser community. Installing custom firmware is almost exactly the same as loading after market software on say a DSLR. It adds extra features/flexibility but voids the warranty.

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Last edited by LaZeRz; 07-08-2013 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 07-08-2013, 01:36 PM #47
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Default Re: Open Source LaserBee SDK!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lasersbee View Post
Yup..... It's as simple as that....


Jerry
It's a far cry from your first reply to your agreement with everyone here... why the sudden change of heart?

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Old 07-08-2013, 04:27 PM #48
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Default Re: Open Source LaserBee SDK!

Hi All,

I guess it also boils down to weighing up the balance of what real life advantage 3rd party firmware gives over the OEM firmware and loosing the manufacturers warantee.

I wouldn't do it on a meter that was under warantee.

ATB
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