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Old 08-30-2010, 01:08 PM #1
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Default TrustFire Protected 18650s

So I just ordered a pair from DX, the grey ones to be precise, along with a charger.

They seem to be pretty decent.

I'll post some results and a review in this thread once they arrive.

Anything I should be aware of? These *are* my first 18650s.


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Old 08-30-2010, 01:37 PM #2
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Default Re: TrustFire Protected 18650s

Quote:
Originally Posted by goninanbl00d View Post
So I just ordered a pair from DX, the grey ones to be precise, along with a charger.

They seem to be pretty decent.

I'll post some results and a review in this thread once they arrive.

Anything I should be aware of? These *are* my first 18650s.
Here's a link comparing protected 18650s.

Quote:
Note: TrustFire TR2400 (gray) is very variable in capacity.
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Old 08-30-2010, 06:46 PM #3
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Default Re: TrustFire Protected 18650s

I just got a set of Soshine 2800mAh's with four more coming. Cant wait to see if they are as good as I hear. I also hear that the 3000mAh GTL's are good LINK. Ordered a pair of those as well. Unfortunately there are still a lot of good batteries were not tested in the CPF 18650 comparison thread linked to in the previous post. Also TrustFire has a few different models of the 18650. What is the rated mAh and the color of the battery?



I have a few different types of 18650's but I will say the the blue TrustFire 2500mAh in the picture is the one that gives me the highest mW when running LPM test with an 18650 fresh out of the charger. But on the other hand it may have shortest runtime of any of the batteries that I have.

Last edited by DTR; 08-30-2010 at 06:57 PM.
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Old 08-30-2010, 09:34 PM #4
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Default Re: TrustFire Protected 18650s

no-names usually don't match their claims.

I, for one, like having my explosive chemistry products named "___fire."
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Old 08-30-2010, 09:45 PM #5
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Default Re: TrustFire Protected 18650s

Quote:
Originally Posted by BShanahan14rulz View Post
no-names usually don't match their claims.

I, for one, like having my explosive chemistry products named "___fire."
Definitely agree never get a no name Chinese battery. That is why all the batteries that I have shown in the previous post are the top names out there. Soshine, AW, Trustfire and Ultrafire.

Unless you are trying to say that Soshine and AW are no name batteries?

Last edited by DTR; 08-30-2010 at 09:48 PM.
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Old 08-31-2010, 03:49 PM #6
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Default Re: TrustFire Protected 18650s

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Originally Posted by DTR View Post
Definitely agree never get a no name Chinese battery. That is why all the batteries that I have shown in the previous post are the top names out there. Soshine, AW, Trustfire and Ultrafire.

Unless you are trying to say that Soshine and AW are no name batteries?
I'm not saying Soshine and AW suck, but I'm also not going to say that trustfire and ultrafire are the top names out there...
I've heard of Panasonic, Sanyo, LG, and Sony before I've heard of trustfire and ultrafire. (Again with the fire in the name... Surefire works because they make flashlights and claim to be "sure to fire," but I don't think any of us wants our battery purchase to end with a fire...)

Trustfire and Ultrafire are companies trying to make some money. AW uses China cells too, but we pay a price for AW to go and find the cells that perform the best and have the safety features that they should have.

Basically, there's too many fires. If you tell someone "get name-brand cells" they'll get name brand cells. If you tell them "get name-brand cells, and some soshines test good, certain ultrafire cells are good, more trustfires are better than ultrafires, but some are just as bad" then they will go out into the market of ____fire marketing and pick a cell that ends in "fire." While they may get cells that work perfectly fine, they are even less likely to get a bad cell from a manufacturer that recycles the cells that don't pass QC, instead of selling them in bulk anyways.
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Old 08-31-2010, 04:21 PM #7
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Default Re: TrustFire Protected 18650s

Quote:
Originally Posted by BShanahan14rulz View Post
I'm not saying Soshine and AW suck, but I'm also not going to say that trustfire and ultrafire are the top names out there...
I've heard of Panasonic, Sanyo, LG, and Sony before I've heard of trustfire and ultrafire. (Again with the fire in the name... Surefire works because they make flashlights and claim to be "sure to fire," but I don't think any of us wants our battery purchase to end with a fire...)

Trustfire and Ultrafire are companies trying to make some money. AW uses China cells too, but we pay a price for AW to go and find the cells that perform the best and have the safety features that they should have.

Basically, there's too many fires. If you tell someone "get name-brand cells" they'll get name brand cells. If you tell them "get name-brand cells, and some soshines test good, certain ultrafire cells are good, more trustfires are better than ultrafires, but some are just as bad" then they will go out into the market of ____fire marketing and pick a cell that ends in "fire." While they may get cells that work perfectly fine, they are even less likely to get a bad cell from a manufacturer that recycles the cells that don't pass QC, instead of selling them in bulk anyways.
A fire is never a good thing.

Has anyone tried these Panasonic Li-ion Lithium 18650 3.6V/3.7V 2.9Ah/2900mAh! - eBay (item 300382015713 end time Sep-25-10 17:31:12 PDT)
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Old 08-31-2010, 04:44 PM #8
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Default Re: TrustFire Protected 18650s

Quote:
Originally Posted by DTR View Post


Why get batteries with tabs soldered on them? They are not protected either.
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Old 08-31-2010, 05:20 PM #9
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Default Re: TrustFire Protected 18650s

These are some of the highest capacity cells you can get, the highest without going to cells that have to be charged to higher voltages on a specialized charger. I'd get some if I had some spare moneys lying around...

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Old 08-31-2010, 06:28 PM #10
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Default Re: TrustFire Protected 18650s

Ordered one. Well see how it does.
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Old 08-31-2010, 06:34 PM #11
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Default Re: TrustFire Protected 18650s

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZapU View Post

Why get batteries with tabs soldered on them? They are not protected either.
Most high quality batteries are going to have tabs on them. Just remove them it's simple.
I have a pair of these Panasonic's I got them from here
New 2 X Panasonic NCR18650 2900 mah 18650 Li-on battery - eBay (item 110462104156 end time Sep-21-10 01:52:54 PDT)
he is also a CPF member.

All of those fire brand batteries suck don't buy them. Get something from LG, sanyo, Panasonic or samsung. Just stay away from the cheap chinese batteries.
One of the biggest difference in the safety of these batteries is in the construction and the quality of the materials. Brands like sanyo or LG use only the highest quality chemicals and are made in clean rooms. You don't want contaminates or low grade chemicals in your cell it can be very unsafe.
read this
Lithium-ion safety concerns


As far as wanting a cell with a protection circuit, why?
They provide a false sense of safety. Lots of people on CPF and DX have found some of them to be faulty, not working.
Also many times they wont fit in your laser or flashlight. If you know what your doing you don't need a protection circuit.
Give me a LG or sanyo over a trustfire any day.
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Old 09-01-2010, 12:59 AM #12
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Default Re: TrustFire Protected 18650s

Quote:
Originally Posted by rpaloalto View Post
Most high quality batteries are going to have tabs on them. Just remove them it's simple.
I have a pair of these Panasonic's I got them from here
New 2 X Panasonic NCR18650 2900 mah 18650 Li-on battery - eBay (item 110462104156 end time Sep-21-10 01:52:54 PDT)
he is also a CPF member.

All of those fire brand batteries suck don't buy them. Get something from LG, sanyo, Panasonic or samsung. Just stay away from the cheap chinese batteries.
One of the biggest difference in the safety of these batteries is in the construction and the quality of the materials. Brands like sanyo or LG use only the highest quality chemicals and are made in clean rooms. You don't want contaminates or low grade chemicals in your cell it can be very unsafe.
read this
Lithium-ion safety concerns

As far as wanting a cell with a protection circuit, why?
They provide a false sense of safety. Lots of people on CPF and DX have found some of them to be faulty, not working.
Also many times they wont fit in your laser or flashlight. If you know what your doing you don't need a protection circuit.
Give me a LG or sanyo over a trustfire any day.
You can get batteries without tabs, that was my point.

"False sense of safety? If you know what you are doing..." I hear that from people that don't like motorcycle helmets, seat belts and condoms. All are known to fail. So that means we should not use them?

Here is the link to the Panasonic data sheet for those unprotected batteries you linked to. Below is a quote from it:

Quote:
To ensure safety, the referenced Li-ion cell is not sold as a bare cell.
Li-ion cells must be integrated with the appropriate safety circuitry via an
authorized Panasonic Li-ion pack assembler.
Unprotected batteries were designed to be used in packs (that's why some have tabs) with external protection circuits, like laptop computers.

I'm sorry, but if I have a choice between a protected battery and one that is not, I'll take my chances with the protected one. And I wear a helmet when I ride, always fasten my seat belt, and always use a condom when......
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Old 09-01-2010, 02:17 AM #13
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Default Re: TrustFire Protected 18650s

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZapU View Post
You can get batteries without tabs, that was my point.
But these panasonics are the bee's knees. Putting up with tabs is fine.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ZapU View Post
"False sense of safety? If you know what you are doing..." I hear that from people that don't like motorcycle helmets, seat belts and condoms. All are known to fail. So that means we should not use them?
Safety is always good. That's why you should pick this cell over a ____fire. At least if a name-brand cell is abused, it doesn't explode...



Quote:
Originally Posted by ZapU View Post
Here is the link to the Panasonic data sheet for those unprotected batteries you linked to. Below is a quote from it:

Unprotected batteries were designed to be used in packs (that's why some have tabs) with external protection circuits, like laptop computers.
There's no denying that Li-Ion cells were never meant to be unprotected, there is no manufacturer who will tell you to use an 18650 without any protection circuit. This is also the reason why you can't just walk into radiocrap and buy Li-Ion cells. But if the overdischarge protection is taken care of by the device and the overcharge protection is taken care of by the charger, then all the protection circuit will do at best is provide redundancy, and at worst hinder the performance of the device.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZapU View Post
I'm sorry, but if I have a choice between a protected battery and one that is not, I'll take my chances with the protected one. And I wear a helmet when I ride, always fasten my seat belt, and always use a condom when......
You can never be too safe, but performance comes with drawbacks.

I'm not saying that using an unprotected cell is safer than a protected one, but I would rather use an unprotected Panasonic than a protected ____fire. The Panasonic is a good candidate because it doesn't gain extra capacity by increasing the charge voltage. Therefore, an overcharge protection circuit, if designed properly, shouldn't hinder the charging of the cell. It will, however, trip ifyou try to discharge the cell too quickly. Too quickly is defined by the cell manufacturer, but there isn't a way to give this information to the cell protection circuit.

I guess my point is, to the average user who doesn't want to learn about Li-Ion's, but would rather just use them, they should get protected cells. If you know the hazards and understand and take the steps to safely charge your unprotected cells on a charger that uses a true CC/CV charging algorithm, then these cells would be a great high-capacity option.

Edit: Panasonic's cell testing procedure a few years back. other real manufacturers use tests very similar. ____fire companies don't test this stringently.
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...2008015847.pdf

Last edited by BShanahan14rulz; 09-01-2010 at 02:20 AM.
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Old 09-01-2010, 05:55 AM #14
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Default Re: TrustFire Protected 18650s

Quote:
Originally Posted by BShanahan14rulz View Post
I'm not saying that using an unprotected cell is safer than a protected one, but I would rather use an unprotected Panasonic than a protected ____fire. The Panasonic is a good candidate because it doesn't gain extra capacity by increasing the charge voltage. Therefore, an overcharge protection circuit, if designed properly, shouldn't hinder the charging of the cell. It will, however, trip if you try to discharge the cell too quickly.
I agree.

I have found the U.L. tested Sanyo cells to be much more reliable than the "chinese" protected cells.

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Old 09-01-2010, 09:45 PM #15
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Default Re: TrustFire Protected 18650s

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryDFW View Post
I agree.

I have found the U.L. tested Sanyo cells to be much more reliable than the "chinese" protected cells.

LarryDFW
Plus Sanyo, panasonic and LG can all be found on the web. They have data sheets published on these batteries. Good luck finding any data on a ---fire cell. LG electronics a child company from LGchemicals. They make these batteries from scratch.

If you really want a good cell and you feel you must have a safety circuit on the cell. You can always buy the circuit at allbatery.com or DX.
Rechargeable Batteries & Battery Chargers - Protection circuit Module ( PCB ) Round for 3.7V Li-Polymer Battery (3.5A limit)-PCB1SR

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.26114
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Old 09-02-2010, 02:42 PM #16
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Default Re: TrustFire Protected 18650s

That DX link is to a common linear regulator (in fact, the 7135, which I wish someone with an O-scope would test...) \

Here's another battery protection circuit, SHOULD be fine with ___fire unprotected cells because it has more conservative overdischarge current cut-off of ~2A: Protection circuit Module (PCB) for 3.6V / 3.7V Li-ion (18650/18500) cell Battery

The other one, linked by rpaloalto, has different specs. It would be perfect for better cells that can actually safely put out 6A.
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