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Old 04-28-2012, 10:41 PM #1
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Default Not sure if battery or driver issue

I have two ben boost drivers at 914mA apiece.
I have then wired up as shown:

(direct link for massive size)
http://i.imgur.com/UZjwm.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OAcD2.jpg


I'm running an M140 and expecting to get 2W out of it.
But I have an issue.


When I power the entire thing with a single 18650 (Ultrafire BRC 18650 3000mAh 3.7V li-ion), the diode flashes on once and immediately shuts off. The drivers are ice cold, no heat generated anywhere.

When I power it with 2 AA batteries, it stays on with an infinite cycle. No heat is generated anywhere (not even noticeably in the heatsink). Some burning power, bean is distinct in the dark, hard to spot in a lit room.

When I power it with a stand Motorola Droid 3 battery (3.7v Li-ion 1500mAh, model name BF5X), the diode produces a (what I assume to be) full power lase but for only a second or two before shutting off. The beam is very distinct in a lit room. The runtime varies each time. Sometimes it goes for a split second like the 18650, sometimes it runs for 5 seconds. For longer (3+ second) runs, the drivers get slightly warm.

When I connect a 4ohm resister (smallest I have) to my positive lead to my battery using the 18650, the diode lases as normal. I doubt the output is full strength, because of the resistor (and very little heat is generated on any component other than the resister - it gets VERY hot, but never fails).

Same thing as above happens when used with the Motorola phone battery.



What does this sound like to you guys?
There's obviously an issue somewhere... I'm 99.9% certain everything is wired right. My 18650 battery worked fine in my 405nm 478mA build.


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Old 04-28-2012, 10:52 PM #2
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Default Re: Not sure if battery or driver issue

The wirings seems correct.
You need to heatsink the ic's for more reliable working. The drivers may be slightly warm but the ic can't dump the heat fast enough.
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Old 04-28-2012, 10:55 PM #3
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Default Re: Not sure if battery or driver issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blord View Post
The wirings seems correct.
You need to heatsink the ic's for more reliable working. The drivers may be slightly warm but the ic can't dump the heat fast enough.
Which components are the IC's? I'm putting off setting them onto a heatsink for the time being because I do not yet have the heatsink I will use in the final build. And my thermal adhesive is not here yet.

Would it really generate THAT much heat THAT fast with the 18650 to shut off immediately?
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Old 04-28-2012, 11:18 PM #4
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Default Re: Not sure if battery or driver issue

-Check the batteries internal resistance if possible,
-If it is an old battery, try using a FRESH one and remember AW IMR's are the batteries of choice for 445nm builds..
-Or otherwise FULLY CHARGE the existing battery and see if the same problem persists or there is anything different.
Since you are running them 1.83A ~4.6Vf, You will be drawing just about 3A i suppose from a fresh 4.2V battery with a low internal resistance i dont see any problem..

As far as the ben-boosts overheating at 914mA in 1-3seconds, i am not sure but it sure does need heatsinking, I think without heatsinking they would definitely work fine for a few seconds but 1-3s is way too quick..
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Old 04-28-2012, 11:36 PM #5
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Default Re: Not sure if battery or driver issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by sinner View Post
-Check the batteries internal resistance if possible,
-If it is an old battery, try using a FRESH one and remember AW IMR's are the batteries of choice for 445nm builds..
-Or otherwise FULLY CHARGE the existing battery and see if the same problem persists or there is anything different.
Since you are running them 1.83A ~4.6Vf, You will be drawing just about 3A i suppose from a fresh 4.2V battery with a low internal resistance i dont see any problem..

As far as the ben-boosts overheating at 914mA in 1-3seconds, i am not sure but it sure does need heatsinking, I think without heatsinking they would definitely work fine for a few seconds but 1-3s is way too quick..
I don't have any way to check the batteries' resistance.
It's not an old battery per say, but knowing ultrafire and other cheap chinese brands, who knows. I got it from Amazon no more than 2 months ago.
Could you specify some more on AW IMR?
Right now I'm going to give it a full charge and see what that does.
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Old 04-28-2012, 11:45 PM #6
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Default Re: Not sure if battery or driver issue

These are Li-Ion Chemistries..
The ICRs (LiCoO2 OR Regular Li-Ion) are intended for high capacity nominal discharge applications.
Lithium IMRs (Li-Mn) are nominal capacity but HIGH DISCHARGE capable batteries.

If you want to check the internal resistance of the batteries you just need a Resistor (Any 0.8~2.0Ohm 2-10W Resistor) and a multimeter and follow the instructions

1) First, measure the battery's voltage when charged. This is V1
2) Next, connect your multimeter leads to each side of the resistor and briefly connect the resistor across the battery. Note the voltage reading, this is V2.
3) Measure your resistor to get its precise resistance, this is R

4) The battery's internal resistance (Ri) is calculated with the formula:

Ri = (V1-V2)*R/V2

Example: cell measures 4.2V unloaded, 4.0V when connected to a 4 ohm resistor has an internal resistance of 200 mOhms (0.2 ohms)

A new high quality 18650 battery will have an internal resistance under 100mOhms.

A used up 18650 battery will have a resistance 400mOhms or more.

So, feel free to test a few batteries you have around and post what you find!!

Instructions Originally posted by Drlava 11-06-2010
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Old 04-28-2012, 11:52 PM #7
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Default Re: Not sure if battery or driver issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by sinner View Post
These are Li-Ion Chemistries..
The ICRs (LiCoO2 OR Regular Li-Ion) are intended for high capacity nominal discharge applications.
Lithium IMRs (Li-Mn) are nominal capacity but HIGH DISCHARGE capable batteries.

If you want to check the internal resistance of the batteries you just need a Resistor (Any 0.8~2.0Ohm 2-10W Resistor) and a multimeter and follow the instructions

1) First, measure the battery's voltage when charged. This is V1
2) Next, connect your multimeter leads to each side of the resistor and briefly connect the resistor across the battery. Note the voltage reading, this is V2.
3) Measure your resistor to get its precise resistance, this is R

4) The battery's internal resistance (Ri) is calculated with the formula:

Ri = (V1-V2)*R/V2

Example: cell measures 4.2V unloaded, 4.0V when connected to a 4 ohm resistor has an internal resistance of 200 mOhms (0.2 ohms)

A new high quality 18650 battery will have an internal resistance under 100mOhms.

A used up 18650 battery will have a resistance 400mOhms or more.

So, feel free to test a few batteries you have around and post what you find!!

Instructions Originally posted by Drlava 11-06-2010
Thanks for the formulas, but I don't have a multimeter (or know anyone who has one).

So I guess my problem is most definitely my battery? I need one capable of a very high discharge rate, correct?
If that's the case, should the "Panasonic 3100mah #18650 Lithium-Ion Cell" (topmost battery) from here: 18650 Batteries & Chargers work correctly?
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Old 04-29-2012, 02:04 AM #8
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Default Re: Not sure if battery or driver issue

Tested with two different freshly charged Ultrafire 18650's, same results as before.
Just for sh!ts and giggles, I tried a different phone battery (the one I use in my phone, just an extended version of the one I was testing with before). That one lasts a consistent 10 seconds before it shuts itself off. I assume it just has a better power output (until 10 or so seconds).
I ordered an 18650 from LarryDFW, hopefully that'll fix things right up.
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Old 04-29-2012, 03:17 AM #9
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Default Re: Not sure if battery or driver issue

Wheedy;

I don't think the BenBoost switching driver should heat up that fast.

The Panasonic 3100mah without protection circuit has about 100 milliOhms resistance
. . . . . vs 160 milliOhms resistance with protection IC.

That translates to 60% less Internal Resistance in the cell.

Let us know how the Panasonic cell performs it's job.

Larry

P.S. The shipping address I received was in Houston, not Waco.
Is that correct ?
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Last edited by LarryDFW; 04-29-2012 at 03:32 AM.
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Old 04-29-2012, 03:27 AM #10
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Default Re: Not sure if battery or driver issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryDFW View Post
Wheedy;

I don't think the BenBoost switching driver should heat up that fast.

The Panasonic 3100mah without protection circuit has about 100 milliOhms resistance
vs 160 milliOhms resistance with protection IC.

That translates to 60% less Internal Resistance in the cell.

Let us know how the Panasonic cell works.

Larry

P.S. The shipping address I received was in Houston, not Waco.
I'll be able to comment on how it works on either the 7th or 8th of May when I get back home.

(About the shipping address: the spring semester at Baylor is finished in the upcoming week, so I opted to have it sent to my house)
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Old 04-29-2012, 08:41 AM #11
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Default Re: Not sure if battery or driver issue

I'm sorry i didnt understand that you dont had a multimeter, The new battery from Larry should work fine. Any brand-name battery is good as long as it's genuine..
As long as you dont use this type of batteries you should be fine.
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Old 04-29-2012, 02:44 PM #12
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Default Re: Not sure if battery or driver issue

Those are actually the exact batteries I have right now XD
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