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Old 12-30-2014, 09:24 AM #1
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Default New Red Panasonic/Sanyo 18650 BF's compared to Green B's (NCR18650B/BF)

If I'm not mistaking these JUST came out. (edit- were just released in Nov, though I don't see any discussion about them yet here) Just thought a number of people might appreciate this excellent and side by side comparison (specs and curves):

https://www.akkuteile.de/tpl/download/NCR-18650BF.pdf

The BF's are virtually the same, but weigh 1 gram less (out of ~47g) they have a higher density cathode and SiO added to the anode. The discharge is actually slightly better as a result.

They did this because I just bought four new B's. That's how it works. Seriously though, the difference is almost negligible so not a huge deal. If you like red then you will be pleased as the color has changed. Alternating the green and red in series makes them work better around Christmas/Festivus/Holidays.

Appears Sanyo has a version of it too.


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Old 12-30-2014, 10:13 AM #2
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Default Re: New Red Panasonic/Sanyo 18650 BF's compared to Green B's (NCR18650B/BF)

Yeah, I wouldn't run out and buy all new ones to replace the ones I have. Hadn't seen those yet but I still have one B and another 6 PD awaiting builds at some point.
I think that at this point I would personally just buy PF cells as the capacity is not much less but they can handle more than anything I have load wise. 10 Amp draw is no joke
I would say there are far more B cells out there as people love their run times.
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Old 12-30-2014, 10:27 PM #3
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Default Re: New Red Panasonic/Sanyo 18650 BF's compared to Green B's (NCR18650B/BF)

I'd think the B's are fine though for 99% of applications here though. Not even pushing 50% of their max current when using a 3W 9mm 445 diode. The driver efficiency is not perfect of course, but even taking that in to account it isn't over 50%. Do you not think so?

I need to get some magnet button tops aka spacers for my flat tops. It is hard to find US sources for some reason. I suppose I could put a dab of solder on the positive end maybe. What do you use? It almost looks like you can pull out something on the Pan B's but I dare not.

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Old 12-31-2014, 12:15 AM #4
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Default Re: New Red Panasonic/Sanyo 18650 BF's compared to Green B's (NCR18650B/BF)

They are all great batteries. I just don't care much about run time. There's only one thing I have that would require the 10 amp cells and it isn't even a laser.
Think I've bought my really slim magnets from Fasttech. Since you are getting into all this you should buy a bunch of different ones to have on hand. I'm honestly not sure where to buy them in the US. They do have some things at RadioShack and Harborfreight you can get if you need them now though. Just by the minimum you need and all different ones from Fasttech for future stuff to save lots of $.

Found 295 magnets at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
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Old 12-31-2014, 12:44 AM #5
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Default Re: New Red Panasonic/Sanyo 18650 BF's compared to Green B's (NCR18650B/BF)

Great, thanks. I do need some within a week or two, so I should prob use a domestic US company. That or create something makeshift until they get here. I don't know if the plating makes any difference, probably not.

For the batteries I would like to test the off brand ones I have and compare them to the Pan B's. I got a really really cheap one on eBay, would be interesting to see how that works out. It is pretty light though. Haven't used it much yet though. Harbor Freight can be great!
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Old 12-31-2014, 02:36 AM #6
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Default Re: New Red Panasonic/Sanyo 18650 BF's compared to Green B's (NCR18650B/BF)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BodhiSci View Post
I need to get some magnet button tops aka spacers for my flat tops. It is hard to find US sources for some reason. I suppose I could put a dab of solder on the positive end maybe. What do you use? It almost looks like you can pull out something on the Pan B's but I dare not.
I solder a button on the cells for my customers that need them . . .



I do think the new NCR18650BF Sanyo cells are better . . .

and we are currently switching over to them . . .

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Old 12-31-2014, 05:29 AM #7
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Default Re: New Red Panasonic/Sanyo 18650 BF's compared to Green B's (NCR18650B/BF)

Larry, I have a JetLasers 532nm pointer which won't put out near full power without 4.2 VDC, using a couple of different 26650 batteries, they won't hold the voltage up there very long, do you have any recommendations for a battery which will hold their voltage longer in that form factor @4A draw?

Thanks
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Old 01-03-2015, 06:06 AM #8
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Default Re: New Red Panasonic/Sanyo 18650 BF's compared to Green B's (NCR18650B/BF)

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Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
Larry, I have a JetLasers 532nm pointer which won't put out near full power without 4.2 VDC, using a couple of different 26650 batteries, they won't hold the voltage up there very long, do you have any recommendations for a battery which will hold their voltage longer in that form factor @4A draw?

Thanks
I would use the Samsung 18650 25R cells . . .

They will easily handle the 4 amp load without sagging . . .

I have some available @ $11.95 prepaid in contin. U.S.

If you want 26650 cells, then I would buy King Kong 4000 mah cells.
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Old 01-03-2015, 09:50 AM #9
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Default Re: New Red Panasonic/Sanyo 18650 BF's compared to Green B's (NCR18650B/BF)

So this is interesting Larry. DO those Samsung have less sagging than the b and p Panasonics and obviously you've done some testing on those Sanyo cells. Unless it's somewhere else are you ready to share your findings?
I tried to find a listing/shootout of the available cells 2014 and couldn't seem to find a comparison. Only came up with older reviews.
I think I need to do some testing with my variable DC power supply compared to running a couple 18350 for my new 1.5W 520nm unit. I've noticed a couple others posting LPM results and there seems to be a peak over 1.5W and then somewhere around 100mW drop immediately. Should be getting a pair of "genuine AW IMR 18350 today or Monday as I suspect mine are fake although the problem is the couple sets I have look just like my original ones from awhile ago. Pretty sure you or someone else posted an internal resistance check. Will have to find that test and see if my Fluke 87V is up for the task.
Seems like 18650s are everywhere but you are much more limited on everything below that size for a good quality cell. Care to weigh in on that?
Thanks for providing a source for legit cells right here on the forum. Sick of what is going on right now with the scams. O-Like owed me some $ so I purchased a couple lasers from them for very little and they included a couple of those Ultrafire 18650 that weigh less than a genuine cell. Haven't (very carefully/safely) opened them up yet to see just how bad they are. Looked through all my cells and found one other all red Ultrafire in with my unused cells that weighs about the same as those other ones. Was going to use them in builds that had very little draw but they kind of make me edgy so all 3 are just sitting now separated from everything else. I just refer to them as my Ultrascam grenades.
I took a look at your link to the Sanyo and I'm assuming that that is what you get now instead of the Panasonics it shows.

Alaskan, there are many ways to make an 18650 fit nice. One way is to go to an auto parts store and buy water hose (such as for coolant) and then split it so it grips your battery and still fits in the host. Not sure what size off the top of my head as I now buy adapters from places like Fasttech. VERY inexpensive. Just buy a few of all the different ones o have on hand for future projects

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Old 01-18-2015, 06:01 PM #10
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Default Re: New Red Panasonic/Sanyo 18650 BF's compared to Green B's (NCR18650B/BF)

The Samsung 25R #18650 cells are the top performers for high current draw .
But they only have a capacity of 2500mah . .

The new Sanyo NCR18650BF cells do maintain their voltage better with lower Internal Resistance. And, of course, they have the highest capacity @ 3400mah (36% more than the 25R cells).

Most of the 405 boost circuits will run great off of the Sanyo cells @ about 4 amps . . .

Since #18650 cells are produced by the millions,

R & D for these cells is way ahead of the other less common sizes . . .

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Old 01-19-2015, 12:28 AM #11
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Default Re: New Red Panasonic/Sanyo 18650 BF's compared to Green B's (NCR18650B/BF)

how are these better than the last ones you sold? i see the capacity is the same. I'm assuming these handle more current draw and/or have lower internal resistance?
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Old 01-22-2015, 02:15 AM #12
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Default Re: New Red Panasonic/Sanyo 18650 BF's compared to Green B's (NCR18650B/BF)

The new Sanyo NCR18650BF cells do maintain their voltage better with lower Internal Resistance.

Anode has added Silicon Oxide . . .

Here is more detailed discharge graph comparisons:

Cell Comparison NCR18650B vs. NCR18650BF
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Last edited by LarryDFW; 01-22-2015 at 02:17 AM.
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