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Old 02-10-2012, 12:54 AM #17
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Default Re: How much do good batteries matter?

I hear what you're saying guys and I do agree with you in theory (kind of hard to argue with facts in my experience). In practice though, I have noticed differences, where there shouldn't be any, when using good batteries vs cheap ones. I have no explanation to offer. Maybe something was off in one test or observation, but not over dozens


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Old 02-10-2012, 01:23 AM #18
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Default Re: How much do good batteries matter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Mo View Post
Just curious, I searched this and didn't find much. Can someone put in perspective how much good batteries matter when it comes to straight power output? I know I have 2 18650's that have almost double the power difference in some lasers I have. What 18650's/chargers are recommended? And are there examples of LPM results with bad/good cells?

thanks guys, still learning
Quite often people buy top of the line batteries, and trying to save money on charger...



Having a good Li-ion battery charger is very important part of your "equipment".
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Old 02-10-2012, 06:16 AM #19
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Default Re: How much do good batteries matter?

I want a good charger too, thats something I need to look into
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Old 02-10-2012, 10:37 AM #20
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Default Re: How much do good batteries matter?

Hey Joe Mo did you order any new batteries for it yet? As for the charger the Pila charger is really good. Some think it's expensive, but many chargers sold in the store for ni-cad & nickel-metal batteries cost just as much if not more. Of course comparing the Pila against those very cheap chargers from DX, well yes then it is expensive; but you get what you pay for.
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Old 02-10-2012, 11:42 AM #21
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Default Re: How much do good batteries matter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Mo View Post
I want a good charger too, thats something I need to look into
Pila is recommended by many people , but Pila is VERY overpriced (around 50 USD for 2 channel charger) for what it offers.

Maybe it is not for you at this point , but for that money (and much less) you can buy Hobby charger. By carefully following instructions you can use it to charge MANY types of cells.

Soshine - newest models are the fastest (pushing 1A per channel), 4 channel model have many safety features, that other chargers can only dream of.
Top quality cell is a must.

Xtar - also called "Poor's man Pila " is another high quality charger / especially WP2 ver. 02.
WP6 (6 channels) would be overkill for somebody who will not charge so often.

Buying charger is like an investment.

Yes, you can buy 5 bucks charger, but eventually you will end up buying one of high performance chargers.


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Old 02-10-2012, 12:06 PM #22
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Default Re: How much do good batteries matter?

I thought they tested those chargers on CPF and found they don't follow the proper CC/CV?
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Old 02-10-2012, 01:24 PM #23
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Default Re: How much do good batteries matter?

Yes, they tested them years ago.

We are talking about chargers in 2012.

Since then, Soshine upgraded to Ver 03, and Xtar to Ver. 02

Many problems are reported with Pila charger , working with new high capacity batteries. On CPF as well.

Pila is not to blame . Why?

Pila clearly said : Our charger is to be used with Pila batteries . They probably know why.

Pila is very good charger - YES. Price of more than 50 USD - big NO.

If you go CC/CV way - features - Hobby chargers will eat Pila for breakfast


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Old 02-10-2012, 01:36 PM #24
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Default Re: How much do good batteries matter?

Thanks I'll have to jump back over to CPF when I have some time, I'd like to see an in-depth review with graphs of them. I've used a Pana 3100 in the Pila w/o issues, looks like I will need to do some reading on CPF soon.

Do you have any links on CPF for the Xtar & Soshine in-depth reviews?

As far as Pila's statement, they have always stated that, no shock there.....buy their charger & buy their batteries.....otherwise how can they guarantee someone else's product........that's marketing for ya.
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Optotronics RPL-500 & RPL-450 Melles Griot Beam Expanders 3x, 10x, 20x, Zoom 2.5x-10x
Nova Endeavor Series Laser - Average: 305.4mW Peak: 329.8mW
Nova Lasers X125, X150 & X175, DL100, BFGLaser 125mW

A-Laser Model AD66Y0PGD 660nm 200mW
DX-200 660nm & 532nm, Leadlights & numerous 5mw-100mW 532mn
IgorT (6x) 209mW & (PHR) 140mW, Kryton 155mW, Daguin 165mW
Wicked Lasers S3 Spyder Krypton 1W model and 750mW+ model (839mW)
Wicked Lasers S3 Spyder Arctic G1 (825mW) and Arctic G2 (805mW) SmartSwitch Technology V1 & V2 Models w/Expanded Optic Kits
Jayrob 18650 w/MicroBoost & CU Heatsink A140 Diode 900mW, 295mW Pen by Pontiacg5
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Coherent's Newest High Performance LabMax-TOP Laser Power/Energy Meter Accuracy 1.0%, Power Resolution 0.00001 Statistical Analysis: Min, Max, Mean, Range, Std Dev, Energy Dose, & Stability; Trend Charting, Tuning, Beam Stability Analysis, Extra Large Positional Display (112mm x 78mm) and Data Logging to a USB Flash Drive Directly on the Meter or PC w/ LabView Software.

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Chargers: Pila IBC (Swiss Designed & Engineered) the Gold Standard (UL). Xtar SP2 & VP1, Soshine SC-S1max V3 EagleTac & KeepPower 18650 3400mAh AA/AAA La Crosse BC1000 Maha MH-C9000 Eneloops
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Old 02-10-2012, 02:30 PM #25
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Default Re: How much do good batteries matter?

Google search is powerful tool.

This is only one case of defective Pila chargers.It starts with one guy, and others reported same defect as well. As one guy said "Pila is not the best - just less bad than others". I agree, but for 50 bucks vs. 15-30 USD it must be more than perfect charger!

PILA IBC Charger question
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Old 02-10-2012, 09:53 PM #26
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Default Re: How much do good batteries matter?

Yup google search is a powerful tool AND I do know how to use it, However since you made a point about the new versions of those chargers being what they are, I actually thought you had info to back that theory up?? I'm still going with Pila is the best plug & play compliant CC/CV charger until I see data showing otherwise; I own 6 of them and know what I'm talking about. Any product can have a defect in a unit or two or even a batch once & a while.
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Optotronics RPL-500 & RPL-450 Melles Griot Beam Expanders 3x, 10x, 20x, Zoom 2.5x-10x
Nova Endeavor Series Laser - Average: 305.4mW Peak: 329.8mW
Nova Lasers X125, X150 & X175, DL100, BFGLaser 125mW

A-Laser Model AD66Y0PGD 660nm 200mW
DX-200 660nm & 532nm, Leadlights & numerous 5mw-100mW 532mn
IgorT (6x) 209mW & (PHR) 140mW, Kryton 155mW, Daguin 165mW
Wicked Lasers S3 Spyder Krypton 1W model and 750mW+ model (839mW)
Wicked Lasers S3 Spyder Arctic G1 (825mW) and Arctic G2 (805mW) SmartSwitch Technology V1 & V2 Models w/Expanded Optic Kits
Jayrob 18650 w/MicroBoost & CU Heatsink A140 Diode 900mW, 295mW Pen by Pontiacg5
Rifle v2 Full 1.2W,
Rifle v2 Full 500mW, Rifle v2 Full 300mW & Cyber 445 1.2W all focusable w/Full Lens Kits

Coherent's Newest High Performance LabMax-TOP Laser Power/Energy Meter Accuracy 1.0%, Power Resolution 0.00001 Statistical Analysis: Min, Max, Mean, Range, Std Dev, Energy Dose, & Stability; Trend Charting, Tuning, Beam Stability Analysis, Extra Large Positional Display (112mm x 78mm) and Data Logging to a USB Flash Drive Directly on the Meter or PC w/ LabView Software.

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Chargers: Pila IBC (Swiss Designed & Engineered) the Gold Standard (UL). Xtar SP2 & VP1, Soshine SC-S1max V3 EagleTac & KeepPower 18650 3400mAh AA/AAA La Crosse BC1000 Maha MH-C9000 Eneloops
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Old 02-11-2012, 03:02 PM #27
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Default Re: How much do good batteries matter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenner View Post
Yes, they tested them years ago.

We are talking about chargers in 2012.

Since then, Soshine upgraded to Ver 03, and Xtar to Ver. 02

Many problems are reported with Pila charger , working with new high capacity batteries. On CPF as well.

Pila is not to blame . Why?

Pila clearly said : Our charger is to be used with Pila batteries . They probably know why.

Pila is very good charger - YES. Price of more than 50 USD - big NO.

If you go CC/CV way - features - Hobby chargers will eat Pila for breakfast


Cheers
You had me wondering when you said this is 2012, I thought maybe they just released a model I haven't read about. So I had some time this morning and went a searching and very quickly found out the Xtar you are referring to came out in 2011 not 2012. So I had already seen and read about that one....Nothing new here.

"The charge curve looks like a CC/CV charger, and it stops at a rather high charge current. This is not a real problem because the charger measures the voltage with charge current turned off, this means that the charging is not a real CC/CV charging"

"the termination is not according to manufacturer"


Obliviously this being 2012 has nothing to do with this; I'll still stick with Pila.....A Big YES
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Optotronics RPL-500 & RPL-450 Melles Griot Beam Expanders 3x, 10x, 20x, Zoom 2.5x-10x
Nova Endeavor Series Laser - Average: 305.4mW Peak: 329.8mW
Nova Lasers X125, X150 & X175, DL100, BFGLaser 125mW

A-Laser Model AD66Y0PGD 660nm 200mW
DX-200 660nm & 532nm, Leadlights & numerous 5mw-100mW 532mn
IgorT (6x) 209mW & (PHR) 140mW, Kryton 155mW, Daguin 165mW
Wicked Lasers S3 Spyder Krypton 1W model and 750mW+ model (839mW)
Wicked Lasers S3 Spyder Arctic G1 (825mW) and Arctic G2 (805mW) SmartSwitch Technology V1 & V2 Models w/Expanded Optic Kits
Jayrob 18650 w/MicroBoost & CU Heatsink A140 Diode 900mW, 295mW Pen by Pontiacg5
Rifle v2 Full 1.2W,
Rifle v2 Full 500mW, Rifle v2 Full 300mW & Cyber 445 1.2W all focusable w/Full Lens Kits

Coherent's Newest High Performance LabMax-TOP Laser Power/Energy Meter Accuracy 1.0%, Power Resolution 0.00001 Statistical Analysis: Min, Max, Mean, Range, Std Dev, Energy Dose, & Stability; Trend Charting, Tuning, Beam Stability Analysis, Extra Large Positional Display (112mm x 78mm) and Data Logging to a USB Flash Drive Directly on the Meter or PC w/ LabView Software.

D4thing LPM (3W), Andover LPM-1, Optic kits, and Certified Safety Glasses for Green, Red & Blue Lasers.
Chargers: Pila IBC (Swiss Designed & Engineered) the Gold Standard (UL). Xtar SP2 & VP1, Soshine SC-S1max V3 EagleTac & KeepPower 18650 3400mAh AA/AAA La Crosse BC1000 Maha MH-C9000 Eneloops
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Old 02-11-2012, 06:11 PM #28
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Default Re: How much do good batteries matter?

I do not know what link do you have , but this is review of Xtar WP2 II

http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review%20Charger%20Xtar%20WP2%20II%20UK.html


Preliminary Discussion
I like this new WP2-II charger – it is a definite upgrade from the original WP2.*
One obvious new feature is the dual 1A/0.5A charging switch. You can now supply the most appropriate current for different capacity cells.
But an even more important distinction is the much lower charging rate at the time of termination (i.e. <80 mA in my tests above). This is much safer for lower-capacity cells, which suggests to me you should be good to use just about anything in this charger.*
At the end of the day, the 1A current is best for 18650, 17670, and 18500. I would recommend 0.5A for 14670, 14500, and 16340 (RCR). Not sure if I wouldn't want to run 10440 in the charger, but it may be ok at the 0.5A level.*
The USB output charge is an interesting option. As a general rule, I am always a little wary of draining one Li-ion cell to charge another, but it seemed to work well in my testing. A nice option to have, it you run out of juice on your cell phone without AC power handy (but a supply of Li-ion cells on hand).
While the intermittent current drops to check voltage may seem unusual, all the other characteristics of this charger seem very good. For the price, I don't think you could do much better out there at the moment.
----

Review here



Guy asked for advice , and I provide mine.


Again HOBBY charger will eat Pila for breakfast.


Xtar WP2 II , and Soshine SC-S2 Ver. 03 - EXCELLENT chargers, and 50% faster than 50 bucks Pila.
Price range from 14-20 USD is just about right for good li-ion charger.
Especially if you are going to use it with top brand Li-ion batteries.


If somebody wants to pay 50 USD and more for 2 charging slot charger it is fine with me. Pila is excellent charger no doubt about that, but 50 bucks

And as previous poster said sometime it just happens that Pila have "some" problems like every other manufacturer, the ONLY problem - PRICE is not the same.

This is NOT a competition. Don't get it too personally.

Just give your advice to people who will appreciate it.

Peace


Last edited by Brenner; 02-11-2012 at 06:44 PM.
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Old 02-11-2012, 06:49 PM #29
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Default Re: How much do good batteries matter?

It's All Good......some people like Beer .....while others drink Fine Wine.
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Old 02-12-2012, 01:22 PM #30
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Default Re: How much do good batteries matter?

I absolutely agree. Coming from Europe, we certainly know who drinks beer, and who Fine wine.

I'll stick with folks who drink beer


Cheers
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Old 02-12-2012, 01:30 PM #31
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Default Re: How much do good batteries matter?

What do you like better Xtar or Soshine? and briefly why.....can't find much on the soshine.
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Nova Endeavor Series Laser - Average: 305.4mW Peak: 329.8mW
Nova Lasers X125, X150 & X175, DL100, BFGLaser 125mW

A-Laser Model AD66Y0PGD 660nm 200mW
DX-200 660nm & 532nm, Leadlights & numerous 5mw-100mW 532mn
IgorT (6x) 209mW & (PHR) 140mW, Kryton 155mW, Daguin 165mW
Wicked Lasers S3 Spyder Krypton 1W model and 750mW+ model (839mW)
Wicked Lasers S3 Spyder Arctic G1 (825mW) and Arctic G2 (805mW) SmartSwitch Technology V1 & V2 Models w/Expanded Optic Kits
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Coherent's Newest High Performance LabMax-TOP Laser Power/Energy Meter Accuracy 1.0%, Power Resolution 0.00001 Statistical Analysis: Min, Max, Mean, Range, Std Dev, Energy Dose, & Stability; Trend Charting, Tuning, Beam Stability Analysis, Extra Large Positional Display (112mm x 78mm) and Data Logging to a USB Flash Drive Directly on the Meter or PC w/ LabView Software.

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Chargers: Pila IBC (Swiss Designed & Engineered) the Gold Standard (UL). Xtar SP2 & VP1, Soshine SC-S1max V3 EagleTac & KeepPower 18650 3400mAh AA/AAA La Crosse BC1000 Maha MH-C9000 Eneloops
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Old 02-16-2012, 02:13 AM #32
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Default Re: How much do good batteries matter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by electron View Post
What do you like better Xtar or Soshine? and briefly why.....can't find much on the soshine.
This guy did a review on the Soshine:

Soshine SC-S2, Li-Ion Charger..

Ebay has it with 2 Ultrafire 3,000's for $38.80 or $40.00 bid with 2 Soshine protected 2,800 mAh batteries.
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