Laser pointer discussion. Read/write reviews of laser pointers and laser pointer companies. Learn about all types of laser pointers and lasers





Welcome to Laser Pointer Forums! If you are looking for a laser pointer or want to compare different laser pointer companies, you may want to check out the LPF Laser Pointer Company Database. The link will open in a new window for your convenience.








Green Laser Pointers by Category Blue Laser Pointers by Category Red Laser Pointers by Category
Yellow Laser Pointers by Category Violet Laser Pointers by Category Orange Laser Pointers by Category
Top Laser Pointers by Power - 1 Watt+ Top Laser Pointers by Power - 500mW+ Top Laser Pointers by Power - 250mW+
Laser Pointer Database High Power Laser Pointers Laser Pointer Diodes
Laser Technology Laser Pointer Parts Lasers by Wavelength
Top 10 Laser Pointer Companies Laser Pointer Company Database Visible Beam Laser Pointers


One laser store meets all your needs

























Go Back   Laser Pointer Forums - Discuss Laser Pointers > Lasers > Drivers, Test-load, Power Supply, & Batteries



LPF List of Laser Pointer Companies (link opens new window)



Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-28-2012, 01:56 AM #497
AnthoT's Avatar
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,137
Rep Power: 380
AnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond repute
AnthoT AnthoT is offline
Class 3R Laser
AnthoT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,137
Rep Power: 380
AnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: FREE DIY open source BOOST driver!!! Tested & working!!

I think if there is any part to be upgraded due to thermal properties it should be the ic (like RHD said get the one with the exposed GND pad for heatsinking) and get larger resistors, capacitors don't get hot usually but if its close to a hot component i can sort of understand why you'd want one capable of high heat.


__________________
FTLasers
AnthoT is offline   Reply With Quote







LPF List of Laser Pointer Companies (link opens new window)







Old 04-28-2012, 02:08 AM #498
tsteele93's Avatar
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: South Cackalackey, USA
Posts: 2,065
Rep Power: 321
tsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond repute
tsteele93 tsteele93 is offline
Class 3R Laser
tsteele93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: South Cackalackey, USA
Posts: 2,065
Rep Power: 321
tsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: FREE DIY open source BOOST driver!!! Tested & working!!

We spend a lot of time and effort trying to heat sink everything, including the drivers. It seems very logical to choose components that can handle higher temps to begin with.

I'm not sure that I am up for a google search to show that a component rated at 85C will have a shorter lifespan near that temp than a component rated at 125C that is running near 85C. I think it is pretty certain that would be the case though.

I would put the effort in if I were trying to convince others to buy these parts, but I'm not. I'm choosing them for myself because I believe that it is so.

I am not an E.E. but I do have a (long unused and lots forgotten) Engineering Degree and everything I do remember leads me to believe that this is not snake oil. There is no way they are getting more money to say the parts are rated at 125C vs 85C without it making a difference in the right application. The buyers of these chips are too savvy for that - especially the automotive certified stuff.

That is an area where I do have a lot of recent experience and I can assure you that heat is the enemy in everything we do, and lowering heat or raising the heat tolerance in materials is a huge improvement in lifespan of parts.

It also goes for computers. Most of our heatsinking materials (except perhaps custom diode sinks) are based on videogame or PC chips being heatsinked. The more you heat sink PC chips, the longer they will live unless they weren't being driven near the limit at all

EVERYTHING we do seems aimed at overdriving every link in the chain. We overdrive the diodes HARD. We overdrive the drivers and start putting heat sinks on them in the hopes they will live. Even the boost drivers got some heat sinking when Moh was testing them.

If you have a component that doesn't even go into thermal protection for another 40C then you are very likely to increase duty cycles, and perhaps not even reach 125C to need thermal protection.

It just seems like common sense to me.

Snake oil is when you are selling a placebo (or worse) and claiming it does something it really doesn't. In this case, I am buying something that almost certainly does what it claims to do - and that is tolerate heat better. Whether I need that tolerance is up to debate, but I don't think the chip makers are just making this stuff up. I believe those chips can handle higher temps without failing and I think that is worth paying for personally.




Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthoT View Post
I think if there is any part to be upgraded due to thermal properties it should be the ic (like RHD said get the one with the exposed GND pad for heatsinking) and get larger resistors, capacitors don't get hot usually but if its close to a hot component i can sort of understand why you'd want one capable of high heat.
That was the first thing that I did AnthoT - and RHD rode my tail about that too!

http://www.newark.com/national-semic...?ref=lookahead
__________________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Tom Steele

Why I'm Here

405nm tsteele93 12x build @ 545mW

445nm Survival Laser @ 1.25W - GIFTED
445nm Stainless Steel Monster with H140 diode @1.62A - 2.15W!
450nm rhd single mode @ 190mW

532nm O-like 50 mW pen from Cajun Lasers - small dot, tight beam!
532nm O-like Crown, rated @ 400mW, metered @ ~450mW with AW battery!
532nm O-like Crown rated @ 500mW, not yet tested
532nm RPL-165 @ 204mW
532nm RPL-375 @ 427mW

635nm rhd Lipstick Tube @ ~485+ mW
638nm Fat Boy @ 825mW - custom build

650nm Bolly BL-8006 @ 319mW

Laser Safety and Eye Injury

Last edited by tsteele93; 04-28-2012 at 02:19 AM. Reason: You can't toast with semi-colons
tsteele93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 02:47 AM #499
benmwv's Avatar
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: wv
Posts: 1,389
Rep Power: 152
benmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond repute
benmwv benmwv is offline
Class 3R Laser
benmwv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: wv
Posts: 1,389
Rep Power: 152
benmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: FREE DIY open source BOOST driver!!! Tested & working!!

I have to agree with rhd here. Higher temp rated caps is bs. Not saying they can't stand the higher temp, just that you don't need them too.

I also thought the "automotive grade" lm3410 was pointless too (it's the exact same chip...) but I think this about the caps is a bit ridiculous.

Not trying to be harsh here, just saying my opinion This driver is open to all, feel free to make it with whatever parts you want
benmwv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 06:02 AM #500
foulmist's Avatar
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Smolyan, Bulgaria
Posts: 1,076
Rep Power: 107
foulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Skype™ to foulmist
foulmist foulmist is offline
Class 3R Laser
foulmist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Smolyan, Bulgaria
Posts: 1,076
Rep Power: 107
foulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Skype™ to foulmist
Default Re: FREE DIY open source BOOST driver!!! Tested & working!!

1206 caps can support higher voltages with higher capacitance at lower price .. I guess that's the only real difference
foulmist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 11:20 AM #501
lasersbee's Avatar
Class 4 Laser
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 15,731
Rep Power: 41315
lasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond repute
lasersbee lasersbee is online now
Class 4 Laser
lasersbee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 15,731
Rep Power: 41315
lasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: FREE DIY open source BOOST driver!!! Tested & working!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsteele93 View Post
We spend a lot of time and effort trying to heat sink everything, including the drivers. It seems very logical to choose components that can handle higher temps to begin with.

There is no way they are getting more money to say the parts are rated at 125C vs 85C without it making a difference in the right application. The buyers of these chips are too savvy for that - especially the automotive certified stuff.

That is an area where I do have a lot of recent experience and I can assure you that heat is the enemy in everything we do, and lowering heat or raising the heat tolerance in materials is a huge improvement in lifespan of parts.

EVERYTHING we do seems aimed at overdriving every link in the chain. We overdrive the diodes HARD. We overdrive the drivers and start putting heat sinks on them in the hopes they will live. Even the boost drivers got some heat sinking when Moh was testing them.

It just seems like common sense to me.

LM3410XQMF/NOPB - NATIONAL SEMICONDUCTOR - IC, LED DRVR, 5-SOT-23 | Newark
I agree with you on your part choice logic...
We ALWAYS try to over design for the few pennies it costs more
to add to any possible increase in MTTF.

If you are running a circuit on 12 VDC we always use electronic
components that can handle at least twice that voltage for only
a few pennies more.

Of course 12Volt components could be used but at a decreased
MTTF. (Mean Time To Failure).


Jerry

You can contact us at any time on our Website: J.BAUER Electronics
__________________

J.BAUER Electronics Home Page

LaserBee Laser Power Meter Products meet your needs
at affordable Prices:
See them all here on LPF

LaserBee Power Meter products ALWAYS in Stock
and ready to ship

Also available on eBay:Check availability here..

Subsidary: Pharma Electronic Solutions


This banner is available to and can be copied/used FREE by any LaserBee owner

Last edited by lasersbee; 07-01-2012 at 02:18 PM.
lasersbee is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 12:07 PM #502
rhd's Avatar
rhd rhd is offline
Class 4 Laser
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,491
Rep Power: 1392
rhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond repute
rhd rhd is offline
Class 4 Laser
rhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,491
Rep Power: 1392
rhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: FREE DIY open source BOOST driver!!! Tested & working!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lasersbee View Post
If you are running a circuit on 12 VDC we always use electronic
components that can handle at least twice that voltage for only
a few pennies more.
See, I think that's ^ logical.

If you're choosing caps, I'd never go for a 10V cap on a boost driver that was boosting to say 6.5V. Even though it would seem to be fine, I'd go for a 16V cap instead.

But that's because the voltage of the cap is an actual meaningful measurement of that cap's performance in our application. Some supposed temperature rating is not.
__________________
CURRENT WAVELENGTHS:
405|441|450|467|473|495|505|520|532|556|PGLRG|589|594|632|638|660


SAFETY & IMPORTANT READING (threads authored and contributed to by various members of LPF):
- Federal Aviation Administration - Laser Safety Initiative (link)
- Info release from Laserglow - Default Canadian restrictions on portable lasers (link)
- The Necessity of Safety Goggles (link)

rhd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 04:48 PM #503
tsteele93's Avatar
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: South Cackalackey, USA
Posts: 2,065
Rep Power: 321
tsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond repute
tsteele93 tsteele93 is offline
Class 3R Laser
tsteele93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: South Cackalackey, USA
Posts: 2,065
Rep Power: 321
tsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: FREE DIY open source BOOST driver!!! Tested & working!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhd View Post
If you really wanted to improve the "quality" of your driver, you'd take the design, fork it, double the width of each important trace, swap in the TSSOP version of the IC, use a larger package Shottky, a larger package set resistor, and get new PCBs make.

While only incurring perhaps a 25% additional size penalty, that might actually improve the quality of your driver.

But this business of wasting time micromanaging capacitor "temperature ratings" is not.
One other thing, I just wanted to point out. That is an interesting idea and if we could keep it within size limits that would still work well for most lasers that would be great.

But in this discussion there is a practical limitation. - I have 100 of Moh's R9 version boards.

That is what I am working with and that is what I am trying to find the highest reliability (within reason on price) parts to use.

I don't want to redesign the driver - I just am trying to understand what I can do to improve lifespan/performance/reliability on that board.

Some things are easy. A resistor has an ohm value that it needs to be, and then all I have to do is find one that FITS (looks like 0805 is my world on the R9 board - except the 100kohm which is 0603?) and then I can pick the highest quality version of that resistor that I want to pay for...

But when it comes to some things, like schottkys and mosfets and lm3410's, I'm not as practically familiar with these components. I studied the basics 25 years ago in college and then ignored my degree and went into a totally different field.

The last time I was picking out resistors, they were round things with colored bands around them and I was proud that I had memorized the colors and could tell you the resistance by looking at the color codes. It is a whole new world to someone who had a 65-in-one electronic kit when they were 12 years old (and that was the mac-daddy version - SIXTY FIVE!) compared to now when someone decided that K meant 10% (wtf - k always means thousand!!1) and R is a zero or decimal point or something.

I don't even know what the important specs are on the schottky and the MOSFET. I'd like to be able to go search for them, but unlike a 100kohm resistor, which I can plug 100kohm resisitor 0805 thick film sense resistor and then choose the one that looks most robust, I don't even know which data point is important for the schottky and the mosfet to work from.

Anyway, you get my point. I'm relearning things I forgot and it is compounded by the fact that everything is different so I have to learn naming and packaging, etc.

My long-winded point is this...

I'm not insulting RHD and Ben. I'm saying, "Hey, I like this driver you came up with - it is really awesome." I'm an old fart with a little more money to waste/spend on my builds and I'd like to know if certain parts will work on this board because I'd like build it in a "zero defect/high temp" automotive quality spec fashion.

Could you please help me understand what I have to use and let me know what specs are optional?

Again, I am not preaching that anyone else needs to do this. I disagree with Ben that the LM3410Q version is the "same thing" as the others because you can't convince me that the automotive industry is going to pay more for something that isn't different.

I am aware that caps aren't heating up very high themselves, but they are soldered to a board that IS potentially getting very hot in a small 1 square inch or less enclosed space with a hot driver attached to them on one side and a constantly increasing temperature heat sink from a high powered laser diode on the other side. Until someone has good measurements on the temperature of that space, I don't see how it is a bad idea to use a cap that can operate in 125C conditions IF I can find one that doesn't cost $6 each and IF I can find one that fits.

Will it make any difference in the build? I have no idea, but I actually got them ON SALE from Newark for cheaper than DigiKey or Mouser and Future Electronics doesn't have them in stock - so why does that matter?

Wouldn't it be ok just to say, "Hey Tom, you are wasting money on these higher priced parts and we wouldn't recommend that anyone on a budget waste their money on these parts - but YES that part will work." Or "NO, that part won't work - here is why."

That is all I am asking for...



tl;dr I'm not criticizing the design or parts choice that Ben and RHD made, I'm just looking for help on finding potentially higher temp, higher reliability parts that cost more for my builds and would like help in knowing whether a particular component will work in place of another in the schematic.
__________________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Tom Steele

Why I'm Here

405nm tsteele93 12x build @ 545mW

445nm Survival Laser @ 1.25W - GIFTED
445nm Stainless Steel Monster with H140 diode @1.62A - 2.15W!
450nm rhd single mode @ 190mW

532nm O-like 50 mW pen from Cajun Lasers - small dot, tight beam!
532nm O-like Crown, rated @ 400mW, metered @ ~450mW with AW battery!
532nm O-like Crown rated @ 500mW, not yet tested
532nm RPL-165 @ 204mW
532nm RPL-375 @ 427mW

635nm rhd Lipstick Tube @ ~485+ mW
638nm Fat Boy @ 825mW - custom build

650nm Bolly BL-8006 @ 319mW

Laser Safety and Eye Injury

Last edited by tsteele93; 04-28-2012 at 05:56 PM. Reason: Ionic bonding
tsteele93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 05:29 PM #504
tsteele93's Avatar
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: South Cackalackey, USA
Posts: 2,065
Rep Power: 321
tsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond repute
tsteele93 tsteele93 is offline
Class 3R Laser
tsteele93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: South Cackalackey, USA
Posts: 2,065
Rep Power: 321
tsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: FREE DIY open source BOOST driver!!! Tested & working!!

Double post on purpose here - just want to clarify for anyone looking in:

Here are some of the grades available in descending order...


ESCC 3009 (Space Quality)

IECQ-CECC (Aviation)

AEC-Q100/Q200 (Automotive)

MIL Grade (Almost meaningless)

Standard Components

With the automotive grade, you are able to get components tested at some pretty extreme humidity and temps (grade 0 is up to 150C and more commonly grade 1 is up to 125C) at prices that aren't astronomical like aviation and space grade components.

Definition of Part Operating Temperature Grade

Grade 0: -40C to +150C ambient operating temperature range
Grade 1: -40C to +125C ambient operating temperature range
Grade 2: -40C to +105C ambient operating temperature range
Grade 3: -40C to +85C ambient operating temperature range
Grade 4: 0C to +70C ambient operating temperature range

That is my reasoning. Why put 85C standard components in a hotbox that we are already heat-sinking as much as possible?

AT THE VERY LEAST, it seems like you would get better duty cycles.

You can read all about AEC-Q100/Q200 here if you like - AEC Documents

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhd View Post

But that's because the voltage of the cap is an actual meaningful measurement of that cap's performance in our application. Some supposed temperature rating is not.
I really don't follow you here. The AEC-Q100/Q200 specs are put together by Autoliv, Continental, Delphi, Johnson Controls, TRW Automotive, and Visteon.

http://www.aecouncil.com/Documents/AEC_Q100-008A.pdf

3.2 General ELFR Procedure

"The parts shall be tested per the High-Temperature Operating Life (HTOL) requirements in JESD22-A108 with the following special condition. The ambient test temperature and duration shall be per the applicable operating temperature grade as follows:

Grade 0: 48 hours at 150C or 24 hours at 175C
Grade 1: 48 hours at 125C or 24 hours at 150C
Grade 2: 48 hours at 105C or 24 hours at 125C
Grade 3: 48 hours at 85C or 24 hours at 105C
Grade 4: 48 hours at 70C or 24 hours at 90C

3.3 Acceptance Criteria

The parts shall be electrically tested within 48 hours after completion of high temperature exposure.

Testing shall be at room temperature followed by high temperature. Failures during this test are not acceptable and indicate that corrective action must be taken. The supplier shall notify all interested users of this non-conforming condition and the corrective action that has / will take place. The user(s) must approve of the corrective action for the part to be qualified."



You make it sound like these temperature numbers are some "made up" marketing scam numbers, but these companies take them very seriously in the design of automotive parts where they do not want to be on the hook for a huge recall of tail-lights because an IC couldn't handle the environment.

BEST OF ALL, we are talking about circuits that are VERY SIMILAR to what we are doing - a lot of the parts we are using are being used in the automotive industry to drive LED headlights and other LED lighting and they are using very similar circuits and probably some of the very same parts as we are using in lasers.
__________________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Tom Steele

Why I'm Here

405nm tsteele93 12x build @ 545mW

445nm Survival Laser @ 1.25W - GIFTED
445nm Stainless Steel Monster with H140 diode @1.62A - 2.15W!
450nm rhd single mode @ 190mW

532nm O-like 50 mW pen from Cajun Lasers - small dot, tight beam!
532nm O-like Crown, rated @ 400mW, metered @ ~450mW with AW battery!
532nm O-like Crown rated @ 500mW, not yet tested
532nm RPL-165 @ 204mW
532nm RPL-375 @ 427mW

635nm rhd Lipstick Tube @ ~485+ mW
638nm Fat Boy @ 825mW - custom build

650nm Bolly BL-8006 @ 319mW

Laser Safety and Eye Injury

Last edited by tsteele93; 04-28-2012 at 06:14 PM.
tsteele93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 06:17 PM #505
rhd's Avatar
rhd rhd is offline
Class 4 Laser
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,491
Rep Power: 1392
rhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond repute
rhd rhd is offline
Class 4 Laser
rhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,491
Rep Power: 1392
rhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond reputerhd has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: FREE DIY open source BOOST driver!!! Tested & working!!

So my take on this is that we're all missing a bit of perspective (seriously, all of us).

None of this driver stuff is really decided on the basis "having more [or less] money to waste/spend" on our builds. At the stage where we're reflowing our own boards for $3 or $4 bucks, I really don't think cost is an issue for anyone. I can't imagine that anyone putting together a build that they value at few hundred dollars would actually care about the plus or minus of a few bucks on driver components.

In the era of $60 dollar dual flex-drive setups, then sure, "cutting some corners" by avoiding a flex in favour of something cheaper, might had been logical (heck, that's why this boost driver was born). But when you're talking about $8.00 vs $8.50 for a dual driver setup, I really don't think that anyone is making serious decisions based on that 50 cents.

People make decisions based on what is reasonably likely to have an actual impact on their build. Since we're talking about caps, this has implied a few changes for me:

- I made the switch to 1206 instead of 805 so that they'd be less tall and thus less likely to short from contact with the heatsink.
- I often go with 22uF instead of 10uF.
- I also try to at least double if not triple the voltage I actually expect to need.

Those are decisions that in my mind are worth paying attention to. Not because of their relative expense or in-expense, but rather because they have some rational potential to actually matter.

- But I simply do not believe that some capacitor with a "125 degree C" rating is going to perform better for our purposes, in any way, than a cap rated for "85 degrees C". We reflow these at what, around 215 degrees C?
__________________
CURRENT WAVELENGTHS:
405|441|450|467|473|495|505|520|532|556|PGLRG|589|594|632|638|660


SAFETY & IMPORTANT READING (threads authored and contributed to by various members of LPF):
- Federal Aviation Administration - Laser Safety Initiative (link)
- Info release from Laserglow - Default Canadian restrictions on portable lasers (link)
- The Necessity of Safety Goggles (link)


Last edited by rhd; 04-28-2012 at 06:18 PM.
rhd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 07:08 PM #506
benmwv's Avatar
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: wv
Posts: 1,389
Rep Power: 152
benmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond repute
benmwv benmwv is offline
Class 3R Laser
benmwv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: wv
Posts: 1,389
Rep Power: 152
benmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: FREE DIY open source BOOST driver!!! Tested & working!!

Hey, tsteele

I am nearly 100% sure that all the lm3410s are the same. The "automotive grade" ones are randomly tested to higher temps/conditions than the others, but the chip is the same. They don't actually design a new version of the exact same chip that can hold up to higher temps, they just test them higher. So maybe a few out of every 10,000 (or whatever) may fail but you aren't actually getting a "better" chip. The automotive grade really doesn't matter unless you are buying in huge quantities and want to makes sure less than 1 per 100,000 fails instead of 10 per 100,000 (again, pulled those figures out of my ... but you get the idea)

Also about the caps, like rhd said, my first prototypes of this driver were using 22uf 0805 caps (expensive!) but rhd tried 10uf and they worked fine. The first versions cost closer to $10 each, but we wanted it to be as cheap as possible So if you wanted to upgrade something about them that would be a good place to start.
benmwv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 07:16 PM #507
tsteele93's Avatar
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: South Cackalackey, USA
Posts: 2,065
Rep Power: 321
tsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond repute
tsteele93 tsteele93 is offline
Class 3R Laser
tsteele93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: South Cackalackey, USA
Posts: 2,065
Rep Power: 321
tsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: FREE DIY open source BOOST driver!!! Tested & working!!

Thanks guys, that is really what I'm trying to get at - what CAN be changed if we want to make them a bit more reliable. I can see not going with a $10 capacitor, and I have no idea whether the LM3410's are better, different or whatever - I just ended up being able to get the Q versions cheaper at Newark than the regular versions at Digikey or mouser. So why not I figured?

I guess one out of 100,000 of my builds will fail vs one out of 10,000 of yours. (LOL! - I'll let you know when I get to 10,000!)

Anyway, that is really helpful to me. I did not realize that the capacitance was an adjustable unit (upward) so that is interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RHD
But I simply do not believe that some capacitor with a "125 degree C" rating is going to perform better for our purposes, in any way, than a cap rated for "85 degrees C". We reflow these at what, around 215 degrees C?
I'm under the impression that is long-term usage without breaking down, not short-term soldering.

You may be correct, but I still feel like there is enough heat in the pill area that a higher temp rated part is worth pursuing if it is economically feasible. The best part, is other than money - there is no downside I can see to doing it. There are always tradeoffs in decisions you make - but in this case it is a relatively small amount of money (on most of the components I've seen) and an IC that is rated to run for long periods of time at very high temps. Why not?
__________________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Tom Steele

Why I'm Here

405nm tsteele93 12x build @ 545mW

445nm Survival Laser @ 1.25W - GIFTED
445nm Stainless Steel Monster with H140 diode @1.62A - 2.15W!
450nm rhd single mode @ 190mW

532nm O-like 50 mW pen from Cajun Lasers - small dot, tight beam!
532nm O-like Crown, rated @ 400mW, metered @ ~450mW with AW battery!
532nm O-like Crown rated @ 500mW, not yet tested
532nm RPL-165 @ 204mW
532nm RPL-375 @ 427mW

635nm rhd Lipstick Tube @ ~485+ mW
638nm Fat Boy @ 825mW - custom build

650nm Bolly BL-8006 @ 319mW

Laser Safety and Eye Injury
tsteele93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 07:17 PM #508
foulmist's Avatar
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Smolyan, Bulgaria
Posts: 1,076
Rep Power: 107
foulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Skype™ to foulmist
foulmist foulmist is offline
Class 3R Laser
foulmist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Smolyan, Bulgaria
Posts: 1,076
Rep Power: 107
foulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond reputefoulmist has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Skype™ to foulmist
Default Re: FREE DIY open source BOOST driver!!! Tested & working!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by benmwv View Post
22uf 0805 caps (expensive!)
like I said

1206 caps can support higher voltages with higher capacitance at lower price

I use 0805 22uF in my drive and they are hell lota more expensive than regular 10uF or 1206 at 22uF

Last edited by foulmist; 04-28-2012 at 07:18 PM.
foulmist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 07:31 PM #509
benmwv's Avatar
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: wv
Posts: 1,389
Rep Power: 152
benmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond repute
benmwv benmwv is offline
Class 3R Laser
benmwv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: wv
Posts: 1,389
Rep Power: 152
benmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond reputebenmwv has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: FREE DIY open source BOOST driver!!! Tested & working!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by foulmist View Post
like I said

1206 caps can support higher voltages with higher capacitance at lower price

I use 0805 22uF in my drive and they are hell lota more expensive than regular 10uF or 1206 at 22uF
Yeah, those 0805 22uf are really expensive. I'm wanting to say they are close $1 each on digikey?

Edit: 70-77 cents each!

Last edited by benmwv; 04-28-2012 at 07:33 PM.
benmwv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 08:29 PM #510
tsteele93's Avatar
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: South Cackalackey, USA
Posts: 2,065
Rep Power: 321
tsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond repute
tsteele93 tsteele93 is offline
Class 3R Laser
tsteele93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: South Cackalackey, USA
Posts: 2,065
Rep Power: 321
tsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: FREE DIY open source BOOST driver!!! Tested & working!!

Would these caps work and what would be the downside?

TMK212BBJ106KG-T Taiyo Yuden Multilayer Ceramic Capacitors (MLCC) - SMD/SMT 0805 25V X5R 10uF 10% $0.20 USD at 100count

TDK Multilayer Ceramic Capacitors (MLCC) - SMD/SMT 22uF 10% 16Volts 0805 (2012 metric) $0.46 USD at 100count

Quote:
Originally Posted by foulmist View Post
like I said

1206 caps can support higher voltages with higher capacitance at lower price

I use 0805 22uF in my drive and they are hell lota more expensive than regular 10uF or 1206 at 22uF
Tom,

Why not use 1206 on your driver?
__________________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Tom Steele

Why I'm Here

405nm tsteele93 12x build @ 545mW

445nm Survival Laser @ 1.25W - GIFTED
445nm Stainless Steel Monster with H140 diode @1.62A - 2.15W!
450nm rhd single mode @ 190mW

532nm O-like 50 mW pen from Cajun Lasers - small dot, tight beam!
532nm O-like Crown, rated @ 400mW, metered @ ~450mW with AW battery!
532nm O-like Crown rated @ 500mW, not yet tested
532nm RPL-165 @ 204mW
532nm RPL-375 @ 427mW

635nm rhd Lipstick Tube @ ~485+ mW
638nm Fat Boy @ 825mW - custom build

650nm Bolly BL-8006 @ 319mW

Laser Safety and Eye Injury

Last edited by tsteele93; 04-28-2012 at 08:42 PM.
tsteele93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2012, 06:49 PM #511
tsteele93's Avatar
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: South Cackalackey, USA
Posts: 2,065
Rep Power: 321
tsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond repute
tsteele93 tsteele93 is offline
Class 3R Laser
tsteele93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: South Cackalackey, USA
Posts: 2,065
Rep Power: 321
tsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond reputetsteele93 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: FREE DIY open source BOOST driver!!! Tested & working!!

Nobody?
__________________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Tom Steele

Why I'm Here

405nm tsteele93 12x build @ 545mW

445nm Survival Laser @ 1.25W - GIFTED
445nm Stainless Steel Monster with H140 diode @1.62A - 2.15W!
450nm rhd single mode @ 190mW

532nm O-like 50 mW pen from Cajun Lasers - small dot, tight beam!
532nm O-like Crown, rated @ 400mW, metered @ ~450mW with AW battery!
532nm O-like Crown rated @ 500mW, not yet tested
532nm RPL-165 @ 204mW
532nm RPL-375 @ 427mW

635nm rhd Lipstick Tube @ ~485+ mW
638nm Fat Boy @ 825mW - custom build

650nm Bolly BL-8006 @ 319mW

Laser Safety and Eye Injury
tsteele93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2012, 06:55 PM #512
AnthoT's Avatar
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,137
Rep Power: 380
AnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond repute
AnthoT AnthoT is offline
Class 3R Laser
AnthoT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,137
Rep Power: 380
AnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond reputeAnthoT has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: FREE DIY open source BOOST driver!!! Tested & working!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsteele93 View Post
Nobody?
Those will work fine
__________________
FTLasers
AnthoT is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
ben, benboost, boost, diy, driver, free, open, source





Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


LinkBacks (?)
LinkBack to this Thread: http://laserpointerforums.com/f67/free-diy-open-source-boost-driver-tested-working-71433.html
Posted By For Type Date
Untitled document This thread Refback 10-11-2016 05:02 PM
Laser PWM using Arduino This thread Refback 08-22-2015 02:23 PM
- 684 - Hobbi TV This thread Refback 11-14-2013 09:33 AM
- Page 684 - Hobbi TV This thread Refback 10-30-2013 12:21 AM
- Page 675 - Hobbi TV This thread Refback 10-13-2013 09:12 PM
- 675 - Hobbi TV This thread Refback 04-08-2013 06:48 PM
Untitled document This thread Refback 03-24-2013 05:56 PM
Laser Diode Driver for 405nm 445nm Diodes 1 25A | eBay This thread Refback 03-13-2013 08:24 PM
?????-???????? : lm2731.pcb This thread Refback 03-03-2013 08:10 AM
Untitled document This thread Refback 02-21-2013 10:42 PM
Untitled document This thread Refback 02-20-2013 12:31 PM
- 675 - Hobbi TV This thread Refback 10-08-2012 11:37 AM
?????-???????? : nf034g This thread Refback 10-01-2012 05:20 AM
Laser driver with 500mA current This thread Refback 09-03-2012 06:22 PM
FREE DIY open source BOOST driver!!! Tested & working!! - Page 19 - Laser Pointer Forums - Discuss Lasers & Laser Pointers This thread Refback 04-28-2012 01:41 AM
- 684 - Hobbi TV This thread Refback 03-19-2012 10:17 AM
- 676 - Hobbi TV This thread Refback 02-20-2012 07:36 AM










Loading








Green Laser Pointers by Category Blue Laser Pointers by Category Red Laser Pointers by Category
Yellow Laser Pointers by Category Violet Laser Pointers by Category Orange Laser Pointers by Category
Top Laser Pointers by Power - 1 Watt+ Top Laser Pointers by Power - 500mW+ Top Laser Pointers by Power - 250mW+
Laser Pointer Database High Power Laser Pointers Laser Pointer Diodes






Privacy Policy | Advertising Disclaimer | Terms of Use


 


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:00 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO
Privacy Policy | Advertising Disclaimer | Terms of Use
Copyright (C) 2017 Laser Pointer Forums, LLC