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Old 04-26-2011, 06:33 AM #1
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Default Contest (feeler): 2-months, to design a NEW community boost driver!

I'd love to put a feeler out there to spur on some innovation I want to initiate a contest, for the best working boost driver PCB design. However, there's a twist. The idea isn't just to encourage someone to build a driver that they could then sell or produce exclusively. Rather, my notion is that the contest be for the creation of an "open-source" public domain boost driver schematic and PCB layout. Here's my idea of the constraints within which this contest would run:

This is a "work in progress" and still a feeler. The rules below are just proposals, awaiting more feedback from members.

General requirements:

1) All submitted designs must be "donated" to the community's intellectual pool of knowledge. Meaning that everyone would then be free to (UPDATE TEXT) use, modify, create copies for strictly personal use, improve upon, iterate, collaborate on, and alter the design.

(INSERTION)
1.B) However, selling, manufacturing, distributing or producing via GB, essentially the same circuit (regardless of PCB layout differences) may only occur with the author's permission. While recognizing that this is not a strict legally enforceable principal, we request that all members of this forum encourage adherence with this provision. "Encouraging adherence with this provision" could include actions such as voicing disapproval, or refusing to purchase / support future drivers that fail to respect this provision.

(INSERTION)
1.C) The rule in 1.B is not meant to prevent anyone from creating improved drivers using similar components, as long as they are substantially different from the original driver circuit submitted here.

2) No blatent copying of an existing schematic or design. You can't take an O-Like circuit and reproduce it. You can't duplicate a Flexdrive. Etc. Even though the idea is to create an open driver design here, that doesn't mean that entries can disregard the fact that previous drivers weren't created under our open model. So, respect prior art.

3) Entries must be demonstrated to WORK, and include both a visual circuit diagram, and a usable PCB schematic in a popular format.

4) Two month time limit. IE, end of June deadline for all submissions.


Specific requirements:

A) Ability to run a 445nm at 1400mA from a single 18650 lithium ion.

B) Size constraints TBA (input guys?)


Prize Contributions (would be great to get as much offered as possible):

RHD: 1x 445nm A140 diode


Thoughts?
This is a feeler, not an actual contest, until we get some feedback from the community as to whether this is a good/bad/stupid idea, or whether it may need some tweaking to be a reasonable undertaking.


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Last edited by rhd; 04-30-2011 at 09:39 PM.
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Old 04-26-2011, 06:37 AM #2
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Default Re: Contest (feeler): 2-months, to design a NEW community boost driver!

Great idea! I have no knowledge on this stuff but I may be able to donate to the cause!
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Old 04-26-2011, 12:24 PM #3
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Default Re: Contest (feeler): 2-months, to design a NEW community boost driver!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhd View Post
I'd love to put a feeler out there to spur on some innovation I want to initiate a contest, for the best working boost driver PCB design. However, there's a twist. The idea isn't just to encourage someone to build a driver that they could then sell or produce exclusively. Rather, my notion is that the contest be for the creation of an "open-source" public domain boost driver schematic and PCB layout. Here's my idea of the constraints within which this contest would run:


General requirements:

1) All submitted designs must be "donated" to the community's intellectual pool of knowledge. Meaning that everyone would then be free to use, modify, create, sell, alter, manufacture, distribute, produce via GB, improve upon, iterate, collaborate on, etc etc etc, the designs from that point forward, however they see fit. IE, free open knowledge.

2) No blatent copying of an existing schematic or design. You can't take an O-Like circuit and reproduce it. You can't duplicate a Flexdrive. Etc. Even though the idea is to create an open driver design here, that doesn't mean that entries can disregard the fact that previous drivers weren't created under our open model. So, respect prior art.

3) Entries must be demonstrated to WORK, and include both a visual circuit diagram, and a usable PCB schematic in a popular format.

4) Two month time limit. IE, end of June deadline for all submissions.


Specific requirements:

A) Ability to run a 445nm at 1400mA from a single 18650 lithium ion.

B) Size constraints TBA (input guys?)


Prize Contributions (would be great to get as much offered as possible):

RHD: 1x 445nm A140 diode


Thoughts?
This is a feeler, not an actual contest, until we get some feedback from the community as to whether this is a good/bad/stupid idea, or whether it may need some tweaking to be a reasonable undertaking.
I see a problem here...............
You seem to contradict yourself...............

1) it is a Driver Design to be given to the Community..

2) you can Produce it Manufacture it and Sell it....

It seems you are looking for a FreeBee design to compete
with other Driver Sellers here....

Maybe I'll just wait for a design and go into production myself...
( Do you see the problem....)


Jerry
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Old 04-26-2011, 01:12 PM #4
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Default Re: Contest (feeler): 2-months, to design a NEW community boost driver!

As soon as the design is on the table, someone will send it to Korea to be mass produces and sold for a profit.

Peace,
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Old 04-26-2011, 01:35 PM #5
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Default Re: Contest (feeler): 2-months, to design a NEW community boost driver!

I've got the same dilemma on my plate. I've started work on an open-source LPM project, but I'm concerned about the issues raised in this thread.

Relevant for my project and this one:

On the one hand, it would raise the bar for the product (whatever it may be) in the community. The base level of product that a hobbyist could build would rise drastically, forcing people who want to commercialize to further excel and deliver at an even higher level.

On the other hand, someone with little to no knowledge who has access to fabrication can take the design, begin producing, and enter the market at a high level.

It's a tough dilemma that I too have been wrestling with.

That being said, I don't really have appreciable experience in driver design. I can, however, donate what is effectively permanent webhosting (on a real domain ) for any results that happen.

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Old 04-26-2011, 01:45 PM #6
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Default Re: Contest (feeler): 2-months, to design a NEW community boost driver!

Dave: That didn't happen with the DDL design.

LaserBee: That's not a contradiction, that's the point. If there is an open community driver schematic (like the DDL, but a boost), then there will be an awesome ability for the community to produce drivers consistently. No single person can take linux and sell it for $50, because someone else can put their version of it on a CD, and sell it closer to their $5 (or whatever) cost of doing so.

Similar concept here. It strikes me that what we're lacking is an initial design to build from. That's the gap I would envision filling. Of course, if that model isn't attractive to the designers, I suppose nobody will enter.

Finally, the idea of getting a bunch of members to contribute something valuable (a diode, a host, etc) was meant to make it such that this wasn't just a one-sided contribution by the driver designers to the community, but rather an actual community effort, with people who lack actual driver design abilities contributing something else of value to the cause, and leaving the designer not feeling like they have shouldered the bulk of the load for everyone elses benefit entirely.
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Old 04-26-2011, 02:14 PM #7
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Default Re: Contest (feeler): 2-months, to design a NEW community boost driver!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhd View Post
Dave: That didn't happen with the DDL design.
The world (and the forum) was a very different place then.

Peace,
dave
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Old 04-26-2011, 02:27 PM #8
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Default Re: Contest (feeler): 2-months, to design a NEW community boost driver!

Uhm, i see basically another possible problem .....

Quote:
2) No blatent copying of an existing schematic or design. You can't take an O-Like circuit and reproduce it. You can't duplicate a Flexdrive. Etc. Even though the idea is to create an open driver design here, that doesn't mean that entries can disregard the fact that previous drivers weren't created under our open model. So, respect prior art.
I can share my schematics, i have no problems with this ..... but, honestly, they are not my "inventions", i just took the datasheets, tried the suggested circuits, and modified them til they worked as i wanted (when it was possible) ..... so, how i can say that these circuits are "my original work", when i based them on publicly available design from manufacturers, that are already available everywhere on the datasheets ?

And, if you think better about this, as far as you don't design your own IC, there's not too much possibility that you can build something "original and not copied" from datasheets suggestions, cause none can know how an IC work, if not basing his work on these datasheets and suggested applications principles.

I agree about "don't blindly copy a flexdrive or a commercial module" principle, but, realistically, there's not too much other ..... as example, i made my own tests with 63010, times ago (no, NOT copying flexdrive), and ended with a circuit that is, basically, a flexdrive clone, just cause there's no other system for reach this particular results with this particular chip ..... same with the AX2002, A710, PAM2803, QX5241, and so much others that i lost the count ..... so, also NOT COPYING an existing drive, and designing your own one 100% from datasheet and samples, you have a good 50% of possibility to end with a circuit that someone have already made and commercialized ..... how to manage this ?
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Old 04-26-2011, 03:11 PM #9
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Default Re: Contest (feeler): 2-months, to design a NEW community boost driver!

HIMNL9:
You make a good point. Truthfully, that requirement was in there not so much to create a hurdle for people who base their designs off existing examples and sample circuits, and more so to make sure that we would create any drama or tension here on the guard. Similarly, I also didn't want to personally feel like I had instigated anything negative.

Having said that, it appears that public sentiment is against this initiative. While I think THAT (ie, the lack of enthusiasm for an unconventional approach) is the truly sad indication of where this board is at, it IS why this was just a feeler. Absent any real support here, I'll let this idea pass.
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Old 04-26-2011, 05:15 PM #10
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Default Re: Contest (feeler): 2-months, to design a NEW community boost driver!

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Dave: That didn't happen with the DDL design.
Isn't that what the rkcstr driver is?
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Old 04-26-2011, 06:29 PM #11
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Default Re: Contest (feeler): 2-months, to design a NEW community boost driver!

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Isn't that what the rkcstr driver is?
I think so - as well as jib's design, and a bunch of drivers that you'll find on ebay now and then.

But these drivers have been an iteration that built upon the basic DDL starting point. I don't know a lot about rkcstr's driver's history, but I know that drivers like Jib's have discovered new ICs, and added additional caps in different places to provide for use of LDO regs, etc. A lot of drivers started with the DDL building blocks (included some drivers that are sold for reasonable prices). I don't think that has been a problem for anyone involved? (I could be wrong on that front, maybe Daedel's input/experiences would be worth soliciting!)
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Old 04-26-2011, 06:40 PM #12
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Default Re: Contest (feeler): 2-months, to design a NEW community boost driver!

Am I the only supporter of this? If I had money I would throw up something to offer as well to any would-be designer.
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Old 04-28-2011, 10:59 PM #13
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Default Re: Contest (feeler): 2-months, to design a NEW community boost driver!

rhd, if you look on an lm317 datasheet, you will see that the ddl driver is simply an lm317 set up in constant current mode, and slightly modified; Just like what you are trying to promote here.

I say sounds like a good contest.Wish I had brains to contribute
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Old 04-29-2011, 05:30 PM #14
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Default Re: Contest (feeler): 2-months, to design a NEW community boost driver!

I have one design to contribute, but I'm with Jerry. Let's make it free to use, modify, create, improve upon, iterate, collaborate on, alter, BUT sell, manufacture, distribute and produce via GB etc. only with author's permission.
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Old 04-29-2011, 06:35 PM #15
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Default Re: Contest (feeler): 2-months, to design a NEW community boost driver!

i like this. i would remove the "sell" part. Seeing as there are boost drivers out there and we are constantly finding more like ones in LED flash lights i see no conflict of interst here.

the ddl is huge. while it is super easy to make it is hard to fit in hosts. so if a diy one is made i'm pretty sure it will be big also. so i suspect that members wont be running off trying to get the winning design mass produced.

if getting a pcb boost driver made was the goal any body could go to an electronics engineer for this. but money is the hurdle

michael.

ps, i can not participate because i suck
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Old 04-29-2011, 06:52 PM #16
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Default Re: Contest (feeler): 2-months, to design a NEW community boost driver!

michael: What a reason to not participate. If you are looking for a small linear driver, check out my SimpleDrive2 (link in sig).
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Quote:
Fenzir: So why is it that we want these kind of diodes? I don't understand.
anselm: Because they emit coherent light, that's why....
405nm 20mW DealExtreme pointer
445nm 1W Hotlights with CUSTOM BOOST driver
532nm 50mW DealExtreme SDLaser 301 with key, up to spec when IR-filtered!
532nm 400mW DinoDirect Firedragon III "Certified Power Guaranteed" 500mW peak!

632nm 8mW Tesla 30 year old HeNe made in Czechoslovakia
637nm 400mW WF-501b yellow anodized and CUSTOM BUCK driver
685nm 35mW diode in Jayrob pen host

LaserBee 2.5W USB LPM
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