Old 03-26-2017, 02:08 AM #49
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Default Re: Thor's Hammer First Light !

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Originally Posted by dden4012 View Post
I have been asking Poco about having the manufacturer set the G7 lens into the barrel a few mm. Great lens but not optimum implementation. Having the lens halfway into the lens barrel would allow it to be used on the red diodes as well.
I can see that still having some problems with diode like the 44 with it's widely divergent fast axis, with the lens set into the barrel half way I could see the fast axis being a little clipped by the barrel before the fast axis part of the beam got to the lens ?

The reason I think that is because even with the lens at the very end of the barrel the lens has to be very far away (screwed way out) from the diode before it will begin to focus and at that distance I believe the fast axis of the 44 is already wider then the lens barrel it's self so either way the fast axis of the 44 will more than likely be clipped to some degree if used with a G7 lens ?


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My very short laser collection (for now)

Thor "Saber" Americanised Thor M II - DTR M462 2.2 Watt 462mn Diode W/Super X-Drive @ 1.8 Amps - DTR G-2 lens - JL 10X Beam Expander Class IV

"Thor's Hammer" Americanised TLY-L201 Host Build W/Old School NASA Type Safety Switch - DTR NUBM44 6.8 Watts at 4.5 Amps 450nm Diode In 25mm Copper Module W/Driver - DTR G-2 lens - OPT Laser 6X/3X Cylindrical Three Lens Fast Axis Correction W/Focusable Convex Lens Class IV

303 Prome Star Series Green Laser 532nm 80mW DPSS Class IIIb

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Old 03-26-2017, 03:48 AM #50
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Default Re: Thor's Hammer First Light !

Correcting the rapidly diverging axis or expanding the slower diverging axis then focusing with round lenses is the right way.

HOWEVER, as the NUBM44 is naturally diverging so much on 1 axis anyway, using a wider longer focal length lens and catching the naturally diverging beam at a wider point further from it's emitter would let us use a single lens to focus the diodes output like a cone to a point further and tighter.

I would like to make these wider housings and source some lenses and lens holders, but it might be easier since there is limited interest to simply cut half the threads off a 12mm housing so the naturally diverging beam wont clip into the threads and mount the module into a chunk of round bar stock and use PVC pipe or even cardstock " smooth construction paper " to make temporary lens holders.

But really correcting the rapidly diverging axis then using an expander is the right way only because 1 axis is diverging so much more than the other.

Still a wider housing with wider longer FL lenses could be interesting, possibly a 25mm 3 element would get a tighter spot to further distances.

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Old 03-26-2017, 03:58 AM #51
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Default Re: Thor's Hammer First Light !

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Originally Posted by RedCowboy View Post
I'm all about sharing what I know and learning from others, and if someone has a better way then by all means show me, I will be happy to do it their better way as long as I don't have to spend 10X the money for a 5% increase in performance.

Sadly cost is a factor and I suspect many people are content with the ready made lens and ready made expander that works pretty well.

But for those of us wanting more and looking to the future I am all about sharing what little I have learned and I want very much to share in the fruits of their labors and I will give praise and recognition in place of financial contributions that I cant afford.

People who are sharing their knowledge that they spent time and money to acquire do deserve at the least some praise and recognition, as well as some respect, you said something before, you said babble away and I will learn, well if you are polite and accept a little protocol correction in a new place, lets take this place, it's not really a free public place where free speech rights prevail.

No it's privately owned and if we as guests don't follow the rules then we can be ejected, so if the know it all at the apple store has some knowledge and by kissing a tiny bit of his backside you can gain some knowledge, then you can work ahead with that new knowledge while he sits around talking, then you can give away what he knew and more without requiring a lick on your boot.

But that's an extreme example, most people here are helpful and mostly worry about safety, liability, and a modest amount of courtesy is expected or they won't bother to get up and help you, but you already have learned the secret, it's all here in text, just start searching and reading and you can figure most of it out, although I still don't know how to calculate lenses even though I am very good at math, I really should, it will be needed to bypass the idiot proof GBall of tomorrow.

With the right lens we simply reverse engineer.....I just had a thought, what if I pulled the can off a GBall diode ( 1 of 2 of the same diodes, same lens order ) and cut the can down, then simply turned the lens around and mount them face to face?

Could I not get a point equal the distance of the emitter to the intact GBall with a emitter size point to correct and run with?

It just means sacrificing 1 to use another out of the same block.

Bring on the next gen I have a plan.
As I have told you, you have done great research. I don't know why we don't have yearly conference...Or workshop...The Tesla folks have a yearly Teslathon... It is at Ed Wingate's home in Rochester. Imagine a bunch of laser enthusiasts in one place!
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Old 03-26-2017, 03:59 AM #52
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Default Re: Thor's Hammer First Light !

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedCowboy View Post
Correcting the rapidly diverging axis or expanding the slower diverging axis then focusing with round lenses is the right way.

HOWEVER, as the NUBM44 is naturally diverging so much on 1 axis anyway, using a wider longer focal length lens and catching the naturally diverging beam at a wider point further from it's emitter would let us use a single lens to focus the diodes output like a cone to a point further and tighter.

I would like to make these wider housings and source some lenses and lens holders, but it might be easier since there is limited interest to simply cut half the threads off a 12mm housing so the naturally diverging beam wont clip into the threads and mount the module into a chunk of round bar stock and use PVC pipe or even cardstock " smooth construction paper " to make temporary lens holders.

But really correcting the rapidly diverging axis then using an expander is the right way only because 1 axis is diverging so much more than the other.

Still a wider housing with wider longer FL lenses could be interesting, possibly a 25mm 3 element would get a tighter spot to further distances.

Yes if a much larger lens was used even at the same distance away from the 44 that is needed with the G7 or even a little more I believe the rapidly diverging fast axis of the 44 wouldn't get clipped, I think the 44's fast axis is around 30 degrees wide as it exits the diode, I think but I could be wrong about that ? problem is when you get the narrower slow axis to a point you still have a ways to go before the much wider fast axis is brought to a point and when you get the fast axis to a point the slow axis is pass the point of focus when using a symmetrical round lens to focus both the fast and the slow axis, You can focus one axis or the other to a point but not both at the same time if that makes any sense ???

I believe we'll get all of the 44's beam focused to a point at a distance yet !
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Thor "Saber" Americanised Thor M II - DTR M462 2.2 Watt 462mn Diode W/Super X-Drive @ 1.8 Amps - DTR G-2 lens - JL 10X Beam Expander Class IV

"Thor's Hammer" Americanised TLY-L201 Host Build W/Old School NASA Type Safety Switch - DTR NUBM44 6.8 Watts at 4.5 Amps 450nm Diode In 25mm Copper Module W/Driver - DTR G-2 lens - OPT Laser 6X/3X Cylindrical Three Lens Fast Axis Correction W/Focusable Convex Lens Class IV

303 Prome Star Series Green Laser 532nm 80mW DPSS Class IIIb

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Old 03-26-2017, 04:41 AM #53
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Default Re: Thor's Hammer First Light !

The problem is the slower diverging axis, if we could place a cylindrical lens in front of the diode to expand the less aggressive axis to match the aggressive axis then we could use a larger round lens and get a cleaner cone to point of light.

The concave cylindrical would need a lock ring or tiny set screws tapped through the metal part of the lens holder so it's orientation could be set in place, maybe by a watchmaker who is good with small work.

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Old 03-26-2017, 05:37 AM #54
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Default Re: Thor's Hammer First Light !

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedCowboy View Post
The problem is the slower diverging axis, if we could place a cylindrical lens in front of the diode to expand the less aggressive axis to match the aggressive axis then we could use a larger round lens and get a cleaner cone to point of light.

The concave cylindrical would need a lock ring or tiny set screws tapped through the metal part of the lens holder so it's orientation could be set in place, maybe by a watchmaker who is good with small work.

does anyone make a concave cylindrical that could expand only the slow axis and is small enough to fit where you suggest ?
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My very short laser collection (for now)

Thor "Saber" Americanised Thor M II - DTR M462 2.2 Watt 462mn Diode W/Super X-Drive @ 1.8 Amps - DTR G-2 lens - JL 10X Beam Expander Class IV

"Thor's Hammer" Americanised TLY-L201 Host Build W/Old School NASA Type Safety Switch - DTR NUBM44 6.8 Watts at 4.5 Amps 450nm Diode In 25mm Copper Module W/Driver - DTR G-2 lens - OPT Laser 6X/3X Cylindrical Three Lens Fast Axis Correction W/Focusable Convex Lens Class IV

303 Prome Star Series Green Laser 532nm 80mW DPSS Class IIIb
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Old 03-26-2017, 07:00 AM #55
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Default Re: Thor's Hammer First Light !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Accutronitis View Post
does anyone make a concave cylindrical that could expand only the slow axis and is small enough to fit where you suggest ?
See: https://www.newport.com/n/beam-shapi...ndrical-lenses Application 9

and

"Plano-convex cylindrical lenses lenses are often used in perpendicularly
oriented pairs for collimation and circularization of diode
laser outputs. The lens closer to the laser collimates the
fast axis, while the second lens collimates the slow axis of
the laser diode. Using two distinct lenses in this way also
permits complete removal of the astigmatism inherent in
laser diodes"---from here: https://www.cvilaseroptics.com/file/...icalLenses.pdf


Also see: https://www.edmundoptics.com/resourc...linder-lenses/
"Creating Circular Beams
Typically, laser diodes emit elliptical shaped beams that may be unsuitable for applications that require a collimated, circular laser source. Using two cylinder lenses is a common method to circularize an elliptical beam - the first lens magnifies the minor axis of the laser diode, and the second lens collimates the beam. The curved side of the lenses and the minor axis of the laser diode should be oriented so that the minor axis is being magnified."

Would guess Edmond could supply whatever size you want to play with either as off-the-shelf or cusiom made.

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Old 03-26-2017, 07:38 AM #56
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Default Re: Thor's Hammer First Light !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Encap View Post
See: https://www.newport.com/n/beam-shapi...ndrical-lenses Application 9

and

"Plano-convex cylindrical lenses lenses are often used in perpendicularly
oriented pairs for collimation and circularization of diode
laser outputs. The lens closer to the laser collimates the
fast axis, while the second lens collimates the slow axis of
the laser diode. Using two distinct lenses in this way also
permits complete removal of the astigmatism inherent in
laser diodes"---from here: https://www.cvilaseroptics.com/file/...icalLenses.pdf


Also see: https://www.edmundoptics.com/resourc...linder-lenses/
"Creating Circular Beams
Typically, laser diodes emit elliptical shaped beams that may be unsuitable for applications that require a collimated, circular laser source. Using two cylinder lenses is a common method to circularize an elliptical beam - the first lens magnifies the minor axis of the laser diode, and the second lens collimates the beam. The curved side of the lenses and the minor axis of the laser diode should be oriented so that the minor axis is being magnified."

Would guess Edmond could supply whatever size you want to play with either as off-the-shelf or cusiom made.
We know about "Cylindrical Lens Pairs" what we're talking about is a lens that can fit right in front of the diode before collimating the beam like before a G7 collimating lens ?
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My very short laser collection (for now)

Thor "Saber" Americanised Thor M II - DTR M462 2.2 Watt 462mn Diode W/Super X-Drive @ 1.8 Amps - DTR G-2 lens - JL 10X Beam Expander Class IV

"Thor's Hammer" Americanised TLY-L201 Host Build W/Old School NASA Type Safety Switch - DTR NUBM44 6.8 Watts at 4.5 Amps 450nm Diode In 25mm Copper Module W/Driver - DTR G-2 lens - OPT Laser 6X/3X Cylindrical Three Lens Fast Axis Correction W/Focusable Convex Lens Class IV

303 Prome Star Series Green Laser 532nm 80mW DPSS Class IIIb
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Old 03-26-2017, 10:45 AM #57
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Default Re: Thor's Hammer First Light !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Accutronitis View Post
We know about "Cylindrical Lens Pairs" what we're talking about is a lens that can fit right in front of the diode before collimating the beam like before a G7 collimating lens ?
call, fax, or email Edmond Optics -- as they say: "Edmund Optics offers the world’s largest inventory of off-the-shelf optical components, which includes an extensive selection of stock optical lenses such as Achromatic Lenses or Aspheric Lenses"

https://www.edmundoptics.com/contact-support/

If a silk purse can be made out of a sow's ear, Edmond's Opiics application engineers can probably supply the optics to do it or close to it.
It they can't then thinking about it is most likely just "whistling dixie"

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Old 03-26-2017, 11:15 AM #58
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Default Re: Thor's Hammer First Light !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Encap View Post
call, fax, or email Edmond Optics -- as they say: "Edmund Optics offers the world’s largest inventory of off-the-shelf optical components, which includes an extensive selection of stock optical lenses such as Achromatic Lenses or Aspheric Lenses"

https://www.edmundoptics.com/contact-support/

If a silk purse can be made out of a sow's ear, Edmond's Opiics application engineers can probably supply the optics to do it or close to it.
It they can't then you thinking about it is most likely just "whistling dixie"
Your prob right, I think it would def be worth a phone call for sure....



Quote:
Originally Posted by RedCowboy View Post
The problem is the slower diverging axis, if we could place a cylindrical lens in front of the diode to expand the less aggressive axis to match the aggressive axis then we could use a larger round lens and get a cleaner cone to point of light.

The concave cylindrical would need a lock ring or tiny set screws tapped through the metal part of the lens holder so it's orientation could be set in place, maybe by a watchmaker who is good with small work.

I was thinking wouldn't be better to compress the fast axis rather than expand the slow axis ?
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My very short laser collection (for now)

Thor "Saber" Americanised Thor M II - DTR M462 2.2 Watt 462mn Diode W/Super X-Drive @ 1.8 Amps - DTR G-2 lens - JL 10X Beam Expander Class IV

"Thor's Hammer" Americanised TLY-L201 Host Build W/Old School NASA Type Safety Switch - DTR NUBM44 6.8 Watts at 4.5 Amps 450nm Diode In 25mm Copper Module W/Driver - DTR G-2 lens - OPT Laser 6X/3X Cylindrical Three Lens Fast Axis Correction W/Focusable Convex Lens Class IV

303 Prome Star Series Green Laser 532nm 80mW DPSS Class IIIb

Last edited by Accutronitis; 03-26-2017 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 03-26-2017, 01:23 PM #59
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Default Re: Thor's Hammer First Light !

Originally I thought you were talking about expanding the slow axis, but you could build ready to use 6X correction for the fast axis as the separation is 35mm, just use lock rings to set the lenses orientation.


OR, Just use a 12mm module with a NUBM44, a G2 primary, and attach a 6X pair.

We are kind of reinventing the wheel here.



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Thor's Hammer First Light !-nubm44fix2a6x.jpg   Thor's Hammer First Light !-44withg2and6x12c.jpg  
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Old 03-26-2017, 02:17 PM #60
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Default Re: Thor's Hammer First Light !

Just going back to what I was saying I will add that the raw output of the 44 hits the inner threads of the module about 3 or 4 mm from the end.
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Old 03-26-2017, 05:11 PM #61
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Default Re: Thor's Hammer First Light !

I'll tell you one thing, It sure is hard as heck to get an idea that's in your head across to other people while only using a keyboard and Microsoft Paint !
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Old 03-26-2017, 10:07 PM #62
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Default Re: Thor's Hammer First Light !

Yea I did try to show that, I'm just keeping the pics small enough to upload directly.

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