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View Poll Results: Should global sales of class 4 laser pointers be banned to the public ?
Yes, BAN global class 4 laser pointer sales to the public? 12 28.57%
No!!! This world needs the element of danger. 30 71.43%
Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-18-2010, 01:04 AM #17
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Default Re: POLL: BAN high power laser sales to the general public?

It's happened. And no, the laser world hasn't ended over it yet either.


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Old 07-18-2010, 01:14 AM #18
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Default Re: POLL: BAN high power laser sales to the general public?

I don't think they should be banned outright, but there do need to be more restrictions than we have now. I'd have it so that only authorized retailers who had passed a safety exam could sell them (this would eliminate unfiltered and dangerously over-spec lasers), and all buyers of lasers over 1mW would need to have a safety certification. Any laser from a non authorized company would automatically be seized at the border to prevent smuggling. The certification should consist of a series of safety classes and a test, which would be available to anyone. All companies would have to confirm a purchasers certification number in order to sell them a >1mW laser. This would stop idiots who have no idea what they are getting into from buying one while preserving any legitimate enthusiasts ability to own them.

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Old 07-18-2010, 01:15 AM #19
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Default Re: POLL: BAN high power laser sales to the general public?

Quote:
Originally Posted by qumefox View Post
It's happened. And no, the laser world hasn't ended over it yet either.
Got a link?? Google returns nada. I know its a big thing for planes and yes it has caused issues. Have you read why laws were put into effect in .AU?

What exactly do you mean by "laser world hasn't ended? Im not talking about what you can obtain, rather people and lives affected by these lasers.

Google search for 'car flashed by laser highway'

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Old 07-18-2010, 01:30 AM #20
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Default Re: POLL: BAN high power laser sales to the general public?

Governments should never be allowed to outright ban products because of their potential for danger. It is the job of the PEOPLE to use those products responsibly. By letting the government control what you can and can't do over every little thing is giving the government the power to control you in whatever way they see fit. That is a travesty to freedom and I for one will never let my government control everything I do just because the rest of the populace is too weak, or ignorant, or naive or whatever to just sit down and let it happen.

Instead of just letting the government tell you know no, it would be a lot better if there were just some simple regulations that restricted exactly who could buy the lasers. Just like to drive a car you have to pass a test showing that you at least have a minimum level of understanding of the laws involved and that you have the minimum required skills to operate a vehicle. Same goes for flying, commercial vehicles, etc. Some idiots of course will still sip through, but I am not wiling to sacrifice my freedom for the stupidity/ignorance of others.
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Old 07-18-2010, 01:31 AM #21
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Default Re: POLL: BAN high power laser sales to the general public?

I've seen what irresponsible people do with lasers.
One time I was at a concert and I saw a girl pointing a green laser which appeared to be a little less then 50mW at other people's eyes. Imagine what would have happened if it was a 1W laser.
I've handled a lot of knifes and swords and what makes lasers more dangerous than them is that you can blind dozens of people in a matter of seconds by swinging around with it in a crowd. You can also blind people over 100 meters away.
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Old 07-18-2010, 01:45 AM #22
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Default Re: POLL: BAN high power laser sales to the general public?

why arent these sort of things not a major problem yet? surely by now anyone could have a 200mW pointer, yet i have only ever seen one other person with a laser pointer before, not using it stupidly by chance. it seems people are jumping to conclusions based on the lasers potential and not what is probable. blind from 200mW is just as blind as from 1W anyway, and while i agree 1W will do it quicker, more thoroughly, and at greater distance, the power rating is not what will be the major danger, its the presence of lasers of any real power themselves. think of what potential for danger giving everyone guns is like. mass slaughter could very well occur. anyone walking down the road could be killed instantly by anyone else. im frankly surprised it doesnt happen more often. i guess the reason is that people are more appreciative of the consequences of a gun. i imagine as lasers get stronger, the warnings will get stronger too. the danger will increase slightly but i think laser awareness will increase more.
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Old 07-18-2010, 03:07 AM #23
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Default Re: POLL: BAN high power laser sales to the general public?

Personally I see the laser as a new age weapon that would be well suited in a criminals hands.

Example, two guys walk into a bank and rob it. Not only could they disable the CCTV, blind the witnesses who could no longer aid in a police sketch. Make their way out of the bank blinding anyone who is in their path. Proceed to the get away car, and blind or temp blind any pursuing police.

How would one give chase when you cant see anything?? Cop car behind you? ZAP. The laser does not even have to cause permanent damage. You could realistically disable an entire squad of pursuing cops in a matter of minutes.

Even the FLIR system on a police heli is susceptible to IR and could probably be damaged rendering the police equip useless.

This is a whole new ball game in my opinion, and high power lasers working hand in hand with guns and criminals, lasers are going to prove themselves to be a nasty tool in the wrong hands.

I doubt there is any way to control such events from taking place. But these things will happen at some point or another.


Come to think about it, all it will take is a movie with a similar plot to such a robbery and the copycats will follow.
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Old 07-18-2010, 03:34 AM #24
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Default Re: POLL: BAN high power laser sales to the general public?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tabish View Post
EDIT: ONLY talking about premade pointers like WL Arctic.
Buying parts / diodes / DIY kits doesn't count.

As cool as lasers pointers are...

-The output powers are skyrocketing
-The prices are skydiving

This is a recipe for disaster...

As soon as people around the world get their "Arctics", I can just see things like:

"$200 laser pointer causes teenager to lose his/her eyesight"

As bad as 1W is, reports are that a 3W diode is next.
IMAGINE what kids (or retarded adults) with 3W pointers are capable of...

Now imagine laser diode technology 5 or 10 years from now...

So I come to the conclusion:
--------------------------------------------------------------
BAN GLOBAL SALES OF CLASS 4 LASERS TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC
--------------------------------------------------------------

This is something a global governing bodies like NATO / IEEE may have to step in for...


---------------------------------------------------------------------
What this means for us:

Laser hobbyists will still be able to BUY DIODES/PARTS and CONSTRUCT high powered lasers.

Most of us who can assemble class 4 lasers know the dangers so we are mostly safe.

It's the kids/morons who see a youtube video:

"X watts laser killing/burning Y" and go "OHH I WANT!!!"

Discuss...
First and foremost, lasers are not yet a widespread or real problem to the general public. This being said, it is unlikely that anything will be done about them in the near future.

Now, normally I am a huge proponent of survival of the fittest, but I think your logic may be fairly accurate. That's not to say I agree that lasers should be banned, however I do recognize that there is a clear benefit to perhaps regulating lasers(more-so than is done already). The laser safety argument is often compared to guns, and while there are innumerable differences, there are also quite a few similarities. Yes, it will always be possible to get your hands on... well, just about anything in this world, however that does not mean that it shouldn't be made more difficult. The point is to minimize harm, since it's nearly impossible to snuff it out altogether. Lasers ARE dangerous, but in their current state they are not weapons to bring about Armageddon.

One point you make clear is that you do not believe that DIY parts should be banned. I agree with this wholeheartedly. Referring back to the gun arguments, it is NOT illegal to make your own gun of any sort(yes, that means it is legal to make your own minigun!) The reason why is that it is costly, if takes a great deal of skill, and more likely than not a home-made gun will not retain the accuracy and power of industrial guns. At least two of those reasons apply to lasers as well.

So, obviously, its a controversial topic around here... but I agree with both your intentions and your assessment of the majority of people. That is to say, there are quite a few careless, reckless, and just plain silly people out there. It's not a bad thing to keep them docile, so long as it doesn't cost the freedom of others.

We aren't trying to to make it more difficult for the laser hobbyist to get hold of a laser or make the hobby more inconvenient in any way. Our aim is to prevent UNNECESSARY injury and harm. While it is impossible to do away with completely, there is more than can be done to aid our cause.

TL;DR - More regulation on pre-built lasers(perhaps a license, although that necessitates requirements and there is always so much debate over those, as well as stricter import policies); DIY parts will still be available; NO bans or taxation of any sort.
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Old 07-18-2010, 03:34 AM #25
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Default Re: POLL: BAN high power laser sales to the general public?

Man we have argued this to death tons of time.

Keep in mind the laser community is small. At least a 100,000th of the population, probably more. One group is interested in the visual part. Those people obviously have to work hard to learn the art, so they know all the safety concerns. Another group are the pros, who also obviously know the dangers. Then you have the basic hobbyists. Once again they have spend time learning to build lasers, and learn the dangers along the way. Then you have the a$$holes. They are the smallest part of the whole equation. Most countries have laws tailored to these people. Which makes the equation even smaller. So, in truth there is only a minuscule amount of the population that will abuse high powered lasers. Thats why there is only a handful of incidents world wide, and most incidence are from lower power lasers.
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Old 07-18-2010, 03:47 AM #26
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Default Re: POLL: BAN high power laser sales to the general public?

man if only .55% of Apple Care complaints were due to reception and dropped call problems we are golden . . .
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Old 07-18-2010, 03:59 AM #27
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Default Re: POLL: BAN high power laser sales to the general public?

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Man we have argued this to death tons of time.

Keep in mind the laser community is small. At least a 100,000th of the population, probably more. One group is interested in the visual part. Those people obviously have to work hard to learn the art, so they know all the safety concerns. Another group are the pros, who also obviously know the dangers. Then you have the basic hobbyists. Once again they have spend time learning to build lasers, and learn the dangers along the way. Then you have the a$$holes. They are the smallest part of the whole equation. Most countries have laws tailored to these people. Which makes the equation even smaller. So, in truth there is only a minuscule amount of the population that will abuse high powered lasers. Thats why there is only a handful of incidents world wide, and most incidence are from lower power lasers.
Valid point, however what if it were possible to decrease those incidents even further and at no harm to any of the other (non-asshole) groups of laser users? Would that warrant your acceptance?

You pointed out the same thing I did in my response (although you detailed it a bit nicer :P) about how it's not a serious issue yet. The thing is, and I believe this to be the concern of the OP, that as technology advances so will the aspect of danger associated with it. It's difficult to say whether or not it will even become a problem of any significance (I certainly don't know the future ), however operating on the assumption that it does...

I'll also take this time to re-iterate that I don't really believe any additional legislation needs to be passed at this time just because the problems it would most likely cause for the technicians, scientists, and even hobbyists outweigh the benefit it would provide.
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Old 07-18-2010, 04:24 AM #28
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Default Re: POLL: BAN high power laser sales to the general public?

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Originally Posted by x90z75ek View Post
I've seen what irresponsible people do with lasers.
One time I was at a concert and I saw a girl pointing a green laser which appeared to be a little less then 50mW at other people's eyes. Imagine what would have happened if it was a 1W laser.
I've handled a lot of knifes and swords and what makes lasers more dangerous than them is that you can blind dozens of people in a matter of seconds by swinging around with it in a crowd. You can also blind people over 100 meters away.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Perfect example here.
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Old 07-18-2010, 04:44 AM #29
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Default Re: POLL: BAN high power laser sales to the general public?

Just wow i don't even.

This idea of banning a laser then say oh well here are all the part is stupid. Please ban stuff for the other people but just not ME because well i am that cool . You know how stuck up you sound right? Honestly no law like this would stand imagine the effects on projector and optical media industries would be? The fact is we let some 16yr's kid behind the wheel of a 2ton hunk of metal i think lasers are the least of our worries.
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Old 07-18-2010, 04:52 AM #30
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Default Re: POLL: BAN high power laser sales to the general public?

This thread is about multi-watt lasers and not specifically 445nm lasers. This thread does not seek to contribute to the forum in a healthy discussion, rather to incite flaim wars and problems. This thread does not belong here.
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Old 07-18-2010, 04:52 AM #31
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Default Re: POLL: BAN high power laser sales to the general public?

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Just wow i don't even.

This idea of banning a laser then say oh well here are all the part is stupid. Please ban stuff for the other people but just not ME because well i am that cool . You know how stuck up you sound right? Honestly no law like this would stand imagine the effects on projector and optical media industries would be? The fact is we let some 16yr's kid behind the wheel of a 2ton hunk of metal i think lasers are the least of our worries.
You Sir, just earned a +rep. I also haven't figured out why he thinks he'd be allowed to keep his lasers just because he built them himself either. The government only plays favorites like that when you manage to grease the right palms, which I doubt he'd have the capital to do. If high powered lasers got banned, YOURS would be on the banned list as well Tabish.
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Old 07-18-2010, 04:57 AM #32
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Default Re: POLL: BAN high power laser sales to the general public?

This topic has already been discussed to death.
This poll is
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