Old 09-15-2016, 12:04 AM #17
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Default Re: Pman's NUBM44 build plus comparison shots

My draw is 24 watts into a SXD driver that puts out 4.5 amps at 4.7 volts into a NUBM44 and I work the dog squeeze out of them.

I don't need 50a but I test the sag under load and I also know what holds up longer and the EFest 26650's outlast the EFest 18650's both of IMR formulation.


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Old 09-15-2016, 12:06 AM #18
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Default Re: Pman's NUBM44 build plus comparison shots

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Originally Posted by RedCowboy View Post
What's the toughest 18650 that can carry 12 watts continuous output?
I love the Sanyo NCR18650GA, it's an excellent battery (3500mAh) and can put out 5A easily, even 10A. For my 589 I use the LG E1 to keep the voltage higher (it is a 4.35v cell). But I think for your application, 26650s would be better; essentially any 26650 beats an 18650, simply because it is a bigger battery. I use keeppower 26650s typically.

Edit: thanks for the +rep electricplasma!
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Old 09-15-2016, 12:14 AM #19
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Default Re: Pman's NUBM44 build plus comparison shots

Sanyo NCR 18650GA



Gpower 4200mAh 26650 IMR



FASTTECH is lacking variety of 26650, but what they have rates higher, and my real world testing I have switched from the best 18650's I can find to 26650's and it's the same latest chemistry just bigger.

https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/...argeable-li-mn
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Old 09-15-2016, 12:18 AM #20
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Default Re: Pman's NUBM44 build plus comparison shots

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Sanyo NCR 18650GA



Gpower 4200mAh 26650 IMR

I think we're misunderstanding each other, what I am saying is that 18650s have greater power density, not greater power. If you have the space you should always use 26650s. Just that 18650s have more power relative to their size.
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Old 09-15-2016, 12:24 AM #21
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Default Re: Pman's NUBM44 build plus comparison shots

I am ready for more power, a lot more, and I will go with what works, it seems the 18650 was getting the upgraded formulation first for the vape market, but 26650 now has the same.

I don't see the 32650 with anything but 1 offering so I have stopped at 26650, Now hobby packs are pretty tough, they can be expensive too, I am looking for the best balance of value for size.

The internal resistance of the BASEN 26650's I bought was insane low and so far they hold up great, better than any of my 18650's and I buy the best rated, used to be the Panasonic NCR but not anymore, for brute output the IMR/INR beats them as for brute output under sub ohm loads.

The trade off is capacity for intensity, so if the formulation is the same the larger cell wins.


OOPS, I think we hijacked this thread.
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Old 09-15-2016, 08:50 AM #22
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Default Re: Pman's NUBM44 build plus comparison shots

Since its hijacked a bit which I know Pman wouldn't mind "I hope" as he started with a sweet build that turned into some interesting questions I have a somewhat silly one I want to ask.
Ok iv'e been here for a while and still have some really noob type questions. Here's one,
Has anyone noticed say using a 3 element lens that the laser gets hotter quicker than using a G2?
Does the light that the 3 element doesn't let through lead to more heat back towards the diode/sink?
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Old 09-15-2016, 09:13 AM #23
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Default Re: Pman's NUBM44 build plus comparison shots

Quote:
Has anyone noticed say using a 3 element lens that the laser gets hotter quicker than using a G2?
Does the light that the 3 element doesn't let through lead to more heat back towards the diode/sink?
Well any additional absorption or back reflection from the lens would lead to some additional heat (at least logically).
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Old 09-15-2016, 12:56 PM #24
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Default Re: Pman's NUBM44 build plus comparison shots

The 3 element clips the ends of the bar shaped output, that light energy is reabsorbed as waste heat.

Also with a 5.3mm rear focal length vs. the G2's 2.39mm rear focal length a small part of the edges may well be absorbed into the module's walls, especially with more divergent diodes, you can see it in the raw output on a wall, some of the ends are clipped by even the modules threads. So the shorter FL G2 gets closer to the diodes face where the output is narrower, thus conveying more of the output.
The trade off being a wider spot at any given distance beyond FL.

You can see it in DTR's testing, the 3 ele lets 5.5 watts through where the G2 lets 6.7 watts through. That missing 1.2 watts is heating the module and it heats up faster.
NOTE: His meter is pegged at the start with the G2

3 element



G2
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Old 09-15-2016, 01:00 PM #25
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Default Re: Pman's NUBM44 build plus comparison shots

Well, that clarifies things. Thanks RC.
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Old 09-15-2016, 01:35 PM #26
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Default Re: Pman's NUBM44 build plus comparison shots

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Well, that clarifies things. Thanks RC.
Thanks RedC, I didn't realize though as to that much and never considered even the FL difference.
A tiny bit confused though, what if there was no light clipping?
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Old 09-15-2016, 02:29 PM #27
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Default Re: Pman's NUBM44 build plus comparison shots

I don't think there is any clipping with the DTR G2, or very little.
Understand that we push these diodes beyond factory spec.

I have seen DTR in a video testing before and back the power down to factory spec plus a bit and the output will actually start climbing in the heavy heat sink because it is dissipating heat as fast as it is making it. The ferrous diode backing may be a slight bottleneck beyond factory spec, the projectors turn up the current slowly over the diodes lifespan, that's one reason we have so much headroom, and why we saw 9mm replace 5.6mm DTR's FULL COPPER modules pull heat from the sides and back, and a dab of compound in there helps, theoretically the diode reaches a point of unity where it sheds heat as fast as it makes it at factory spec, but for us power pushers the bigger full copper modules 20, 25, 35mm sound like a good way forward barring active cooling. I like a big heat sink.

I still use the 12mm standard full copper and get mine pretty darn warm!
But, not too hot to hold, the 44 is a tough diode and cools down to output like new, just don't cook eggs on the sink, the spec sheets vary, but they do run warm.
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Old 09-15-2016, 02:35 PM #28
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Default Re: Pman's NUBM44 build plus comparison shots

I have only ever bought modules from DTR with G-2 lenses. I haven't seem beam clipping with those modules. As I haven't used the 3 element lenses, clipping is unknown to me.
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Old 09-15-2016, 02:47 PM #29
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Default Re: Pman's NUBM44 build plus comparison shots

Sometimes it's worth the trade off, with my simple 3X expander only builds I use the 3 element for a tighter burning spot and accept the lost watt in exchange for the tighter burning dot/bar.

But when I use the G2 and 6X cyl pair to correct the fast axis that burning spot/bar kicks much azz, add in an expander and now were lasing.

I would like to see a wide lens 35mm module, it would have to be longer and would cost more, but with the right lens it would save some steps to gaining useful reach. The PC designation could be FAT BEAM or WIDE BEAM module.
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Old 09-15-2016, 02:56 PM #30
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Default Re: Pman's NUBM44 build plus comparison shots

I like power But am starting to appreciate better beam specs more. It is one of the reasons why I am sticking with my 532 rather than going for a 520. I still need to look into beam correcting my M44. The laser is exceptional at short range but can be matched by a BDR-209 at 1m+. It would be nice to see a option for these fast axis diodes without needing extra lenses.
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Old 09-15-2016, 03:25 PM #31
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Default Re: Pman's NUBM44 build plus comparison shots

I don't mind at all the battery talk or really any of it as some do. You really can't help talking about other things related and I am trying to bring up some very noticeable differences that I have observed comparing the same wavelength diodes and how you never quite know what wavelength/color you are going to get.
For instance, when I built that 5.5A driven 07E I could immediately see some green tint to the beam and it was a color I hadn't seen before. Because I am very fond of that diode I've built 3 so far and I know at some point I'll be building another but more likely I will go with 4A this time because I have 4.5, 5 and 5.5. Anyways, when I built another one at 5A I was stunned to find out that it actually looks like it has even more green in it than the 5.5A one and my wife agrees.
Another example of this would be with the 2 462 diodes that Jordan sells. If you want 462/464 you are likely to get about that with the M462 but if you want a higher wavelength then go with the 9mm sized NDB7675. Some diodes are very close to their rating and some are all over the place in power handling and wavelength. This is why if you have a bunch of lasers in say a particular overall color such as blue when you actually arrange them by their actual color and not what they are supposed to be its really interesting how they line up just like I was trying to show in this instance.
As far as batteries go for whatever reason the 18650 size is what the industry has decided to go with overall. I have a plug-in Prius and an HS250H hyvrid which to my understanding both are loaded with 18650 size cells. I believe the my Prius has almost 300 of them and it only gets about 11 miles on electric alone. The new one coming out in a couple months is supposed to have double that range but my bet is it won't have double the batteries because the batteries are going to be a bit better. What I would like to know is how they are going to wire more batteries in. What I mean is are they going to put them in series or parallel with the ones already there. Just so you know, the plug-in has 3 battery packs in it and 2 of the 3 are used for electric only driving and you can use them whenever you want. The car acts like a normal Prius as a hybrid with the other battery pack and the Atkinson cycle engine. The point is as far as I know all hybrids or electric vehicles are using 18650 so that's where the development $ goes but it will eventually trickle to the other sizes. Surface area is surface area and if we figured out how much larger a 26650 or 32650 is than an 18650 I would say that their capacity is a bit low right now. Maybe not so much with the 26650 but with the 32650.
I just purchased a bunch more 10440 Efest batteries because they don't even show them at their website anymore and I'm afraid they are going to stop making them altogether. It would be nice if they came out with 32650 but I doubt there are many mods out there for vape that take them if any so I'm not holding my breath.
Something else I noticed on the Efest site is they have a new battery pack coming soon. Take a look when you get a chance.
I'm not trying to advertise Efest or anything it just happens that they keep coming out with new cells and are getting more and more popular. I'm not familiar at all with those Sanyo GA or the Basen ones. Shockingly every single laser I have have their own batteries assigned which allows me to take all those pics. What I currently have in 18650 cells not assigned any laser yet are:

Samsung 25R
Sanyo BF
Sony VTC-4
Panasonic PF and PD
Efest red
various pulls from laptop packs and a few of those Westinghouse 2000mAh ones that are now being sold by Walmart.
The rest of the sizes are Efest, AW/IMR, Feilong. King Kong, Tenergy and yes a few fire types but not the ultra crappy mismatched ones.

Battery choice for the particular laser comes down to current draw and sag. I would trade off shorter run time for a more robust battery.

As far as 3 element and heat that loss of output has to go somewhere and it certainly must be absorbed by whatever the beam is touching so the lens and the body and sink is absorbing it. What kind of factor is it in the on cycle I can't say for sure but it obviously has meaning. Is there potential for reflection back to the diode? I would have to say yes of course but I don't know what that really means in the overall scheme of things. I've never heard of anyone doing a test to see what happens when you aim a laser at another diode but because it's a reflection back it's lost a lot of output.

As far as lenses go when I first started here it was about power but as time went by I couldn't stand such odd dots and the beams getting so wide so quickly with mulimodes. Just looks ugly to me. I feel it's like I was initially a laser child and then grew up but this would not necessarily be the case if I was more into burning so no one take what I said as some kind of offense please. Reality is it takes just a moment to change a lens although you do need to be very careful about debris the higher the output you are dealing with. Good practice is to treat them all as if they will die with any exposure to anything.
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Last edited by Pman; 09-15-2016 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 09-15-2016, 03:41 PM #32
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Default Re: Pman's NUBM44 build plus comparison shots

Sorry Pete, the thread has slightly derailed a bit. It is amazing to see how different the wavelength can be based on the same diode type, and by experimenting with different parameters.
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