I'm concerned. A one watt laser pointer for less then 200$ is a problem in the hands of those who are immature. If your running a group buy, the repercussions of this are on your heads.

I don't give a damn about lack of enforcement of federal laws in the US or Free Will or Personal Freedom. Let me rephrase that, I do give a damn about my ability to purchase tools, parts, and materials to do my job as a laser professional and my freedom.

In other words, please think twice before you sell blue kits at 200$ or less to some one who lacks maturity. Your shortchanging your own rights in the long run.

The federal government is failing on enforcement to the point that laser safety will pass to the state level, and that would be a non uniform mess. Five years ago this device would have had safeguards to prevent diode removal. It needs to be retrofitted right now to diodes bonded to a sled. That would make it a better projector for its intended use, anyway.

I hate to be a Cassandra (Greek Mythology, look her up) , but I ask
Those of you organizing massive group buys need to think about what your doing and whom your selling to.

At 700mW to 1 watt, injuries will be all too common, and blue has some unique short and long term PROVEN side effects with respect to color vision. Prolonged exposure to intense blue results in diminished green vision. This has been proven in studies of eye surgeons who used blue lasers to treat patients. The green vision comes back somewhat in 3-6 months. The surgeons were exposed to milliwatts at best for 20-40 minute sessions per patient.

Argon multiline blue/green has been largely replaced by green and yellow-green wavelengths for retinal surgery, blue/green was used because it was what was available with the technology of the time. Surgeons have long decried the tissue side effects of blue green, and only in the past 5 years has DPSS made its way into eye surgery.


This blue wavelength has some unique biochemical actions on releasing free radicals, and is strongly adsorbed by red blood cells in capillaries. It causes larger damaged areas in retinal tissue and is far more likely to be adsorbed by the tissue then 532 nm light.

I'm not open to arguments on this one, I've worked with 488 nm light since 1989 or so.

There is no legitimate non military need for a watt of collimated visible light in a hand held device.

You certainly have the right to blow out your own retinas. But when you affect others the game changes.

Blue glare in a aircraft will NOT be a good thing.

Don't even bother to make the lame comments about the poorer beam quality, high divergence, etc.

167 people are looking at this thread as I type. Wait till it gets slashdotted, kipcayed, etc..

It is to the communities advantage to self regulate, restrict buyer age, make buyers sign a warning notice, and to drive the price upwards.

Your new laser regulator will NOT be the CDRH if this gets out of hand. It will be the FAA, US Customs, Homeland Security, and your LOCAL POLICE. FAA had no problems getting a instant moratorium on outdoor laser shows some years ago, and the FAA can and will get enforcement instantly, if this gets out of hand. And it will be a FELONY and CIVIL PENALITES.

Freedom is not free, it comes with great responsibility.


You have been warned. You can also bet I and others will be calling Casio first thing Monday Morning.

Steve

Listen to this man. If we aren't careful this could be the beginning of the end for us. Buy goggles. Don't be stupid. Don't buy if you don't know what you are doing. This is not a game. These are now weapons. This shit is for real

Rob

Absolutely seconded.

I agree wholeheartedly, and you can whine and moan and call me a fuddy-duddy and every other bad name in the book, I don't care. I personally wouldn't sell one of these to anyone unless they answered a short questionnaire and posted a picture of their CERTIFIED goggles of at least OD >5 for this wavelength and a slip of paper with their username and the date on it. If you think it's too much hassle, then you don't deserve the laser to begin with.

Completely agree.

If a kid ends up with one of these-and ends up getting himself or others hurt- the seller may end up in court--just like selling a gun to a minor-

-Steve knows of what he speaks!!

Steve ---

Amen------- Period .....

Wake up dudes and for once read and understand.

HMike

This deserves a sticky.

I would have no problem if the entirety of this hobby went the way of hobby rocketry.

Any idiot can buy an Estes and launch it in their front yard, and could theoretically hurt themselves with it if they tried, but the Big Boys that are truly dangerous are severely limited and you must be licensed to own/use/build them.

That model sounds fine to me: any idiot can buy a little laser pointer or a little show or whatever, but components that are truly dangerous, that are on the same scale as the big, regulated rocket engines, could be regulated the same way.

I fully agree too and I am also concern.

We started talking about the same issue over here: Casio XJ-A130 DLP Projector $689.98 SHIPPED and made some suggestions on how we can educate us on the use of Class 4 lasers.

I also mentioned in my post regarding Building Laser Pointers Using the 455nm Laser Diodes And, please do not try to save money purchasing those cheap sunglasses for $12 that has been talked around here!

Jose

I don't feel there is much danger HERE on the forum. In fact, if you've been here for any decent amount of time, safety has already been driven into your skull by the vets. Maybe try to avoid selling to VERY new people like those who only join to buy.

I'd be more concerned about COMPANIES and eBay. Here, we respect the hobby, but out there, people are just trying to make a buck.

At the powers of these blue diodes, anything less then a OD5 AMERICAN NATIONAL STANDARDS INSTITUTE CERTIFIED AND TESTED GOGGLE IS A SAFETY HAZARD IN ITSELF!! A 25$ safety Google DOES NOT have the testing needed for prolonged use.

IF you are dependent on a pair of Goggles for your eye safety you just FLUNKED laser safety 101. Goggles are designed to be a last resort. True laser safety involves controlling access to the laser light and its scattering.

And don't say to me OD 4 is enough, you need a safety factor in the exposure far beyond the 5 mW of class IIIA, in case the diode exceeds its design power or the goggles have a defect. If it can do 800 mW for N amount of time, it can do 2000 mW for at least a brief time.

In a professional situation, we would enclose this beam, mount it on a optical table below waist height, interlock it to the lab door, terminate it properly, and train the operator. We would also measure the scattering to ensure levels compliant with the ANSI and 21 CFR Rules. It would not be waved around at full power, power would be reduced during adjustment. It would have a safety shutter, and a emission indicator. Training would be documented, and a keyswitch used. If the emission could leave the lab, into a public area, there would be hell to pay! By definition most pointer users take their pointers public.

Untested 25$ goggles are NOT acceptable with these diodes.

Steve

Thanks for coming on here from PL to give some of us a wakeup call. I'd imagine that it gets frustrating after a while.

Rob

Correct, I have been part of this gorup for about two years and working with low power laser since the early 70's. And love this place because I see that repeately we get the strong message about laser safety by vets, yes.

However, once the word goes out that we are sharing instruction on how to build them, it very likely that is going to bring new people who may newer used a laser, much less such powerful laser.

And, yes, there is not much we can do about those "companies" and eBay sellers

Jose

+rep and a big thank you steve

I was under the impression that those $25 googles were tested!! AGH! No, I retract my recommendation to purchase them!

Steve, which ones would you recommend?

I didn't mean to say that goggles were perfect, if that comment was directed at me. Of course they aren't, and I was only saying that they should have to do that to even purchase the diode. Unfortunately, with almost all dangerous devices, it's always up to the end user to be safe and responsible with the device, be it a heavy machine or a 1W laser, they're both incredibly dangerous, and failsafes can be implemented, and always should be, but alas, no system is perfect.

I suppose the best thing to do here is give advise on goggles that will provide good protection against 445 nm. As this wavelength is pretty new, there might be a problem with that. Goggles protecting against 532 green or 405 violet are available, and tested, but we have very little evidence on which goggles protect well against 445 nm.

I would assume that many low-pass goggles intended for protection against 532 and 405 would work fine with 445, but that assumption is by no means a guarantee. If you are concerned with safety, its paramount to offer a solution for protection - which probably boils down to some people here testing various kinds of protective eyewear for 445 nm.

Here you go:

ARG - UV, Blu Ray, Argon, Blue, KTP Green Protection ARG - UV, Blu Ray, Argon, Blue, KTP Green Protection [NR-ARG-EN207] - $78.20



This is just one example, they have several models that would protect against 445nm.

All the safety testing has already been done by real professionals, no need to reinvent the wheel.

At OD8 could you even see the laser AT ALL? lol that could be dangerous in itself

Seconded^^

I was happy when I found out they were available, but I knew at that moment, that such availability would could cause serious problems for the laser hobby.
Thanks for posting here.

I would hate to see flame wars in this thread. So please (and I'm not directing this at any particular person). If you have something you want to say, say it respectfully and remember, its better to be over cautious then then under cautious.(Just My Humble Opinion)

--Hydro15

This what they have on the Dragon Laser's site for the $25 goggles:



It is roughy around 5. However, Steve points out another factor, for how long these goggles will protect. I could not find it.

I'm glad I've seen this thread. Not because I'm not protected eye-wise but I worry for the future. The title of the thread I was thinking of was, "With great power comes great responsibility".

I was going to suggest a measured response to sales too. Thank you Steve, (LSRFAQ), for putting things in far better words than I ever could. How many posts here have demonstrated that some of the general, (largely ignorant), public can not be responsible with a laser? 50mW, 100mW, 250mW.... Whatever the power there is always someone in trouble for it. The genie is out of the bottle with these oh so cheap diodes and as part of this forum I would like to see self imposed restriction on sales. Yes, ebay are going to be offering these, (in a week, two weeks?), but I for one give a pledge right now not to supply a third party with one of these without some sort of framework of decent checks. Heck, I might even limit myself totally to, "consumer". I sold a 20mW argon last week, and still kept banging on about safety, but for the same money it could have been 1/2 a watt! Not from me it won't!

I'm excited about MY new purchases and excited for all the folks here and elsewhere that know and respect the science but I wonder how long it will be before the, (UK), authorities have an issue and I don't look forward to the first news report.

I think there will be repercussions from these diodes and soon. Please be responsible.

M

I'm praying that this is one that Kip Kay stays away from. He should know better after how much he's been raked over the coals...

-Trevor

I totally agree as well about the saftey aspect, however those of us that know how to handle these class IV diodes/lasers responsibly shouldnt have to suffer for those that dont. This is changing history for us, and im thrilled to be a part of it. I also totally agree there should be certain restrictions, however we have been given a golden opportunity, calling casio *could* potentialy ruin this for those that are responsible.
Reading this thread actually killed some of my high hopes for these wonderfull diodes and new technology emerging, we have been playing with 12X class IV's for a while now without 'detrimental' problems, I dont see why it should be much different now(except the price).
With everything LSRFAQ said, I will be saving up to stock up on these blessings of science, before it is made so we cant get them anymore, or for this price. Seriously though, if this becomes a problem, and these diodes get 'changed' to something not so user friendly to us hobbyists, IMO that would be a loss.