Old 06-06-2010, 01:35 AM #1
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Default A Plea for EYE Safety!!

I'm concerned. A one watt laser pointer for less then 200$ is a problem in the hands of those who are immature. If your running a group buy, the repercussions of this are on your heads.

I don't give a damn about lack of enforcement of federal laws in the US or Free Will or Personal Freedom. Let me rephrase that, I do give a damn about my ability to purchase tools, parts, and materials to do my job as a laser professional and my freedom.

In other words, please think twice before you sell blue kits at 200$ or less to some one who lacks maturity. Your shortchanging your own rights in the long run.

The federal government is failing on enforcement to the point that laser safety will pass to the state level, and that would be a non uniform mess. Five years ago this device would have had safeguards to prevent diode removal. It needs to be retrofitted right now to diodes bonded to a sled. That would make it a better projector for its intended use, anyway.

I hate to be a Cassandra (Greek Mythology, look her up) , but I ask
Those of you organizing massive group buys need to think about what your doing and whom your selling to.

At 700mW to 1 watt, injuries will be all too common, and blue has some unique short and long term PROVEN side effects with respect to color vision. Prolonged exposure to intense blue results in diminished green vision. This has been proven in studies of eye surgeons who used blue lasers to treat patients. The green vision comes back somewhat in 3-6 months. The surgeons were exposed to milliwatts at best for 20-40 minute sessions per patient.

Argon multiline blue/green has been largely replaced by green and yellow-green wavelengths for retinal surgery, blue/green was used because it was what was available with the technology of the time. Surgeons have long decried the tissue side effects of blue green, and only in the past 5 years has DPSS made its way into eye surgery.


This blue wavelength has some unique biochemical actions on releasing free radicals, and is strongly adsorbed by red blood cells in capillaries. It causes larger damaged areas in retinal tissue and is far more likely to be adsorbed by the tissue then 532 nm light.

I'm not open to arguments on this one, I've worked with 488 nm light since 1989 or so.

There is no legitimate non military need for a watt of collimated visible light in a hand held device.

You certainly have the right to blow out your own retinas. But when you affect others the game changes.

Blue glare in a aircraft will NOT be a good thing.

Don't even bother to make the lame comments about the poorer beam quality, high divergence, etc.

167 people are looking at this thread as I type. Wait till it gets slashdotted, kipcayed, etc..

It is to the communities advantage to self regulate, restrict buyer age, make buyers sign a warning notice, and to drive the price upwards.

Your new laser regulator will NOT be the CDRH if this gets out of hand. It will be the FAA, US Customs, Homeland Security, and your LOCAL POLICE. FAA had no problems getting a instant moratorium on outdoor laser shows some years ago, and the FAA can and will get enforcement instantly, if this gets out of hand. And it will be a FELONY and CIVIL PENALITES.

Freedom is not free, it comes with great responsibility.


You have been warned. You can also bet I and others will be calling Casio first thing Monday Morning.

Steve



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Old 06-06-2010, 01:39 AM #2
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Default Re: A Plea for EYE Safety!!

Listen to this man. If we aren't careful this could be the beginning of the end for us. Buy goggles. Don't be stupid. Don't buy if you don't know what you are doing. This is not a game. These are now weapons. This shit is for real

Rob
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Old 06-06-2010, 01:40 AM #3
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Default Re: A Plea for EYE Safety!!

Absolutely seconded.
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Old 06-06-2010, 01:44 AM #4
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Default Re: A Plea for EYE Safety!!

I agree wholeheartedly, and you can whine and moan and call me a fuddy-duddy and every other bad name in the book, I don't care. I personally wouldn't sell one of these to anyone unless they answered a short questionnaire and posted a picture of their CERTIFIED goggles of at least OD >5 for this wavelength and a slip of paper with their username and the date on it. If you think it's too much hassle, then you don't deserve the laser to begin with.
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Old 06-06-2010, 01:45 AM #5
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Default Re: A Plea for EYE Safety!!

Completely agree.
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Old 06-06-2010, 01:47 AM #6
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Default Re: A Plea for EYE Safety!!

If a kid ends up with one of these-and ends up getting himself or others hurt- the seller may end up in court--just like selling a gun to a minor-

-Steve knows of what he speaks!!
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Old 06-06-2010, 01:52 AM #7
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Default Re: A Plea for EYE Safety!!

Steve ---

Amen------- Period .....

Wake up dudes and for once read and understand.

HMike
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Old 06-06-2010, 02:00 AM #8
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Default Re: A Plea for EYE Safety!!

This deserves a sticky.
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Old 06-06-2010, 02:01 AM #9
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Default Re: A Plea for EYE Safety!!

I would have no problem if the entirety of this hobby went the way of hobby rocketry.

Any idiot can buy an Estes and launch it in their front yard, and could theoretically hurt themselves with it if they tried, but the Big Boys that are truly dangerous are severely limited and you must be licensed to own/use/build them.

That model sounds fine to me: any idiot can buy a little laser pointer or a little show or whatever, but components that are truly dangerous, that are on the same scale as the big, regulated rocket engines, could be regulated the same way.

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Old 06-06-2010, 02:09 AM #10
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Default Re: A Plea for EYE Safety!!

I fully agree too and I am also concern.

We started talking about the same issue over here: Casio XJ-A130 DLP Projector $689.98 SHIPPED and made some suggestions on how we can educate us on the use of Class 4 lasers.

I also mentioned in my post regarding Building Laser Pointers Using the 455nm Laser Diodes And, please do not try to save money purchasing those cheap sunglasses for $12 that has been talked around here!

Jose
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Last edited by jmgallego; 06-06-2010 at 03:27 AM. Reason: Took out the recommendation for Dragon's Laser's Goggles until determined if they are certified.
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Old 06-06-2010, 02:10 AM #11
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Default Re: A Plea for EYE Safety!!

I don't feel there is much danger HERE on the forum. In fact, if you've been here for any decent amount of time, safety has already been driven into your skull by the vets. Maybe try to avoid selling to VERY new people like those who only join to buy.

I'd be more concerned about COMPANIES and eBay. Here, we respect the hobby, but out there, people are just trying to make a buck.
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Old 06-06-2010, 02:20 AM #12
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Default Re: A Plea for EYE Safety!!

At the powers of these blue diodes, anything less then a OD5 AMERICAN NATIONAL STANDARDS INSTITUTE CERTIFIED AND TESTED GOGGLE IS A SAFETY HAZARD IN ITSELF!! A 25$ safety Google DOES NOT have the testing needed for prolonged use.

IF you are dependent on a pair of Goggles for your eye safety you just FLUNKED laser safety 101. Goggles are designed to be a last resort. True laser safety involves controlling access to the laser light and its scattering.

And don't say to me OD 4 is enough, you need a safety factor in the exposure far beyond the 5 mW of class IIIA, in case the diode exceeds its design power or the goggles have a defect. If it can do 800 mW for N amount of time, it can do 2000 mW for at least a brief time.

In a professional situation, we would enclose this beam, mount it on a optical table below waist height, interlock it to the lab door, terminate it properly, and train the operator. We would also measure the scattering to ensure levels compliant with the ANSI and 21 CFR Rules. It would not be waved around at full power, power would be reduced during adjustment. It would have a safety shutter, and a emission indicator. Training would be documented, and a keyswitch used. If the emission could leave the lab, into a public area, there would be hell to pay! By definition most pointer users take their pointers public.

Untested 25$ goggles are NOT acceptable with these diodes.

Steve

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Old 06-06-2010, 02:22 AM #13
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Default Re: A Plea for EYE Safety!!

Thanks for coming on here from PL to give some of us a wakeup call. I'd imagine that it gets frustrating after a while.

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Old 06-06-2010, 02:28 AM #14
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Default Re: A Plea for EYE Safety!!

Correct, I have been part of this gorup for about two years and working with low power laser since the early 70's. And love this place because I see that repeately we get the strong message about laser safety by vets, yes.

However, once the word goes out that we are sharing instruction on how to build them, it very likely that is going to bring new people who may newer used a laser, much less such powerful laser.

And, yes, there is not much we can do about those "companies" and eBay sellers

Jose

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I don't feel there is much danger HERE on the forum. In fact, if you've been here for any decent amount of time, safety has already been driven into your skull by the vets. Maybe try to avoid selling to VERY new people like those who only join to buy.

I'd be more concerned about COMPANIES and eBay. Here, we respect the hobby, but out there, people are just trying to make a buck.
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Building Laser Pointers Using the 445nm Laser Diodes
Diode Lasers:
405nm: 15 and 35mW built, PHR 405nm, 100mW, Dagin's Dorcy built ~200mW
445nm: Built ~3W and Jayrob Built - 445nm <1W
532nm: 70mW and ~200mW
635/650nm: 200mW, and several builds
Gas Lasers:
337nm: Nitrogen (N2) laser, 3mW, 175uJ/pulse, peak @ 30kW and a 6mW, 260uJ/pulse, peak @ 75kW
632nm: Melles Griot HeNe, 0.5, 1. 0 5 0 and 15. 0mW
Dye Laser(s):

380-~1000nm: Different laser dyes, different wavelenghts, different laser powers.

Crystal Laser:
Holmium YAG (Ho:YAG) laser, 2.1 μm, 53W

Assorted laser accessories, including LPM, optics, and a holography table.

Last edited by jmgallego; 06-06-2010 at 02:59 AM.
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Old 06-06-2010, 02:29 AM #15
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Default Re: A Plea for EYE Safety!!

+rep and a big thank you steve
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Old 06-06-2010, 02:33 AM #16
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Default Re: A Plea for EYE Safety!!

I was under the impression that those $25 googles were tested!! AGH! No, I retract my recommendation to purchase them!

Steve, which ones would you recommend?
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405nm: 15 and 35mW built, PHR 405nm, 100mW, Dagin's Dorcy built ~200mW
445nm: Built ~3W and Jayrob Built - 445nm <1W
532nm: 70mW and ~200mW
635/650nm: 200mW, and several builds
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632nm: Melles Griot HeNe, 0.5, 1. 0 5 0 and 15. 0mW
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380-~1000nm: Different laser dyes, different wavelenghts, different laser powers.

Crystal Laser:
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LinkBack to this Thread: http://laserpointerforums.com/f65/plea-eye-safety-51464.html
Posted By For Type Date
A plea for safety, pl edition. - Page 13 This thread Refback 09-16-2012 01:07 PM
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xkcd &bull; View topic - 1 W laser pointer hits the market. This thread Refback 02-18-2011 03:24 AM
LEDs & 'Blue Glare' & Eye damage This thread Refback 02-11-2011 10:59 PM
Wicked Lasers' new 1 W laser pointer hits the market This thread Refback 02-08-2011 07:15 PM










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