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Old 08-12-2015, 02:50 AM #433
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

Yes its called an Electronic Load. I understand that. But what iam trying to say is and maybe iam not explaining it clearly enough or your confusing the 2 of what iam saying but the voltage at Different loads will give you More Sag/Less run time. Iam Talking on the laser driver side of things. Not a Discharge of Just the cell at a CC load in the graphs.

Iam talking on the Laser side of things. Some times these testers post actual load voltage results but they usually do it at ~ 2-3V of LED's. I dint see the Graph of it.. You overlooked where i said sometimes they post the load voltage and asked Unless i missed it?..

Thats what i was saying. You are confusing the actually charts that are posted to the One iam talking about that is Missing, that sometime they show.

Funny.


Edit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minamoto Kobayashi View Post
Ehm ... what a bee nest
I asked this not to know how much will be the working time for every charge,
but if the diode output power will be affected.
Since I use laser not more than 2-3 minutes each session, I do not care how much charge will be left in the cell, since I recharge it every time that I use a laser in my collection.
My main concern is: I have a 6+W diode, that it is capable to reach near 7W when connected to a lab power supply (DTR rulez ) .. so, it is capable to reach the same performances with a "common" 18650 non-protected genuine 3400 mAh Panasonic, or it needs a IMR cell?

x Jander6442: Solder blob .. but LOOOOL !!!

Just Use IMR. You cant go wrong with IMR. It will work just fine.


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Old 08-12-2015, 08:53 AM #434
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazeerer View Post
The 14AWG wire IIRC is Good for ~60A.
Not really; 60A is the point where it bursts into flames. Bear in mind they will generate 10 times the heat at 60A as they do at 20A. If you're wiring a house or using it in an extension cord, the NEC allows 14awg for a 15A circuit. This is fairly conservative, and in my opinion it is okay operating at up to 30A or so, depending on if you can tolerate the extra heat and voltage drop.

Choosing a wire size depends on your design parameters. If you're okay with higher voltage drops and additional heat, smaller wire is fine. Most people seem to be content with pushing current just below the flash-point of the insulation, but wire is freely available from old electronics, so I don't see the need

Flexible wire is generally used where the wire will be... flexed often. So I also don't quite understand why people use it for something that is flexed once.
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Old 08-12-2015, 02:26 PM #435
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
Not really; 60A is the point where it bursts into flames. Bear in mind they will generate 10 times the heat at 60A as they do at 20A. If you're wiring a house or using it in an extension cord, the NEC allows 14awg for a 15A circuit. This is fairly conservative, and in my opinion it is okay operating at up to 30A or so, depending on if you can tolerate the extra heat and voltage drop.

Choosing a wire size depends on your design parameters. If you're okay with higher voltage drops and additional heat, smaller wire is fine. Most people seem to be content with pushing current just below the flash-point of the insulation, but wire is freely available from old electronics, so I don't see the need

Flexible wire is generally used where the wire will be... flexed often. So I also don't quite understand why people use it for something that is flexed once.
I think because it's a little more forgiving on solder joints once your stuffing the bits back together.
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Old 08-12-2015, 03:23 PM #436
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jander6442 View Post
I think because it's a little more forgiving on solder joints once your stuffing the bits back together.
Exactly. Stiffer wire will cause more stress on solder joints in tight fit scenarios, which can occur quite often when trying to stuff drivers and wires into small handhelds.
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Old 08-12-2015, 06:22 PM #437
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

if flexibility is your concern just get 10ga silicone wire (or what ever gauge you need)

http://www.amazon.com/10-Gauge-Silic.../dp/B007DMW3IU

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Old 08-12-2015, 08:39 PM #438
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicrox View Post
Driving my NUBM44 @ 5.0 amps to the diode with NCR18650B 3400mah 2-3 month old batteries at an average 4.0 volts each.
First with 2 NCR batteries in series then 4 NCR batteries in series parallel.
If anyone has actual under load numbers with IMR cells I would like to know the difference driving these bigger diodes.
With 2 NCR's the drop was from 8.1v to 7.25
With 4 NCR's the drop was from 8.0v to 7.63
I have wanted to buy some of the 35A rated IMR Efest batteries but they are Chinese so..... Anyone have any tests with the NUBM44?
Also I wonder about the longevity of the IMREN IMR Efest Chinese batteries.
Attached Thumbnails
NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode-2ncroff.jpg   NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode-2ncron.jpg   NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode-4ncroff.jpg   NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode-4ncron.jpg  

Last edited by RedCowboy; 08-12-2015 at 08:48 PM.
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Old 08-12-2015, 09:26 PM #439
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minamoto Kobayashi View Post
Ehm ... what a bee nest
I asked this not to know how much will be the working time for every charge,
but if the diode output power will be affected.
Since I use laser not more than 2-3 minutes each session, I do not care how much charge will be left in the cell, since I recharge it every time that I use a laser in my collection.
My main concern is: I have a 6+W diode, that it is capable to reach near 7W when connected to a lab power supply (DTR rulez ) .. so, it is capable to reach the same performances with a "common" 18650 non-protected genuine 3400 mAh Panasonic, or it needs a IMR cell?

x Jander6442: Solder blob .. but LOOOOL !!!
What kind of driver? I don't think a boost will work properly with a single Panasonic. If it's a buck it might work properly with two in series.
Either way it's a toll on the lifetime of your batts. Even more so if you charge them every time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazeerer View Post
Yes its called an Electronic Load. I understand that. But what iam trying to say is and maybe iam not explaining it clearly enough or your confusing the 2 of what iam saying but the voltage at Different loads will give you More Sag/Less run time. Iam Talking on the laser driver side of things. Not a Discharge of Just the cell at a CC load in the graphs.

Iam talking on the Laser side of things. Some times these testers post actual load voltage results but they usually do it at ~ 2-3V of LED's. I dint see the Graph of it.. You overlooked where i said sometimes they post the load voltage and asked Unless i missed it?..

Thats what i was saying. You are confusing the actually charts that are posted to the One iam talking about that is Missing, that sometime they show.

Funny.
Yeah, I thought you were talking of the same graphs. Miscommunication ;P
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Old 08-12-2015, 10:49 PM #440
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

I was about to order some IMR cells, but after the Red Cowboy post, and after what I read here:

What exactly does "IMR" mean?

I decided to use again my good genuine Panasonic with my "old" lasers!

x Atomicrox:

I have about 14 lasers, everyone with Panasonic 18650 3400 mAh, but I never used boost drivers. I used only buck drivers. And every laser use two cells in series. I have also powerful flashlights, with two cells in series and two in parallel.
I'm in doubt if to buy or not the Sony VT5 IMR for my new NUBM44 @ 5.0, since I will play on the edge of the minimum voltage input suggested (SXD driver need at least 7V, while the Redcowboy' tests show 7.25 under load. I have a pair of new Panasonic ready to be used, so I do not want to buy other cells without a valid reason. I want only to reach the max output power from my new diode. If the classic Panasonic could compromise this, then I surely will buy a pair o Sony VT5! Any suggestion?
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Old 08-12-2015, 10:53 PM #441
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

You have an LPM, so go ahead and test it out It's likely to work, but will kill your cells fast.
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low 520nm: MXDL pen by DTR (31.6mW pk|28.8mW avg)
high 520nm: Laserlands (8mW avg)
532nm: NewWish (28.6mW pk|26.8mW avg|10mW rtd) | Dapper (30.3mW pk) | Classic (120.0mW pk|103.1mW avg|100mW rtd) | "The Green Box" by Atomic (176.7mW pk|140.0mW avg)
589nm: Spartan from Dragon Lasers (58.4mW pk|37mW avg|50mW rtd)
632.8nm: HeNe pointer by Atomic (0.68mW rtd)
635nm: NewWish (4.6mW avg|5mW rtd)
638nm: Classic from Lazerer (409.3mW pk|389.4mW avg|415mW rtd)
650nm: NewWish (10.6mW pk|5mW rtd) | Dilda (216.3mW avg|200mW rtd)
685nm: laser-in-a-box by Atomic (30.4mW pk|29.3mW avg) | 501B by Atomic (32.4mW avg)
780nm: module (2.7mW avg|5mW rtd)
808nm: Classic modded from a 532nm (162mW avg)
850nm: module (8.8mW avg|7mW rtd)
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Old 08-12-2015, 11:08 PM #442
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

LOL yes in fact I checked that all my lasers are at the best of their performances with Panasonic 18650 3400 mAh, but this last one is very current hungry ...
Do You suggest IMR AW or IMR SONY VT5?
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Old 08-12-2015, 11:12 PM #443
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

The only IMRs I have are a pair of Efest 18350. Can't help you with that.
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Old 08-12-2015, 11:15 PM #444
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
Not really; 60A is the point where it bursts into flames. Bear in mind they will generate 10 times the heat at 60A as they do at 20A. If you're wiring a house or using it in an extension cord, the NEC allows 14awg for a 15A circuit. This is fairly conservative, and in my opinion it is okay operating at up to 30A or so, depending on if you can tolerate the extra heat and voltage drop.

Choosing a wire size depends on your design parameters. If you're okay with higher voltage drops and additional heat, smaller wire is fine. Most people seem to be content with pushing current just below the flash-point of the insulation, but wire is freely available from old electronics, so I don't see the need

Flexible wire is generally used where the wire will be... flexed often. So I also don't quite understand why people use it for something that is flexed once.
How can you say that it is indeed the Flash Point of my wire and with the application we are using it as.? Are you sure.? Not all 14awg wire is equal right.? Are you talking about just standard wiring.? Maybe the standard PVC low strand count 14awg wire that your running 20,30,60+ feet of in a house that would fall true and your right but when it comes to high strand count wire some 14awg wire can handle alot more current with much higher temperature then others or any awg for that matter especially is Short lengths. No?

Does the voltage load matter too.? Iam sure it does.

I Cant even answer this question because i dont know what the max flash point is of the 14awg wire iam using to say if your right or wrong. i bought it from ebay and the wire says 200C on it. At the very least its not getting anywhere close to 200C under mu conditions.

The Most Ive ever ran through it as a straight connection from diode supply to a 2.5V diode was 40A no clips. It got a little warmer then it did at 20A but far from flash point as i could still handle it just fine. I dont see an extra 10-20A making that much of a huge difference to catch fire to it in my case. So IMO 60A is not the Flash point of this wire that i have but i could be wrong. Maybe under certain condition it is but not under mine.

None the less i keep it to Max 20A with no higher then a 12-15V load for the most part... SO iam fine. But i have used it in place for my Tiapan lasers a couple times and it works Just fine. I think it all depends on the length and the specific wire you are using in which you can get away with using higher awg.

Iam curious though now that you mentioned this too get the answer. Been trying to find the manf of this wire with no luck. Got any ideas.? Its the Silicone 14awg wire you can get on ebay.

As for why use Silicone wire. I use flexible silicone wire over stuff like PVC wire because PVC wire melts with the Iron, its thicker and its harder to form into tight place and puts pressure on unwanted areas like diode pins.When using flexible silicone wire there is less risk of breaking a diode pin, ripping off a pad on the board and much easier to work with. Higher strand count too is a plus. Also Silicone wire has a Much higher temperature rating. Its also just about the same price in the bulk amount that i would buy so i prefer it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Minamoto Kobayashi View Post
LOL yes in fact I checked that all my lasers are at the best of their performances with Panasonic 18650 3400 mAh, but this last one is very current hungry ...
Do You suggest IMR AW or IMR SONY VT5?
The SXD can go down to 6.8V ~5A/5V load on the output. As i mentioned above Using Higher Mah cells vs IMR lower Mah cells comes out to be right about the same thing. But IMR cells are "Safer" since they can Handle more currant.

The Higher Mah cells Sag More
Vs
The IMR Lower Mah cells that dont Sag as much.

So to keep it short and sweet the cancel themselves out to basically being about the same run time when your talking about high current. Its Just the IMR cells Can handle more current so your not beating on them as much or getting them warmed up due to the internal resistance.

I stay away from VTC5 cells. There is alot of Fakes going around. Please search VTC5 fakes.

People say that they are still being made but IDK. Get HE2 cells. They are more then enough then what you would need.
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Old 08-13-2015, 01:25 AM #445
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

Making plans to Jump on board with one of these builds. Great info listed about batteries and earlier with the spectrograph results. Aside from a little drama this has been a good thread.

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Old 08-13-2015, 08:02 AM #446
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazeerer View Post
How can you say that it is indeed the Flash Point of my wire and with the application we are using it as.?
No, it was hyperbole. 60A is a LOT for 14awg though. I'll take a video of 60A through 14awg when I get back to the states if I remember. I'm pretty sure it'll get floppy and start smoking.

Remember, wire insulation also insulates against heat. So you cannot feel the real temperature of the copper. Running the wire at obscene loads may not instantly smoke the insulation, but it WILL degrade it over time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazeerer View Post
...especially is Short lengths.
The length only affects the voltage drop (and parasitic inductance, etc.). The heat per unit length will remain the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazeerer View Post
but when it comes to high strand count wire some 14awg wire can handle alot more current
No. Strand count has no effect on the current carrying capability. The AWG number is a measurement of the cross-sectional area of the copper, and therefore the resistance per unit length.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazeerer View Post
Does the voltage load matter too.? Iam sure it does.
Wrong. It has zero effect. The equation is power(heat)=IČR. R is the resistance of the wire which is a constant, and I is the current through the wire. This means if you double the current, you get 4 times the heating. If you triple the current, you get 9 times the heating.

The leads to a 600V 10A load will have identical wire heating profile as that of a 2V 10A load.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazeerer View Post
None the less i keep it to Max 20A with no higher then a 12-15V load for the most part... SO iam fine.
Yep.

The voltage rating depends on the insulation type and the insulation thickness. Most insulation is rated for 300V or 600V. Some very small wires in data cables might have insulation only rated for 30V. Basically any 14awg wire will be rated for at least 300V.

That being said, it's a VERY conservative rating. 300V is tested to withstand 3kV, and 30V is tested to withstand >1kV. Actual instantaneous breakdown voltages will be much higher than this, still.

I worked on an extrusion line in a custom wire factory for 3 years. I know a thing or two.
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Old 08-14-2015, 04:09 AM #447
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

Yup ... surfing a lot among the specialized forums, I have found those two pearls:

https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/...-rechargeable?

https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/...-3-6v-3000mah?

.. and those are the performances, almost identical:



I'm in doubt which cells to buy. Any suggestion? I will buy both ??
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Old 08-14-2015, 02:21 PM #448
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

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I'm in doubt which cells to buy. Any suggestion? I will buy both ??
If I may add on to this Question, did we determine that 4 18650s in series/parallel would be best or 2 26650s?
I'm also on the hunt.
With a current draw like these diodes have a hefty switch is going to have to be in order.
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