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Old 08-11-2015, 11:04 AM #417
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

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Originally Posted by DutchLaser View Post
I have a question about wavelength...
I have my personal test results posted earlier in the thread. Maybe you can't view photobucket links, so here's a dropbox link instead.



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Old 08-11-2015, 12:29 PM #418
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

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Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
I finally de-canned the NUMB44 diode I had with a window problem today, it doesn't want to put out more than about 5.75 watts through a S1 lens, backing it down to about 4.5 amps produces about 5.5 watts out of the lens. I was trying to put it in a host today but the 5000 mA SXD driver I bought would not adjust over about 3.5 amps, then the metal top of the adjustment resistor fell off, Arg!! It's so tiny I can't see how to fix it, I probably wrecked it pushing on it too hard trying to reach higher than 3.5 A where it hit the stop, or maybe I just pushed too hard lacking the right sized tool. Would be nice if they came with a proper sized adjustment tool. Anyone have a tip for me how to rescue this driver less installing a new pot??

The output power meas. at 4.5 amps was when later running the de-canned diode off of a CC lab power supply. A peek at my small laser test setup below:

Pic

Pic

This photo is a mock-up without taped wires... During testing the driver did not get hot, the small copper heat sink probably isn't enough for a duty cycle of more than a few seconds so I kept the amount of on time to short tests..

Note: ALL driver adjustments were small & made with power OFF, then turning back on to see the new LD current level. Both diode and driver heat sinked, only running long enough each time to get a laser power output measurement and turning back off before adjusting again. Power on-off was through pushing a momentary on-off switch feeding the driver input, not turning the power supply off and on which could easily destroy the diode through power up spikes. One member advised against inserting a DMM in series with one of the laser diode leads to measure the current as he believes this can cause problems.... so maybe that isn't the way to do this. I do have a diode tester, just have to take it out of the box and use it.

Your issue is the way you where trying to set the driver and all your connections. Your DMM leads or leads you where using are way to long and the connection is not good. This is why you could not get over 3.5A

With today's drivers of High Current settings of ~5A the most easiest way to set the driver around this current is to only use a 1 ohm resistor across the LD-/+ as the load to set the driver. No diodes on your testload should be used as on most testloads that people use on this forum the load will become too high at thease currents.(Most Common Testloads that use 1ohm resistors that is..)

A 1 ohm resistor will give you ~4.5V-5V at ~5A.... So the best way to set the driver is use a 1 ohm resistor with Short leads and thats it... Its perfect for these diodes since these diodes also putout a load of 4.5V-5V.

Those leads coming off the driver (Look like 22AWG) in your image would be perfect alone. Nothing longer then that. With 22AWG wire you should not have longer then ~6-8" inches of wire going from the Driver to the diode. The shorter the better.

So if you have a High wattage 1ohm resistor just solder that only (No Laser diode connected) across the LD-/+ output of the Driver then Take your DMM and put it on 20V DC and attach your DMM leads across the 1 ohm resistor. (Make sure to not be in 10A setting.) Then Adj the pot to the current you want.

Thats all you got to do.

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PM incoming about the broken Pot for replacment..
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Old 08-11-2015, 03:56 PM #419
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

Thanks, last night DTR had told me not to use the current meter inserted in series with the output of the driver, but I didn't fully understand why until now. I've never really liked the 22 ga. wire used on this high current diode, if the gauge is increased to something bigger I could have more lead length and not have to worry about anything else, right? Only problem is the hole in the back side of the module the diode is mounted in is too small for much larger wire to fit through. I've asked DTR if he can sell me some copper back sides to the module with a bigger hole so I can use some much larger diameter wire, but this is as big as he has. I can always drill it out bigger though

I will get a large 10 watt 5% 1 ohm resistor and measure the voltage across it to set the current, I = E/R. I probably should have figured this problem out on my own, I have a degree in electronics and have worked as a technician for most of my 35 year career in telecommunications, duh...

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Old 08-11-2015, 05:06 PM #420
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

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Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
Only problem is the hole in the back side of the module the diode is mounted in is too small for much larger wire to fit through. I've asked DTR if he can sell me some copper back sides to the module with a bigger hole so I can use some much larger diameter wire, but this is as big as he has. I can always drill it out bigger though
No need to drill. On these diodes and the NDB7A75 I have been using the new FP 22 gauge wire which fits fine through the back of the module and is more than capable of handling the current these diodes can take.
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Old 08-11-2015, 05:45 PM #421
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

But, if I want to make the leads extra long, I will need to use larger diameter wire. I realize the rating of the wires current handling ability without too much voltage drop is fine with the 22 ga. wire, I just like larger diameter wire, for example, when wanting an extra long run on the bench.

One example is a three diode laser pointer I have with three individual on-off switches, because of the extra long assembly of switches between the battery and the head, my leads are like six to eight inches long to each driver and a few more inches from the drivers to the diodes. The voltage drop for 5 amps through six inches of 22 ga wire is less than 1/10th of a volt, or less than 1% when using two Li-ion's @ 8.4V, not a real problem but sometimes it's not about what you really need, but what you like
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Old 08-11-2015, 10:37 PM #422
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
Thanks, last night DTR had told me not to use the current meter inserted in series with the output of the driver, but I didn't fully understand why until now. I've never really liked the 22 ga. wire used on this high current diode, if the gauge is increased to something bigger I could have more lead length and not have to worry about anything else, right? Only problem is the hole in the back side of the module the diode is mounted in is too small for much larger wire to fit through. I've asked DTR if he can sell me some copper back sides to the module with a bigger hole so I can use some much larger diameter wire, but this is as big as he has. I can always drill it out bigger though

I will get a large 10 watt 5% 1 ohm resistor and measure the voltage across it to set the current, I = E/R. I probably should have figured this problem out on my own, I have a degree in electronics and have worked as a technician for most of my 35 year career in telecommunications, duh...

Gold Newton&apos;s Aluminum Case Resistors 10W Power 1 Ohm 5 GBW | eBay

The 22AWG wire from FP fits perfect through the modules solid backs or the standard module back half's. This is how i solder my 22AWG wire to the Pins. Its not the best picture as i dont have my good camera back yet but it will do. You can see i solder my leads On the Inside of the pins not the outside which makes it fit very nice on the 44 and 7A75 diodes.


Then I just add Flaminpyro's Yellow Heat shrink which i find to shrink the thinest on both of the pins and iam done.. Its a Nice fit with room.

If you want to use Lower Gauge Wire that is Not a problem. Solder the 22AWG wire from the diode pins and have it about 2-3" long. "Just enough to stick out the back of the Module back half for you to solder too" Then solder your lower gauge wire to it... The problem is if you where to use the 22AWG wire the entire distance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
But, if I want to make the leads extra long, I will need to use larger diameter wire. I realize the rating of the wires current handling ability without too much voltage drop is fine with the 22 ga. wire, I just like larger diameter wire, for example, when wanting an extra long run on the bench.

One example is a three diode laser pointer I have with three individual on-off switches, because of the extra long assembly of switches between the battery and the head, my leads are like six to eight inches long to each driver and a few more inches from the drivers to the diodes. The voltage drop for 5 amps through six inches of 22 ga wire is less than 1/10th of a volt, or less than 1% when using two Li-ion's @ 8.4V, not a real problem but sometimes it's not about what you really need, but what you like

Just like i mentioned above. For what your trying to do The problem is if you where to use the 22AWG wire or Higher the entire distance which would cause the issue with current handling. If you run thicker wire up to the 22AWG wire it be like your connecting it right at the supply more or less with out getting to technical. So you will be fine doing that.


Here is an Example of my leads off my supply. I custom made them myself because i could not find anything remotely as nice.

I use these wire cables i made to run up to the diode+ its leads. In other words I use the 14AWG wire and its clips to connect to the short <8" 22AWG wire leads that is connecting to the diode to test this 44 Diode.

I use 14AWG wire with 40AMP Copper Clips. The Wire is 5 feet long I have several sets i made and i use this particular ones ive made only for my 5A,10A,20A Supplies:




The 14AWG wire IIRC is Good for ~60A. Over Kill you would think but not really. When iam running 20A through it at ~2.5V it starts to get warm and so do the clips if i run it a extensive period of time.

On my 40A Opto Power supply I use 10AWG wire and 80A "IIRC" Clips. Still gets warm at 40A ~2.5V.

On My Tiapan Coherent Uses 2x 8AWG silicone wire in parallel on each +/-..

Going over the top here. But what iam trying to say is If you want to use Lower gauge wire then just use the 22AWG wire just to connect to the diode No longer then 6-8 inches or just about. Then run your thicker wire to that and you will be just fine.

For your 3 diode build. What you describe if i understand correct is you have 6-8 inches on the Input V-/+ going from the cells to your switch then the driver, then you have another few inches Going from LD+/- of the driver to the diode.? If that is correct then that will be just fine with 22AWG with a Buck driver. Your Limitations here is Not the Wire but your switches and how your battery is making connection.

Since its a 3 diode build. You will be drawing ~10A or a little more Under load from your cells when having all 3 On. But because all are using there own wires it wont be a problem with 22AWG. But as i mentioned you limitation here would be your switches and the way your battery connection is and also host resistance. Grab some IMR cells HE2's would be a Great choose as i would not recommend anything else but IMR in this build.


Build sound crazy. Looking forward to seeing this monster.

What i mentioned above only applies for Buck. Not Boost. Thats a Different ball game with way more current draw.
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Old 08-11-2015, 11:31 PM #423
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

Sorry to go slightly off-topic, but since we are talking about amps and the most suitable cables, I was thinking about the cells that usually we use with ours portable high-powered lasers: the genuine green Panasonic 18650 3400 mAh cells.
So, while we use the right cables to handle the high current, someone know exactly what is the max amp drain that those cells are capable?
If those cells cannot sustain 5+ amp draining, it is pointless to use bigger cables in ours drivers!
Someone has told me that the unprotected version of those green cells can reach 9 amps drain .. it can be true?
I also found 10A, 20A and 30A hi-drain cells, made especially for the e-cigs, but they have, of course, less capacity (2400-2600 mAh).
So my question is: it is better to have 2x18650 3400 mAh unprotected cells with unknown draining amp value, or 2x18650 2600 mAh protected cells with certified 30A max draining?

This is an italian site with a lot of hi-draining cells where usually I buy very good cells:

BATTERIE - EUROLED - Olight Technology Authorized Distributor

They have the 30A draining cells!
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Last edited by Minamoto Kobayashi; 08-11-2015 at 11:33 PM.
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Old 08-11-2015, 11:48 PM #424
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

Hey Angelos, my 44 build is drawing 9A at start up with the tailcap current test then drops to 8.3A stays stable although I have only run a couple minutes at a time I had to change out the switch and used a silver plated spring from a MOD kit. So basically you were right on I must have overlooked Cyp's graph makes sense really pushing that SXB and the cell and the switch.

Definitely had to use IMR cell 26650
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Old 08-12-2015, 12:35 AM #425
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minamoto Kobayashi View Post
Sorry to go slightly off-topic, but since we are talking about amps and the most suitable cables, I was thinking about the cells that usually we use with ours portable high-powered lasers: the genuine green Panasonic 18650 3400 mAh cells.
So, while we use the right cables to handle the high current, someone know exactly what is the max amp drain that those cells are capable?
If those cells cannot sustain 5+ amp draining, it is pointless to use bigger cables in ours drivers!
Someone has told me that the unprotected version of those green cells can reach 9 amps drain .. it can be true?
I also found 10A, 20A and 30A hi-drain cells, made especially for the e-cigs, but they have, of course, less capacity (2400-2600 mAh).
So my question is: it is better to have 2x18650 3400 mAh unprotected cells with unknown draining amp value, or 2x18650 2600 mAh protected cells with certified 30A max draining?

This is an italian site with a lot of hi-draining cells where usually I buy very good cells:

BATTERIE - EUROLED - Olight Technology Authorized Distributor

They have the 30A draining cells!
The 3400mah cells are 6.8A rated discharge MAX. But that doesn't mean it can do 6.8A @ all loads. The Higher the Load voltage the more it sags and less it can do. As in you loose capacity because of the sag.

I would not use these for this diode.

5A @ 5V forget it. They will sag in the low 3V's under load.LOL

These cells are good for Low Current boost of 1.5A or less and Buck driver for 3A or less Output current. Or draw ~ 2-3A. You will get some good capacity out of them. But even 3A draw. at 3.7V the sag too much. So if the driver doesn't have a high switch it wont be able to do it and if it does you would be beating on that cell.

For High Current Boost and High Current Buck driver I like to use IMR HE2 cells or other IMR cells only.

At the end of the day they might have higher mah rating but they sag More with higher voltage loads.
The IMR cells might have Lower mah rating but they dont sag nearly close to as much. Id take my IMR's over any other cell on high current.

It pretty much turns out to be minutes differences or even seconds in some cases.

Iam sure someone can do the math out but what they cant factor in is every different host,switch wires that people are using. So it will be different for everyone.

The bottom line is when your talking about high current your talking little time difference between high Mah cells and IMR low Mah cells. Id rather be more safe with IMR.


For these 44 diodes whether you go with Buck or boost IMO IMR is what i use.

Check out candlepowerforum. They have done some good testing on cells.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jander6442 View Post
Hey Angelos, my 44 build is drawing 9A at start up with the tailcap current test then drops to 8.3A stays stable although I have only run a couple minutes at a time I had to change out the switch and used a silver plated spring from a MOD kit. So basically you were right on I must have overlooked Cyp's graph makes sense really pushing that SXB and the cell and the switch.

Definitely had to use IMR cell 26650
Yeah boost drivers are really current hungry. If you where drawing 9A your cell/build was causing it to sag the cell to ~3.3V. As at 3.3V thats when you should be drawing ~9A. You should be at ~7A with a fresh cell. How is it with the IMR.?

I think your host is also causing some Resistance and or other connections maybe even the anodizing on the threads. Try cleaning it up. Yeah some switchs can take it but other cant. its weired. I have some 2A switchs that have no problem doing 5A+ out of them. If you where using your DMM to test the Tail cap did you use short beefy leads.? If not try it with Heavy short leads. Should draw much less.

IMR is the what to go for High Current boost thats for sure. But the 32650 cell should have been OK. Maybe as you said it was old.

What are you using for your + contact..? email pic's.
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Old 08-12-2015, 01:12 AM #426
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minamoto Kobayashi View Post
Sorry to go slightly off-topic, but since we are talking about amps and the most suitable cables, I was thinking about the cells that usually we use with ours portable high-powered lasers: the genuine green Panasonic 18650 3400 mAh cells.
So, while we use the right cables to handle the high current, someone know exactly what is the max amp drain that those cells are capable?
If those cells cannot sustain 5+ amp draining, it is pointless to use bigger cables in ours drivers!
Someone has told me that the unprotected version of those green cells can reach 9 amps drain .. it can be true?
I also found 10A, 20A and 30A hi-drain cells, made especially for the e-cigs, but they have, of course, less capacity (2400-2600 mAh).
So my question is: it is better to have 2x18650 3400 mAh unprotected cells with unknown draining amp value, or 2x18650 2600 mAh protected cells with certified 30A max draining?

This is an italian site with a lot of hi-draining cells where usually I buy very good cells:

BATTERIE - EUROLED - Olight Technology Authorized Distributor

They have the 30A draining cells!
Test of Panasonic NCR18650B 3400mAh (Green)
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Old 08-12-2015, 01:27 AM #427
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

Although this is some Great info it doesn't tell you at what load voltage the tests where done at and that is very important. Unless i missed it.?

More then likely it was done at a load voltage of ~2.5V. Not 5V. So you have to take that into account that its far worse result with a 5V load. You can pretty much double it for a 5V load at 5A. Some test results people show the load voltage they did the test at but usually they do the test for LEDs that are around 2V-3V.
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Old 08-12-2015, 01:35 AM #428
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

What do you mean by load voltage? The load voltage is always (necessarily) the cell voltage under sag (Y axis on his graphs). You can't draw 5V from a single Li-ion no matter what...
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Old 08-12-2015, 01:52 AM #429
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazeerer View Post
The 3400mah cells are 6.8A rated discharge MAX. But that doesn't mean it can do 6.8A @ all loads. The Higher the Load voltage the more it sags and less it can do. As in you loose capacity because of the sag.

I would not use these for this diode.

5A @ 5V forget it. They will sag in the low 3V's under load.LOL

These cells are good for Low Current boost of 1.5A or less and Buck driver for 3A or less Output current. Or draw ~ 2-3A. You will get some good capacity out of them. But even 3A draw. at 3.7V the sag too much. So if the driver doesn't have a high switch it wont be able to do it and if it does you would be beating on that cell.

For High Current Boost and High Current Buck driver I like to use IMR HE2 cells or other IMR cells only.

At the end of the day they might have higher mah rating but they sag More with higher voltage loads.
The IMR cells might have Lower mah rating but they dont sag nearly close to as much. Id take my IMR's over any other cell on high current.

It pretty much turns out to be minutes differences or even seconds in some cases.

Iam sure someone can do the math out but what they cant factor in is every different host,switch wires that people are using. So it will be different for everyone.

The bottom line is when your talking about high current your talking little time difference between high Mah cells and IMR low Mah cells. Id rather be more safe with IMR.


For these 44 diodes whether you go with Buck or boost IMO IMR is what i use.

Check out candlepowerforum. They have done some good testing on cells.



Yeah boost drivers are really current hungry. If you where drawing 9A your cell/build was causing it to sag the cell to ~3.3V. As at 3.3V thats when you should be drawing ~9A. You should be at ~7A with a fresh cell. How is it with the IMR.?

I think your host is also causing some Resistance and or other connections maybe even the anodizing on the threads. Try cleaning it up. Yeah some switchs can take it but other cant. its weired. I have some 2A switchs that have no problem doing 5A+ out of them. If you where using your DMM to test the Tail cap did you use short beefy leads.? If not try it with Heavy short leads. Should draw much less.

IMR is the what to go for High Current boost thats for sure. But the 32650 cell should have been OK. Maybe as you said it was old.

What are you using for your + contact..? email pic's.
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Old 08-12-2015, 01:58 AM #430
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

He left out the important part of what the load voltage was at the Current's he was testing at. He is Saying in his Graph That with 5A Currant load the Cell is Sagging ~3.9V but he dint tell us what the 5A load voltage was at.. 3V 5V 10V etc.

A 2V 5A load will give you more run time and not sag as much compared to a 5V 5A load which would Give you far less run time and sag much more.

If you run the test at these 2 different load voltages you would get different results.


You need to know what the load voltage is to not just the current. Without it you dont know what the test was done at and how long the cell can really last for and how low it really can sag.


Without knowing what the actual load voltage is it doesn't really help much.

This is why for example a 3V laser diode at 5A will give you more battery life and not sag as much as a 5V laser diode at 5A would.

he does not mention the load voltage that he discharge his cell at. he left that part out.

It matters.

If it dint then you could put any load you want on any cell and it can do it.

He dint tell us what his electronic load was set for the discharge. Only told us the Current. You can set the discharge as high as you want to set it too.
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Last edited by lazeerer; 08-12-2015 at 02:03 AM.
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Old 08-12-2015, 02:09 AM #431
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

Those tests are not meant for lasers. I don't even think he used a "normal" load in the sense of a driver or LED or resistor. He probably connected it to a tool that pulls a constant current.

You're thinking in terms of output current from the driver (diode current), to apply the data of those graphs you have to think in terms of input current to the drivers (tailcap current in our lasers).
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Last edited by Atomicrox; 08-12-2015 at 02:10 AM.
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Old 08-12-2015, 02:36 AM #432
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

Ehm ... what a bee nest
I asked this not to know how much will be the working time for every charge,
but if the diode output power will be affected.
Since I use laser not more than 2-3 minutes each session, I do not care how much charge will be left in the cell, since I recharge it every time that I use a laser in my collection.
My main concern is: I have a 6+W diode, that it is capable to reach near 7W when connected to a lab power supply (DTR rulez ) .. so, it is capable to reach the same performances with a "common" 18650 non-protected genuine 3400 mAh Panasonic, or it needs a IMR cell?

x Jander6442: Solder blob .. but LOOOOL !!!
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