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Old 07-26-2015, 12:51 AM #337
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

It's a shame when expressing ones fears or sharing ones ideas makes that person feel uncomfortable, that's one reason I've been a long time reader and not a commenter. But fear not my friends for the filtering down of already existing technology into the affordable mainstream has already taken place. What not long ago cost thousands of dollars is now available turn key for 39 bucks. The truth is the poop storm is coming and we free people will have to stand up and demand that we are not all treated like children/criminals just because of a fraction of a percent who can't be trusted with sharp sticks, kitchen knives, baseball bats, guns, cars or butterball turkeys. We must insist that criminal acts be punished, not the implements employed in criminal acts. I am a free American and I will drive to the store in my car, eat my butterball turkey with my fork and knife and play baseball with my bat. You can bet I will raise a hundred dollars worth of hell if anyone trys to ban my butterball turkey or tell me I am not allowed to use my kitchen knife in my workshop/garden.
Yes we have the responsibility to promote safety among our fellow hobbyist, but if we are afraid to be then we won't be. We can not be the land of the free if we are not the home of the brave. This is no longer a rich mans hobby. Affordable firearms are still for sale at the show only because we fight for our freedom with the strength of our numbers, in England a custom shotgun can cost 50,000 pounds if you can get a permit to buy one. We may need to form the National Laser Association in the time ahead because all around the world direct energy is taking root, its on the ships, the tanks, the planes/drones and in the soldiers hands. It is the evolution of kinetic energy and the two will eventually fall into the same category like it or not. If we allow limits and conditions then kiss it goodbye unless you are one of the wealthy permitted few and even then you will only be allowed very little. I feel like this needed to be said as I fear some of you will fall prey to the idea that limits are a good idea or the 'we need to exclude the noobs ' for our safety. WRONG! We need to embrace the noobs, teach them and stand together as one.....or we will fall



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Old 07-26-2015, 01:02 AM #338
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedCowboy View Post
It's a shame when expressing ones fears or sharing ones ideas makes that person feel uncomfortable, that's one reason I've been a long time reader and not a commenter. But fear not my friends for the filtering down of already existing technology into the affordable mainstream has already taken place. What not long ago cost thousands of dollars is now available turn key for 39 bucks. The truth is the poop storm is coming and we free people will have to stand up and demand that we are not all treated like children/criminals just because of a fraction of a percent who can't be trusted with sharp sticks, kitchen knives, baseball bats, guns, cars or butterball turkeys. We must insist that criminal acts be punished, not the implements employed in criminal acts. I am a free American and I will drive to the store in my car, eat my butterball turkey with my fork and knife and play baseball with my bat. You can bet I will raise a hundred dollars worth of hell if anyone trys to ban my butterball turkey or tell me I am not allowed to use my kitchen knife in my workshop/garden.
Yes we have the responsibility to promote safety among our fellow hobbyist, but if we are afraid to be then we won't be. We can not be the land of the free if we are not the home of the brave. This is no longer a rich mans hobby. Affordable firearms are still for sale at the show only because we fight for our freedom with the strength of our numbers, in England a custom shotgun can cost 50,000 pounds if you can get a permit to buy one. We may need to form the National Laser Association in the time ahead because all around the world direct energy is taking root, its on the ships, the tanks, the planes/drones and in the soldiers hands. It is the evolution of kinetic energy and the two will eventually fall into the same category like it or not. If we allow limits and conditions then kiss it goodbye unless you are one of the wealthy permitted few and even then you will only be allowed very little. I feel like this needed to be said as I fear some of you will fall prey to the 'we need to exclude the noobs ' WRONG! We need to embrace the noobs, teach them and stand together as one.....or we will fall
I like that idea of the National Laser Enthusiast Association.
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Old 07-26-2015, 01:28 AM #339
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

I feel a lot better that someone like doughboi916 is trying to build a laser with a high-powered diode. It's much better than someone just buying some high-powered pre-made laser from some company like WL or even from a member here (if they're not informing the buyers of safety precautions). There's a certain respect that is given to something you've created yourself, and it also means the person has had to do some research to learn about building it.

As for DTR's "snarky" comment, I think it was more to point out that we're splitting hairs with the danger these lasers pose. Sure 7W or so is much more powerful than a 600mW laser, but they're both Class 4 lasers, and both are environment hazards in addition to eye hazards. We shouldn't be more or less fearful of a person with a 7W or 500mW laser; they both pose the same kind of dangers as far as lasers are concerned.
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Old 07-26-2015, 04:20 AM #340
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

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I am a free American and I will drive to the store in my car, eat my butterball turkey with my fork and knife and play baseball with my bat. You can bet I will raise a hundred dollars worth of hell if anyone trys to ban my butterball turkey or tell me I am not allowed to use my kitchen knife in my workshop/garden.
I am sorry, but you are not. You are a minority, not one of the special, anointed groups with extra rights and protections. This is no longer a simple constitutional republic. This is a police state run by bureaucrats and a marginally interested self serving political class. The majority of the public would not be concerned if they dragged you away claiming that your DEW-pointers were threatening the public good. Your legal rights would be subject to an unelected body that would determine if your possession of these devices constituted a te***rist threat.

The largely uneducated public does not assume that what they don't understand may be innocent. It's akin to the villagers with pitchforks marching toward Dr. Frankenstein's castle. Remember what happened to Richard Jewell. Although he was vindicated in the end, he went through hell.

Access to lasers will not be because you have the right. It will be because they don't bother to take them away. We do not need any bad publicity.
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Old 07-26-2015, 04:29 AM #341
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

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I am sorry, but you are not. You are a minority, not one of the special, anointed groups with extra rights and protections. This is no longer a simple constitutional republic. This is a police state run by bureaucrats and a marginally interested self serving political class. The majority of the public would not be concerned if they dragged you away claiming that your DEW-pointers were threatening the public good. Your legal rights would be subject to an unelected body that would determine if your possession of these devices constituted a te***rist threat.

The largely uneducated public does not assume that what they don't understand may be innocent. It's akin to the villagers with pitchforks marching toward Dr. Frankenstein's castle. Remember what happened to Richard Jewell. Although he was vindicated in the end, he went through hell.

Access to lasers will not be because you have the right. It will be because they don't bother to take them away. We do not need any bad publicity.
I agree. We really aren't all that free anymore. The second amendment (fourth?) states that we have a right to bare arms and that's virtually not allowed now.

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Old 07-26-2015, 06:18 AM #342
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

Quote:
Originally Posted by planters View Post
I am sorry, but you are not. You are a minority, not one of the special, anointed groups with extra rights and protections. This is no longer a simple constitutional republic. This is a police state run by bureaucrats and a marginally interested self serving political class. The majority of the public would not be concerned if they dragged you away claiming that your DEW-pointers were threatening the public good. Your legal rights would be subject to an unelected body that would determine if your possession of these devices constituted a te***rist threat.

The largely uneducated public does not assume that what they don't understand may be innocent. It's akin to the villagers with pitchforks marching toward Dr. Frankenstein's castle. Remember what happened to Richard Jewell. Although he was vindicated in the end, he went through hell.

Access to lasers will not be because you have the right. It will be because they don't bother to take them away. We do not need any bad publicity.
It's a dam sad state of affairs, we are supposed to be a free people. Innocent until proven guilty. But you are correct, possessing simple chemical knowledge can be contorted as evidence of guilt for a crime never committed.
Now I am a fan of the path of least resistance and I'm not trying to fix the world.
But the only thing that combats restrictive legislation are paid lobbyist supported by the strength of contributing members.
With output going up and prices going down I too fear restrictive legislation and if it goes unchallenged then there may be no end to it.
It's so ridiculous right now that I do not put on displays for anyone because the last time I checked to get a license to put on a laser show for profit or even public display took around 2 years to get.
I'm sure a lot of DJ's and people at home having a party just do it anyway, but I would be afraid to take the risk so I simply don't.
I understand wanting to protect the public and I agree It's a good idea, but pointing out a star with a pointer is not a public display...or is it? What if I put a laser video made in my own home with only myself in the room on youtube and accept commercial advertisement? Is that considered for profit? Does the public need to be protected? This is the problem with loosely worded blanket laws that are open to opinion, we used to be very specific with the wording, but now it's as if it only counts if they want it to. Everyone is guilty of something always so I understand not wanting to draw attention.
I'm not trying to make any trouble and it makes me sick to my stomach every day when I look at the news and see how far we have de-evolved and how much potential we have squandered.
Our elected servants act as our masters seemingly immune to the laws they swore to uphold.
I am all for doing what works and I am all the time educating people I see on youtube doing something dangerous. I do not want to draw attention, but I am also afraid of doing nothing and hoping for the best.
For now I feel like wait and see is the best choice, but in time an association of lobbyist supporting members may become the better choice.

Last edited by RedCowboy; 07-26-2015 at 07:12 AM. Reason: typo typo afterthought typo
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Old 07-26-2015, 01:24 PM #343
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

The NUBM44 diode that DTR de-canned for me has been working great for a week now. I have not noticed any decline in performance and I work it for 5 minutes at a time with added heat sinking several times a day until the heat sink is slightly warm. I use 4 NCR 18650's in series parallel to provide plenty of power. I will continue to test this de-canned diode but so far I don't notice any loss of performance without the can. The driver is set at 5.0 amps.
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Last edited by RedCowboy; 08-12-2015 at 09:18 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 07-26-2015, 08:53 PM #344
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

Many good points here. I would suggest reading through the following thread AND the links I posted to in post#2 and the information after the pics in the fire link:

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Last edited by Pman; 07-26-2015 at 09:07 PM.
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Old 07-28-2015, 01:38 AM #345
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

Regarding the distortion one person saw with the LD. I just experienced this with a 9mm NDB7875. I was working on different beam expanders and suddenly the beam got very “hazy”. I shined the raw beam (no optics) on the wall and the beam was very distorted and not uniformly bright. I tried cleaning the LD window with the same results. I looked at the window under magnification and I could see a small vertical (with respect to the junction) rectangular distortion (maybe a 10:1 aspect ratio) in/on the window exactly where the beam would pass through the window. I pushed the window into the LD can and the LD beam was perfect for about 3 seconds. When I turned the laser on again the LD was dead. I don’t know if the window moved inside the can and cut the bond wires. I probably had about 20 hours total on the laser.

I was first experimenting with a 25 mm PCX lens with no G2 lens. I was seeing some “wings” and I wanted to try the beam expander with the G2 lens and the PCX lens. I focused the beam at a close distance with the G2 lens and then brought the PCX lens into alignment. Somewhere during this the beam went “hazy”.

Is it possible that the convex end of the lens acted like a parabolic mirror that focused some of the beam back to a very small spot on the window and increasing the local power density on the small spot to where its optical power limits were exceeded? Then as I ran the laser, the local absorption of this spot increased the local temperature causing the spot to grow into the same shape as the beam?

What if I would have just run the laser like this for a while, would the window have eventually destroyed itself to allow the beam to pass through unobstructed?
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Old 07-28-2015, 09:40 AM #346
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

^seems possible but I wonder about potential smoke/debris from it making things worse.
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Old 07-28-2015, 03:48 PM #347
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

Quote:
Is it possible that the convex end of the lens acted like a parabolic mirror that focused some of the beam back to a very small spot on the window and increasing the local power density on the small spot to where its optical power limits were exceeded?
Yes, this is possible. The same risk is present when you place a flat surface in the collimated beam. The beam returns to the lens that collimated it and then converges to a high intensity.

I have heard of damaging the diode itself with these retro reflections, but its with these that I am first hearing about the windows being damaged. Maybe, that is why the manufacturers are installing such divergent, ball like lenses in the projectors.
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Old 07-28-2015, 03:59 PM #348
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

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Originally Posted by Pman View Post
^seems possible but I wonder about potential smoke/debris from it making things worse.
I agree possible but I really think more likely it is just a contaminate issue.
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Old 07-28-2015, 07:41 PM #349
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

WOW....SOoooo many excellent posts...I sincerely complement the many that have expressed such spot on points !!

I think we need to organize now

Perhaps we align ourselves with the NRA ! DEW surly falls under this umbrella
!...and if they do not now....will fall under this umbrella shortly !! Any members here well connected with the NRA ?

Strength in numbers sure seems like it would apply here !!!

To our Mod's. This entire topic deserves a heading specifically devoted to the Future of the LP hobby. We do need to be pro active and defending our hobby ! With a dedicated heading, our thoughts and preparations for preserving our hobby will have a home....and a much better platform for possible success.

I say now is the time for organization...before legislation. In that way, we will
have a fighting chance to at least interject our collective and responsible position and protect what rights we have left. History teaches us that we must defend our interest's !

Thanx again for the great comments !!!
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Old 07-28-2015, 08:23 PM #350
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

Pman, Planters, and DTR,

Thanks for the replies. Some other things came to mind today.

1) From start to finish (noticing the haze) was about 20 minutes.

2) I operated without the G2 lens for about 15 minutes.

3) The laser was operating less than 10 minutes total at various power levels.

4) The haze didn’t show up until I reinstalled the G2 lens.

5) The haze just appeared; it wasn’t a gradual thing.

6) When I looked at the input end of the G2 lens under some magnification, I could see several signs of either micro burn traces or these are locations where the AR coating was cracking. These looked liek very thin irregular shaped lines.

7) My PCX lens is uncoated

8) If contamination is an issue with the higher power lasers, can a separate external sacrificial window be glued to the outside of the can in the window location, and if it gets damaged, pop it off a glue another one on? If this is a power/energy density issue, this won’t help.
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Old 07-28-2015, 09:17 PM #351
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

I don't suppose you took a pic of the window haze?
Sounds like thermal shock but I could be wrong.
I could also speculate on why the new blocks of eight 9mm diodes have the big ball lens with the cans that just fall off but I wont. I'm going to run them open, it also lets me get the FAC lens close, it needs the can off anyway.
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Old 07-28-2015, 10:00 PM #352
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Default Re: NUBM44 6W+ 450nm Laser Diode

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDBEAM777 View Post
WOW....SOoooo many excellent posts...I sincerely complement the many that have expressed such spot on points !!

I think we need to organize now

Perhaps we align ourselves with the NRA ! DEW surly falls under this umbrella
!...and if they do not now....will fall under this umbrella shortly !! Any members here well connected with the NRA ?

Strength in numbers sure seems like it would apply here !!!

To our Mod's. This entire topic deserves a heading specifically devoted to the Future of the LP hobby. We do need to be pro active and defending our hobby ! With a dedicated heading, our thoughts and preparations for preserving our hobby will have a home....and a much better platform for possible success.

I say now is the time for organization...before legislation. In that way, we will
have a fighting chance to at least interject our collective and responsible position and protect what rights we have left. History teaches us that we must defend our interest's !

Thanx again for the great comments !!!
It's too soon, and here's the big problem. Personal DEW will need to be outside the visible spectrum to avoid collateral damage. When we do form our own association we will want to protect our entertainment/scientific devices in the visible spectrum. Best would be if we can avoid trouble all together but when an association is warranted we should have our own. We need to keep our ear to the ground and be ready to speak as one united voice when the time comes.
My comparing orgs like NRA GOA are to demonstrate collective influence.
Military DEW are tens to hundreds of thousands of watts.
Blinding weapons such as the ones used on Chinese tanks are considered a war crime.
We need to be very careful and not jump the gun, no pun intended.
And remember what we work with are not at all weapons.

Last edited by RedCowboy; 07-29-2015 at 02:33 AM. Reason: I'm the king of typographical errors and borderline illiterate it would seem.
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