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Old 05-28-2017, 02:46 AM #1
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Default NUBM44 + 4.5A driver on 2 AA's

My latest build only had room for 2 AAA cells. I have it running on 2, high drain IMR 10440 cells (not ICR cells), these are the kind that they use in e-cigs and vape pens. It'll run it for 2 minutes or so, at the most. But this is a very impressive showing for such tiny little batteries! I just thought I'd put that out there, since I was actually surprised that I got away with that, and it worked. You'll never get it to go with ICR batteries. And just for kicks, here is my dissertation on lithium batteries.

Regular Lithium Ion

ICR LiCoO2 (Lithium Cobalt Oxide)

High Discharge Capacity

IFR LiFePo4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate)
IMR LiMn2O4 (Lithium Manganese Oxide)
INR LiNiMnCoO2 (Lithium Iron Phosphate With Nickel/Manganese Oxide)

Primary cells (non-rechargeable)

ER Li-SOCl2 (Lithium Thionyl Chloride)
LS Li-SOCl2 (Lithium Thionyl Chloride)
CR Li-MnO2 (Lithium-Manganese Dioxide)
BR Li-(CF)x (Lithium-Carbon Monofluoride)
FR Li-FeS2 (Lithium-Iron Disulfide) - 1.5 to 1.8V "Energizer Ultimate"

The numbering usually refers to the size of the battery, a 14500 refers to "AA" size of 14mm x 45mm, a 18650 is 18mm x 65mm, and so on. At least with ICR, IMR, INR, and IFR types. So, "AA" size 3.7V primary cells are ER14500 or LS14500.

I'm going to add a breakdown on C rating.
There are a couple of factors to consider when trying to quantify capacity and discharge capacity. The "C" number is the minimum time the battery can be safely discharged completely in, quantified in fractions of one hour. So when they give you the capacity in mAh, they are telling you the 1C for the battery. So a 5Ah battery can be discharged completely if discharged @ 5A for one hour. This way you can multiply the mAh capacity by the C number to calculate the maximum sustainable discharge rate, in amps, with the time you can do it in given.
Let's say we have 2 identical looking packs, same size and weight, same capacity, 5Ah, but we'll make the first one a 20C and the other a 30C. The 20C battery can be discharged in (60/20=3) 3 minutes @ (20x5=100) 100A. The 30C battery can be discharged in (60/30=2) 2 minutes @ (30x5=150) 150A.

I hope maybe that will be helpful to someone, it took some research to learn all that. And if you want a high power laser, you really need high power batteries.


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Old 05-28-2017, 03:01 AM #2
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Default Re: NUBM44 + 4.5A driver on 2 AA's

Very interesting information, worth making a copy of
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Old 05-28-2017, 05:16 AM #3
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Default Re: NUBM44 + 4.5A driver on 2 AA's

Why would you put such a massive energy burning diode in such a small host? That diode heats up very quickly also. You might not have it long if you didn't heat sink it well.
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Old 05-28-2017, 09:43 AM #4
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Default Re: NUBM44 + 4.5A driver on 2 AA's

Hi,
Wow that is a small host for such a diode of the 9mm size. As Paul said this diode needs a large mass heat sinking to cool it . Save it for when you get a larger host and then it will last a long time. Just curious did you heat sink the driver if not it could warm up fast and run out of regulation . Well good luck and an interesting view on those batteries.

Rich
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Old 05-28-2017, 10:17 AM #5
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Default Re: NUBM44 + 4.5A driver on 2 AA's

The host is a phaser, and it's the cheapest one. It had plenty of room for a heatsink, so that isn't an issue. But it only had room in the handle for 2 AAA cells. The first one I built I used a Playmates phaser, and it had a slightly larger handle to hold 2 AA cells, but it was too big, and didn't look right. They are also entirely too expensive to keep gutting as hosts every time they come out with a more powerful blue diode I just have to build another laser out of. I did the math, first, and the IMR 10440 cells seemed like they'd be up to it, and they are. I used other batteries to test it, and there isn't any difference, except that these don't last very long, but that's okay. And the cheap phaser has a really tiny, basic sound board that I was able to keep, the one in the Playmates is too big. I sandwiched the driver board between 2 pieces of copper plate with thermal epoxy as mayo, and used a bit more to tack the sound board on with it, it worked out nicely. And I put real stainless steel screen in the top, replacing the fake plastic screen thing that came with it. It keeps it cooler inside, and I can hear the sound board better. The heat sink I used is made for the 12mm module case, and has a mushroom head of fins, I was able to fit that inside the plastic knob looking piece that goes on the business end, so the whole front end is heatsink. And then I filled in the rest of the voids inside with lead buckshot, so it has some weight to it, I like that. It just didn't feel right light, it still felt like a toy, adding weight to it really makes the build, I think. But you'd have to hold it in your hand to understand why. It weighs 12.5 ounces, now. That's as heavy as I could get it. On this build, I even added a protection pcb for the batteries, and a USB charger. Got all that to fit. And for the record, the "nice" model phasers are entirely useless for a build, they have no room whatsoever, and only have room for a couple of button cells for the batteries. Those the top mini hand phaser thing is actually where all the electronics are, and there is no room for anything in those. The cheapest one was the most practical, I just had to paint the thing over, it was blue and orange when I got it. It's only drawback was the AAA cells, but it looks better because of that.

It's got to be a phaser, so I can claim it as a weapon if I get stopped by the cops. "Yes officer, I have a phaser. Haven't you ever seen 'Star Trek'? Then surely you know what a phaser is." Then when they find it, and inquire farther, like why do I have a phaser, I get to say "Because I think there are Klingons around Uranus!" I might get my ass kicked, or arrested, but that will be worth it for the laugh! If nothing else, it'll spin their heads around good. That's even better than when one asked me "Do you do drugs?" and I replied "Well, that depends. What have you got?"
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In my experience, the secret to happiness is learning to sort the occasional good idea from an endless body of bad ones.

Rubie's TOS Phaser + NUBM44 & 4.5A driver.

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Old 05-28-2017, 12:27 PM #6
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Default Re: NUBM44 + 4.5A driver on 2 AA's

I'd sure like to push the little IMR 10440 batteries as hard as I can, say, just one cell into a boost type regulator. I'm using two cells, now, since the regulator I have is the buck type, and needs a higher voltage to operate. I bet it'll do it, but again, for only half as long, or less. The point is, though, with the right batteries, the high drain, high C IMR batteries, you can get by with the smallest ones they make, or I did, anyway. I agree, it's a hell of a lot of laser for those dinky little things, but they handle just fine. They don't even get very warm. Noting gets very warm, actually, those tiny batteries won't keep the thing running for more than a few minutes. But they impressed the hell out of me on this project. My last laser (1.6 watts), I gutted the 2, AA compartment and stuck in an ICR 18650, first, and later a 1000mAh lipo pack from the r/c store to get enough power. What the 18650 lacked in C rating, it made up for in capacity, so it made about the same amperage, but lasted longer. Seeing 2 AAA size batteries power this much laser just blows my mind. This wouldn't have been possible in any way 5 or 10 years ago, and I would have totally scoffed off anyone who told me this would ever be possible.
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Old 05-28-2017, 12:35 PM #7
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Default Re: NUBM44 + 4.5A driver on 2 AA's

GVLLD, you are talking about the "Rubie's" TOS?
Other than that Halloween safety color they come with that paint won't fix i'm having a blast modding them. So much room for sinking inside, enough for a 1" OD x 2" long. More if you incorporate a custom AL nozzle into it..
Lifetime17 has made me about 7 custom sinks which allows me to slide on the factory plastic nozzle. He even made machined a AL nozzle that I use to focus it.
The electronic's though as you see are awefull but iv'e managed to find replacement speaker's, but those only.
Are you using the same 10440's to power the sound board also? You can fit some buttons cells to run the sound board separate.

Iv'e also considered the off size battery's like a 13450 or 14340 for a little more capacity as it's easier to widen the battery box than lengthen the contacts.
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Old 05-28-2017, 12:47 PM #8
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Default Re: NUBM44 + 4.5A driver on 2 AA's

Yep, the Rubie's, it's turned out to be the best host of the bunch. And this is what I used for a heat sink, it was $5.



I smoothed off the edges on it a bit, and dug as much materiel as I could from inside the orange knob thing, and after a coat of silver paint, I drove it over the fins with a hammer, and you would never know it was there. That fits a 12mm module inside, I lubed it up with heat sink compound when I put it in. The first incarnations I didn't bother with the silver plastic, I just left it showing the fins. That thing is the exact right shape and size to fit there, even the narrow part fits into the phaser just right, so the plastic barbette grips it tightly. And finally, I like to take one of those tube tips, like come with a tube of silicone, and glue that around the lens, it looks like the original, and it lights up when the laser is on!

The best part about mine, is I built this one for under $250, the last one cost me twice that! And SIX WATTS!! NUTS!
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Rubie's TOS Phaser + NUBM44 & 4.5A driver.

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Old 05-28-2017, 01:07 PM #9
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Default Re: NUBM44 + 4.5A driver on 2 AA's

Quote:
Originally Posted by GSS View Post
GVLLD, you are talking about the "Rubie's" TOS?
Other than that Halloween safety color they come with that paint won't fix i'm having a blast modding them. So much room for sinking inside, enough for a 1" OD x 2" long. More if you incorporate a custom AL nozzle into it..
Lifetime17 has made me about 7 custom sinks which allows me to slide on the factory plastic nozzle. He even made machined a AL nozzle that I use to focus it.
The electronic's though as you see are awefull but iv'e managed to find replacement speaker's, but those only.
Are you using the same 10440's to power the sound board also? You can fit some buttons cells to run the sound board separate.

Iv'e also considered the off size battery's like a 13450 or 14340 for a little more capacity as it's easier to widen the battery box than lengthen the contacts.
If you don't mind me asking, how much laser have you managed to stuff into Rubie's phaser, and what did you use for a power supply? Ruby only allocated us room for 2 AAA cells, and personally, I thought that using IMR 10440 cells was a stroke of genius. I have the NUBM44 and a 4.5A driver in mine, and it's been taking a beating for 6 months now, it's great. I assume that most folks are using hosts that look like the flashlights the cops beat you over the head with, this is a LOT of laser to put in your pocket.

And yes, I'm running everything off the two batteries, I used an LM78L33 regulator to run the sound board, and an indicator led I put inside the knob on top, which is also my power switch.
What I did to the sound board is, I took off the button popping thingy it had for a switch, and bridged the contacts on it. I cut the trace on the board that went to the power wire, and I soldered the regulator on to bridge the gap, as it were, and connected it to the trigger switch. I stuck the sound board onto the sandwich I made out of the driver board, to heat sink it, so connecting those together was the natural thing to do. As it works, it's more like my driver sandwich is glued to the sound board, which remains exactly where it was, I did reface the speaker, though, since I used real stainless steel mesh wire for the top part.
I'm touching it up a bit, then I'll take some pictures. I've got six months of miles on it, and the paint is coming off in some places, it is still paint on plastic, after all. And I love this thing, I take it all over and show it off, don't you?
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I'm a toxic agent on a dangerous mission so secret that even I don't know what it is, and if I did, I'd have to kill myself!
In my experience, the secret to happiness is learning to sort the occasional good idea from an endless body of bad ones.

Rubie's TOS Phaser + NUBM44 & 4.5A driver.

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Old 05-28-2017, 01:10 PM #10
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Default Re: NUBM44 + 4.5A driver on 2 AA's

They sure are the easiest and just about as screen close as you will get.
That finned sink has to be from Aplightingworld?
The Diamond select's phaser's just take to much work and iv'e limited mine to the 532 modules..They can be done but why as with paint the Rubie's look the same. "Jon Lussier" on ebay who mods the Diamond Selects for big money actually now sells just a AL nozzle with a extended heat sink that fits inside the Diamond S that hold a 12mm module. Quite cheap actually. You should look at it if your curious.
Find some quality acrylic rod and drill a hole through it for the emitter and you will love the glow it puts out. I was fortunate to be able to get a few thrown away clear emitter tips from a Diamond select and again when drilling a through hole they look great.
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Old 05-28-2017, 01:22 PM #11
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Default Re: NUBM44 + 4.5A driver on 2 AA's

As your other question,
So far the M02 520 at 1.8A which puts out roughly 1W. This diode gets hot! but as you know the fun of these is with short blasts and the "phaser" sound..
but i'm using a 1"x 1 1/2" long sink so its fine and my other's with up to the M140 at 2W+ is all set.
I'm also quite surprised the little 10440's hold up quite well. I am using Efest's which other than the UltraFires are the only brand available in this size, or at least to what I see?
I'm using 3 button cells to run the sound seperate. I cut the battery box out of a cheap dollar store door alarm and it fits inside behind where the molding of the P1 is.
It not fancy but I use a micro switch for the laser that the phaser switch triggers just as its hitting the foil switch on the sound board.
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Last edited by GSS; 05-28-2017 at 01:37 PM.
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Old 05-28-2017, 01:33 PM #12
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Default Re: NUBM44 + 4.5A driver on 2 AA's

The trick with the batteries is EFEST makes more than one kind of lithium battery. We really need the high drain type, IMR if we are going to get away with using the dinkiest ones to run the biggest laser we could get, you know? I used these:
2 NEW EFEST IMR 10440 Li-Mn RECHARGEABLE BATTERY 3.7v 350mAh blue button top | eBay

Not all lithium batteries are the same, not by any means. These are becoming hot since they are the only kind of batteries that can run a pocket vaporizer, I have one, it shorts the battery across about a half an ohm of nichrome heating wire. I tired an ICR battery once, and the battery got hot, not the vape pen. The other good one would be INR, but they don't make those in this size. Those are what the best electric bicycles use for batteries, now.
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Old 05-28-2017, 01:38 PM #13
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Default Re: NUBM44 + 4.5A driver on 2 AA's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUpjrIfNkME
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Old 05-28-2017, 01:50 PM #14
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Default Re: NUBM44 + 4.5A driver on 2 AA's

Yup, those are the same one's i'm using..and thanks for the heads up on the differences.
Have you considered the odd sized battery's I mentioned. Its alot easier to widen the inside of the handle to fit a 13450 or 14340 that i'm seeing offered. Twice the capacity?
Nice video I'm worried more of the low quality of the sound board going out than the laser, but they are cheap enough to buy more. They were around $8 to $9 last Halloween but crept up to almost $20.
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Old 05-28-2017, 01:56 PM #15
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Default Re: NUBM44 + 4.5A driver on 2 AA's

You should really ditch the button cells, and get some of these, instead. They are quite efficient for running things like the soundboard.
5 x L78L33ACZ 78L33 + 3.3V Voltage Regulator IC TO-92 | eBay

These are perfect and easy to do, they have 3 pins, in, out, and ground. You solder the ground to where the black wire on your board attaches, then from the red wire, cut the trace on the board, and attach the input to the wire side of the cut, and the out to the other side. It'll end up splayed out nice and flat, glue it down if you want. These can handle more voltage than you will ever be able to give them in a project like this. Putting the regulator on the sound board ensures that it will never burn, no matter what you do. I sometimes solder a diode across the power wires on stuff, backwards, for reverse polarity protection. In that event, the diode will burn up, and nothing else.
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I'm a toxic agent on a dangerous mission so secret that even I don't know what it is, and if I did, I'd have to kill myself!
In my experience, the secret to happiness is learning to sort the occasional good idea from an endless body of bad ones.

Rubie's TOS Phaser + NUBM44 & 4.5A driver.

Last edited by GVLLD M981; 05-28-2017 at 02:02 PM.
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Old 05-28-2017, 02:35 PM #16
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Default Re: NUBM44 + 4.5A driver on 2 AA's

Quote:
Originally Posted by GVLLD M981 View Post
You should really ditch the button cells, and get some of these, instead. They are quite efficient for running things like the soundboard.
5 x L78L33ACZ 78L33 + 3.3V Voltage Regulator IC TO-92 | eBay

These are perfect and easy to do, they have 3 pins, in, out, and ground. You solder the ground to where the black wire on your board attaches, then from the red wire, cut the trace on the board, and attach the input to the wire side of the cut, and the out to the other side. It'll end up splayed out nice and flat, glue it down if you want. These can handle more voltage than you will ever be able to give them in a project like this. Putting the regulator on the sound board ensures that it will never burn, no matter what you do. I sometimes solder a diode across the power wires on stuff, backwards, for reverse polarity protection. In that event, the diode will burn up, and nothing else.
Well I don't really have a steady hand to begin with and even though you explained it pretty simple, I would probably reheat the sound board over and over and they aren't quality to begin with. The 3, 44 button cells at 4.5V does make it a bit louder and can easily replace them..How much power does this setup if any rob from the 2 10440's from the laser itself?
I would like to add a safety switch though.
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"Diamond Select" TOS Phaser 532 190mw
"Diamond Select" TOS Phaser 532 150mw
"Rubie's" TOS Phaser M02 520 1.8A
"Rubie's" TOS Phaser A140 1.4A
"Rubie"s" TOS Phaser A140 1.1A "proto focus nozzle(Lifetime)"
"Rubie's" TOS Phaser M140 1.8A

Last edited by GSS; 05-28-2017 at 07:09 PM.
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