Old 07-23-2015, 01:54 AM #33
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Default Re: NUBM07E 465nm 2.9W Diode Test (Hitting 470nm+)

OK, thanks for the clarification. Now, if the lens is indeed an asphere operating at a distance greater than its FL from the diode then it will cause a near field convergence (then divergence) and add spherical aberration. A second asphere operating in the diverging beam at a distance less than its FL from the focus may correct this.

What do you think about sorta "re-canning" these as I suggested?


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Old 07-23-2015, 01:55 AM #34
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Default Re: NUBM07E 465nm 2.9W Diode Test (Hitting 470nm+)

Planters, Iam working on that answer right now for the past 2 weeks. Iam over this "supposition" as i personally IMO think this is not true and only held true back in the late 90's.Maybe not even then.

Iam not afraid to admit i am wrong if i am but i dont believe it true anymore. Rather then sit here i think its time to settle this answer. First by trying to get an answer from them.

Nickia is not forth coming here and you kinda got to work to get the answer but i did receive 2 answers from them. With the 2nd answer today.


What i believe and i base this on what Nickia told me ~4 years ago when i asked them this same question when this came to life about the 7775 (A130/A140) type diodes and iam sure it holds true too for the M140 and maybe even the 9mm 7875 but thats not confirmed.
Iam just tired of hearing that today blue diodes are Back filled with a gas that prevents them from damage. I do not believe it. At least not on large production diodes.


I was told from Nickia then they are Just hermetically sealed to keep out air particles and any debris more or less. A plain old Hermetically seal.

I ask this same question in today's time and basically the short and simple question to them was, Are the Blue diodes of today 7875 or 7A75 simple sealed to keep dust and particles out or are they also back filled with some gas to prevent damage.

First reply i got from them:

NDB7875 is hermetically sealed to prevent degradation

Not Clear...

2nd email goes out to them and.....

This is the reply i got from them today:

LD is sealed to keep out dust as well as maintain particular atmosphere. The specifics of this are proprietary.

So still not clear. Hopefully 3rd times a charm right.?

They never answered the part where i asked them if they are back filled On 2 of my email responses. So i think they are trying not to answer it. So i sent them a third one to simply answer me with a Yes or No to be clear and iam waiting on that answer.

I do not think they have a gas in them. Hell not even some of my expensive DPSS/OPS lasers are back filled.

I think they are just sealed to keep the particals and dust out . If iam wrong "so be it". Until then i want to hear if from Nickia that these new diodes are diffrent then what they told me years ago.

I actually wanted to ask you this Eric. Do you have a tool or can think of a tool or rather equipment to make that we can take a diode, put it in this "Tool" break the window and test to see if gas or whatever escapes from the can.? Dont care for what If gas is in there but just to tell us if there is something else in it.. I know such equipment exists but its pretty expensive. Maybe there is a Cheaper solution but i dont have a clue. Have an idea.?
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Old 07-23-2015, 02:27 AM #35
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Default Re: NUBM07E 465nm 2.9W Diode Test (Hitting 470nm+)

Wonderful work !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanx to all of you !!!

I call BS !! Just a guess !!! But....what a cheap way to ....er....ah..."throw cold water"...on extraction, then de-canning to repurpose the LD !!! Baa loney !!!
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Old 07-23-2015, 02:56 AM #36
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Default Re: NUBM07E 465nm 2.9W Diode Test (Hitting 470nm+)

I dont think it fully Bull i know its not because i know some diodes/lasers are/where backfilled with Nitrogen and other Gases that are proprietary but are they still doing it today. Even some of my really expensive DPSS lasers are just hermetically sealed only.

Anyway New Videos:

Note the NUBM07E is on the top & the 44 is on the bottom. It is also to be noted that the 44 is flipped upside down by mistake so that all the extra strips are on the top side of the image beam rather then the bottom. Doesnt matter but i'd like that to be clear as if the diode was right side up you would see all the extra strips mostly on the bottom. Both diodes where at 3.5A so thats pretty much full power.




Hope those are clear enough to see what iam talkign about the single strip on the 07E.
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Old 07-23-2015, 03:17 AM #37
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Default Re: NUBM07E 465nm 2.9W Diode Test (Hitting 470nm+)

Hmmmmm ....THANX !!! That NUBM07E....looks to me....like the collimated....far field profile of the P73 /Oclaro 63193....B4 Cylinderical correction.....BUT....NOT as wide....and NO stinkin wings !!! YES !!!

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Old 07-23-2015, 03:38 AM #38
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Default Re: NUBM07E 465nm 2.9W Diode Test (Hitting 470nm+)

I know how to test this, but I do not have the equipment. A mass spec could do this. But step back for a bit. If someone we know such as DTR was to harvest a diode, de-can it and directly place it into the host I described above then that is practically the best that you could do even if you knew the composition of the mystery gas. A glove box with filtered air would be a nice touch, but I doubt that would be necessary. Now, just set up a driver in an out of the way location and run the diode at moderate power for say a week nonstop. If it survives then gas or no gas it wouldn't matter.

Also at the high powers you ran this at and the small scale of the components, if O2 or N2 or water were damaging then I think you would have seen this within a minute or so.

Finally, if the seal is epoxy I have a suspicion that when this cured, it would release vapors that would be as bad as a clean atmosphere.
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Old 07-23-2015, 07:27 PM #39
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Default Re: NUBM07E 465nm 2.9W Diode Test (Hitting 470nm+)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazeerer View Post
I actually wanted to ask you this Eric. Do you have a tool or can think of a tool or rather equipment to make that we can take a diode, put it in this "Tool" break the window and test to see if gas or whatever escapes from the can.? Dont care for what If gas is in there but just to tell us if there is something else in it.. I know such equipment exists but its pretty expensive. Maybe there is a Cheaper solution but i dont have a clue. Have an idea.?
  1. Seal diode in vacuum chamber
  2. Pull vacuum
  3. Break seal
  4. Strike arc and observe plasma
  5. Compare spectrum to air
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Old 07-23-2015, 08:57 PM #40
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Default Re: NUBM07E 465nm 2.9W Diode Test (Hitting 470nm+)

Quote:
Seal diode in vacuum chamber
Pull vacuum
Break seal
Strike arc and observe plasma
Compare spectrum to air
this is harder than it might seem. The quantity of gas under the can will be very small. If you suspect that it might be air then the vacuum will have to be high prior to opening the can. Even a 1liter chamber may have 10,000 more volume than under the can and to observe a spectrum you will have to end up with a pressure in the mm range.

What if it turned out to be, let's say argon. Does this mean that argon is necessary? It might just be a convenient, clean gas for back filling the diode. Commercial manufacturers fill tires with nitrogen and windows with argon. These fills are not necessary, but may give some advantage to the product that in the case of the diode would not warrant the effort.

No matter what the gas, if it was anything other than clean air then these harvested diodes will simply not last and they will not be worth much. It is unlikely anyone here will be able to duplicate the manufacturer's can placement and back fill with a special gas.

Rather than try to analyze the gas I would test the un-caned diode to see if it lasts without the can. If it does then that might be enough. If it doesn't then it might still be worth trying to correct the beam out of the stock can.
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Old 07-23-2015, 09:34 PM #41
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Default Re: NUBM07E 465nm 2.9W Diode Test (Hitting 470nm+)

Quote:
Originally Posted by planters View Post
I don't understand the relationship of the lens to the can. When you extract these diodes, is the can attached to the housing or is the lens actually the window in the can?

Does anyone know for a fact if the GaN semiconductor is oxygen or moisture sensitive or is this just a supposition.

An advantage to the de-caned diode is that an aspheric lens at say 8mm will experience a much lower surface intensity than a much closer window in a highly divergent beam. This shouldn't matter, but just a thought.

A solution to this contamination risk would be for DTR or anyone that harvested these diodes, to immediately install them into a mount with a G-2 lens already in place with a PTFE tape seal. He could sell them as a unit because they will need a collimator anyway. If the mount was a simple cylinder with a rear compression plate then these could be installed into a variety of supports in pointers or projectors or machine tools.

This may become more and more necessary as more manufacturers try to limit reuse by using this technique.
There are a few instances I know of where people have decanned green diodes and the die has degraded into uselessness, but I have read many times more instances of people decanning blues without issue. I de-windowed a A140 with a pair of fine point tweezers (and a steady hand) and have it exposed to air many times, and it is still functioning fine. The beam specs are much better to boot, no bar-like reflection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazeerer View Post
Planters, Iam working on that answer right now for the past 2 weeks. Iam over this "supposition" as i personally IMO think this is not true and only held true back in the late 90's.Maybe not even then.

Iam not afraid to admit i am wrong if i am but i dont believe it true anymore. Rather then sit here i think its time to settle this answer. First by trying to get an answer from them.

Nickia is not forth coming here and you kinda got to work to get the answer but i did receive 2 answers from them. With the 2nd answer today.


What i believe and i base this on what Nickia told me ~4 years ago when i asked them this same question when this came to life about the 7775 (A130/A140) type diodes and iam sure it holds true too for the M140 and maybe even the 9mm 7875 but thats not confirmed.
Iam just tired of hearing that today blue diodes are Back filled with a gas that prevents them from damage. I do not believe it. At least not on large production diodes.


I was told from Nickia then they are Just hermetically sealed to keep out air particles and any debris more or less. A plain old Hermetically seal.

I ask this same question in today's time and basically the short and simple question to them was, Are the Blue diodes of today 7875 or 7A75 simple sealed to keep dust and particles out or are they also back filled with some gas to prevent damage.

First reply i got from them:

NDB7875 is hermetically sealed to prevent degradation

Not Clear...

2nd email goes out to them and.....

This is the reply i got from them today:

LD is sealed to keep out dust as well as maintain particular atmosphere. The specifics of this are proprietary.

So still not clear. Hopefully 3rd times a charm right.?

They never answered the part where i asked them if they are back filled On 2 of my email responses. So i think they are trying not to answer it. So i sent them a third one to simply answer me with a Yes or No to be clear and iam waiting on that answer.

I do not think they have a gas in them. Hell not even some of my expensive DPSS/OPS lasers are back filled.

I think they are just sealed to keep the particals and dust out . If iam wrong "so be it". Until then i want to hear if from Nickia that these new diodes are diffrent then what they told me years ago.

I actually wanted to ask you this Eric. Do you have a tool or can think of a tool or rather equipment to make that we can take a diode, put it in this "Tool" break the window and test to see if gas or whatever escapes from the can.? Dont care for what If gas is in there but just to tell us if there is something else in it.. I know such equipment exists but its pretty expensive. Maybe there is a Cheaper solution but i dont have a clue. Have an idea.?
Personally, I don't think they are back filled. That is a fair amount of extra hassle to go through, especially when you are making diodes and immediately soldering them into blocks to be put in commercial projectors...I'm sure it's just a normal hermetic seal.
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Old 07-23-2015, 09:49 PM #42
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Default Re: NUBM07E 465nm 2.9W Diode Test (Hitting 470nm+)

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Originally Posted by planters View Post
this is harder than it might seem. The quantity of gas under the can will be very small. If you suspect that it might be air then the vacuum will have to be high prior to opening the can. Even a 1liter chamber may have 10,000 more volume than under the can and to observe a spectrum you will have to end up with a pressure in the mm range.

What if it turned out to be, let's say argon. Does this mean that argon is necessary? It might just be a convenient, clean gas for back filling the diode. Commercial manufacturers fill tires with nitrogen and windows with argon. These fills are not necessary, but may give some advantage to the product that in the case of the diode would not warrant the effort.

No matter what the gas, if it was anything other than clean air then these harvested diodes will simply not last and they will not be worth much. It is unlikely anyone here will be able to duplicate the manufacturer's can placement and back fill with a special gas.

Rather than try to analyze the gas I would test the un-caned diode to see if it lasts without the can. If it does then that might be enough. If it doesn't then it might still be worth trying to correct the beam out of the stock can.
Sorry, was not trying to answer the
question for you or suggesting that you go
and do this

Impossible to resist a question like that
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Old 07-24-2015, 02:46 AM #43
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Default Re: NUBM07E 465nm 2.9W Diode Test (Hitting 470nm+)

Quote:
Sorry, was not trying to answer the
question for you or suggesting that you go
and do this
No, I know that. But, my thought is that, sure there are ways, but they would be a significant effort and if we can't really do anything with the information then its just an interesting idea. I'm pretty sure your idea would work, however.
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Old 07-24-2015, 02:56 AM #44
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Default Re: NUBM07E 465nm 2.9W Diode Test (Hitting 470nm+)

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No, I know that. But, my thought is that, sure there are ways, but they would be a significant effort and if we can't really do anything with the information then its just an interesting idea. I'm pretty sure your idea would work, however.
Hey Planters do you think that using a super sensitive microphone to hear escaping gas would work?
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Old 07-24-2015, 03:05 AM #45
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Default Re: NUBM07E 465nm 2.9W Diode Test (Hitting 470nm+)

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Hey Planters do you think that using a super sensitive microphone to hear escaping gas would work?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA...er....ah...."some women".... can hear a bird break wind at 10 meters !!! REALLY !!!
:crac kup:


Sorry VG....I was compelled to note the above...."scientific fact" !!! I just could not resist !!! Too much serious talk today !!!....er....ah...
and sorry for using SOOooooo many capital letters.........there goes my " Dignitatis humanae ".....poof....out da window again !!!!!

Oooo....and pic of Dog done by classic cartoonist-John Lamb !!
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Old 07-24-2015, 03:28 AM #46
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Default Re: NUBM07E 465nm 2.9W Diode Test (Hitting 470nm+)

Yes, I think a super sensitive microphone could detect the release of pressurized gas.
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Old 07-24-2015, 11:06 PM #47
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Default Re: NUBM07E 465nm 2.9W Diode Test (Hitting 470nm+)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDBEAM777 View Post
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA...er....ah...."some women".... can hear a bird break wind at 10 meters !!! REALLY !!!
:crac kup:


Sorry VG....I was compelled to note the above...."scientific fact" !!! I just could not resist !!! Too much serious talk today !!!....er....ah...
and sorry for using SOOooooo many capital letters.........there goes my " Dignitatis humanae ".....poof....out da window again !!!!!

Oooo....and pic of Dog done by classic cartoonist-John Lamb !!
You're too much cdbeam

Quote:
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Yes, I think a super sensitive microphone could detect the release of pressurized gas.
Would be cheaper too no?
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Old 07-25-2015, 04:09 AM #48
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Default Re: NUBM07E 465nm 2.9W Diode Test (Hitting 470nm+)

I think these are the most exciting of the new blue diodes. The color and the far field beam are the reason. What I would like to know is what are the near field beam dimensions.

When I looked at the NUBM 44, I measured approximately 7mm x 3 mm at close to 20 cm from the diode. A six diode module built from that diode would give 40 W and a 7mm x 9mm beam. This would be the result of knife edging three diodes and PBS combining another three into that beam.

Despite the lower power of these diodes would the near field beam dimensions allow for a more compact beam?

Last edited by planters; 07-25-2015 at 04:10 AM.
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