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View Poll Results: Irresponsible?
Yes 50 45.05%
No 61 54.95%
Voters: 111. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-14-2010, 12:51 AM #17
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Default Re: New WL 445nm Spyder....irresponsible?

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Originally Posted by Hemlock_Mike View Post
MMH ----

I have purchased much more powerful lasers from ebay. 15 to 40 WATT CO2, 40 Watt 808 modules etc. There always will be something bigger and better out there.
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Old 06-14-2010, 12:54 AM #18
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Default Re: New WL 445nm Spyder....irresponsible?

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Originally Posted by hxdrummerxc View Post
I find that sentence very offensive actually....

So apparently if your not rich, your an idiot?

You make it sound like, if you can't afford a $1,000 laser, you must be an idiot.
Not trying to start any arguments or anything....

....

I have an airsoft gun that shoots 430fps, and it only costs $200 dollars... that can easily take your eye out if your irresponsible...
Out of context, you know what I meant. The general uneducated public now has a very powerful laser in their pricerange, and most people have no idea how to be safe with these devices. And yes, airsoft guns are cheap and can take out an eye. But lasers can do the same thing over a much greater distance. Someone could "paint" an entire crowd, and blind dozens of people.
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Old 06-14-2010, 12:58 AM #19
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Default Re: New WL 445nm Spyder....irresponsible?

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Originally Posted by null View Post
I think this is a valid point. High powered red diodes can be had for the price of a dvd burner (~$25 nowadays) and have been for a long time. Same goes with the cheap Chinese greens that are all over the place. As with 405 and 445 nm diodes we are seeing now. If anything, WL is more responsible than any other seller I've seen as they provide what is in my opinion adequate documentation and warnings, and even (in the case of the Arctic) 'free' laser goggles. I don't think a 100-400 mW red/green/violet laser is substantially less dangerous than a 600-1000 mW blue either for that matter.

Its easy to get upset when we feel like our beloved hobby could be threatened, but I think some fears are just a bit overdone. Sure, lasers can be used in an irresponsible fashion. So can hundreds of other items that most or all people have cheap and easy access to. Granted, it can be a bit easier to use a laser in an irresponsible way than some dangerous items, but the thought process behind the behavior is the same.

I think the focus needs to be placed on educating people on the dangers of powerful lasers. Perhaps an entity like gizmodo or some other outlet with access to a large readership of like-minded individuals can run a story about the dangers of laser misuse with some case studies? Perhaps one of the intelligent and thoughtful individuals here can approach them with the suggestion and information?

I think it is our duty as the informed and interested to be proactive and thereby ensure the safety of our hobby as well as that of those around us.
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:08 AM #20
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Default Re: New WL 445nm Spyder....irresponsible?

The laser costs what it does. Nothing can be done about that. In my opinion, I think it would be silly to spend more than $500 on ANY diode based handheld. We WILL be hearing about these in the public more and more because of the decreased expense.

The price of a laser does not and should not determine what kind of user it is meant for. As a laser retailer, WL has the responsibility of making sure that these do not come across as a toy. I think that they have done an adequate job at communicating the risks and dangers of owning and using such a unit.

Irresponsible in the price? In the product? No. It is a fair price.

What it IS, is a product that some people can responsibly use, and that some won't... JUST like any other laser. The risks are the same, regardless of magnitude.

-Tyler

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Old 06-14-2010, 01:09 AM #21
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Default Re: New WL 445nm Spyder....irresponsible?

The only thing that can be done is to hope that no one will misuse it. But raising the price will do nothing more. It has been proven that even at a high price we still have rich kids that can obtain these with no problems since their careless parents will just think it to be something harmless and its only so expensive because of a different colour of the laser not the fact that its dangerous.

I can also tell you right now that if you think these are bad just wait when the coilgun craze sets in the open. Everyone will want to try to make or buy their own and since they are not yet classified as a weapon anyone at any age could get their hands on it for misuse.

That is just the way the human race is. Some people will use a car as a car and some will use it as a murder weapon, especially under the influence..
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:13 AM #22
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Default Re: New WL 445nm Spyder....irresponsible?

I don't think it's fair to call a company as "irresponsible" just because it sells a potentially dangerous item for a low price. That's like saying we should raise the price of potato chips so that people won't eat so much junk food.
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:13 AM #23
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Default Re: New WL 445nm Spyder....irresponsible?

Oh please.

I love how you seem to think idiots don't come with money. Have you ever looked at the hip-hop industry?

As if I should have to pay more simply because it makes someone like yourself "feel" safer.

Feel-good tactics don't work.

People get what they want.

Don't make the responsible people pay for your feelings on the matter.

Get smart.
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:16 AM #24
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Default Re: New WL 445nm Spyder....irresponsible?

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Originally Posted by hxdrummerxc View Post
Not trying to start any arguments or anything....
Why not? He is.

Sounds like an offensive idiot to me.
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:17 AM #25
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Default Re: New WL 445nm Spyder....irresponsible?

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I don't think it's fair to call a company "irresponsible" just because it sells a potentially dangerous item for a low price. That's like saying we should raise the price of potato chips so that people won't eat so much junk food.
They put a higher tax on cigarettes to discourage smoking
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:28 AM #26
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Default Re: New WL 445nm Spyder....irresponsible?

At least with a coilgun craze, make a mistake and you blow your arm off on the capacitor bank. Not to mention the effort it takes to build them. With lasers, just buy it, shove in some batteries, and off you go.
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:29 AM #27
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Default Re: New WL 445nm Spyder....irresponsible?

I am not so sure that price is the problem. The ready availability of idiots and the ready availability of the laser is. When it was just parts and raw diodes, it was only Pro's and DIYers and the like that could have one.

You can have rich and poor idiots, either one could buy the laser. Is a rich idiot better than a poor idiot? No, but rich idiots can buy more stupid things.

It is just going to take an education program. It isn't wrong that the laser is out there. It is wrong that there are some who will choose to use it without the proper knowledge or research. That is nothing new, people do it with cars, home electric heaters, tools. All when used wrong and without proper education can kill you or others.

Take a simple home electric heater. If you read the directions, there are limits on extension cords, proximity to curtains and furniture, etc. Every year idiots don't listen, the plug it in on the end of a cheapo 20ft extension cord, the cord melts and sets fire to the house, or they place the heater right under the curtains, again goodbye house.

How many idiots get a fast car because it is fast? Too many and not all of them know how to use it.

This is no different. It is going to take time, but people need to learn how to use it properly. Personally, I think it should have been a read this and take this quiz or just an outright real laser safety and operation quiz on the site. I have seen little kids wave a pointer like a lightsaber, thankfully cheap reds. Now with highpower greens it has gotten interesting.


In closing,

Don't ban the laser, don't ban the purchase. Educate, spread the word and test if needed. The rest is hope.
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Old 06-14-2010, 03:09 AM #28
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Default Re: New WL 445nm Spyder....irresponsible?

Lets look at this with some numbers shall we?

Nominal Ocular Hazard Distance and Sensitive Zone exposure distance. These are numbers calculated using basic, years old laser safety for NOHD. SZED is part of the results of a FAA simulator study using a 532 nm laser aimed at actual pilots who volunteered.
Those numbers are set forth in FAA rule 7400.G

NOHD of a classic laser pointer that the public is used to, at 5 mW. Zero, Zip, Nada. Almost No hazard. That is what the public thinks when they see a pointer. SZED is about 150 feet for 5 mw, 640 nm and 2 mR divergence.

Maximum potential NOHD of a Airsoft gun, without eye safety gear, about 50-100 feet, 200 feet if you have a professional grade rifle. SZED is debatable and speculative for a Airsoft.

NOHD, based on Wicked's published data for a Spyder III is greater then 700 feet.
SZED = 2400 feet, meaning , for the purpose of this post, the distance at which its going to be very difficult if not impossible to complete a visual task if illuminated.



Steve

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Old 06-14-2010, 03:16 AM #29
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Default Re: New WL 445nm Spyder....irresponsible?

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Originally Posted by LSRFAQ View Post
Lets look at this with some numbers shall we?

Nominal Ocular Hazard Distance and Sensitive Zone exposure distance. These are numbers calculated using basic, years old laser safety for NOHD. SZED is part of the results of a FAA simulator study using a 532 nm laser aimed at actual pilots who volunteered.

NOHD of a classic laser pointer that the public is used to, at 5 mW. Zero, Zip, Nada. Almost No hazard. That is what the public thinks when they see a pointer. SZED is too hard to calculate at 5 mW.

Maximum potential NOHD of a Airsoft gun, without eye safety gear, about 50-100 feet, 200 feet if you have a professional grade rifle.

NOHD, based on Wicked's published data for a Spyder III is greater then 700 feet.
SZED = 2400 feet, meaning , for the purpose of this post, the distance at which its going to be very difficult if not impossible to complete a visual task if illuminated.



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What does airsoft have to do with lasers?
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Old 06-14-2010, 03:23 AM #30
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Default Re: New WL 445nm Spyder....irresponsible?

Either way, irresponsible people will be irresponsible and responsible people will be responsible....

The price of the laser is hardly an issue.

And wicked lasers was very responsible in setting up their safety warnings....

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Besides, even people who may be uneducated when it comes to lasers, can still understand the power....

before I was into lasers, I thought that a 5mw laser would blind me (because of the warning sticker)..... so, naturally I never shined it into anything reflective. If you would have handed me a 1,000mW laser back then.... I would have put two and two together and realized "ok, this is not a toy"

People will realize the power of this thing. And Wicked lasers does a good job at getting these warnings across.
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Old 06-14-2010, 03:24 AM #31
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Default Re: New WL 445nm Spyder....irresponsible?

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What does airsoft have to do with lasers?
Somebody else mentioned it in the thread as a similar possible nuisance if misused.

Steve
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Old 06-14-2010, 03:30 AM #32
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Default Re: New WL 445nm Spyder....irresponsible?

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Originally Posted by Things View Post
At least with a coilgun craze, make a mistake and you blow your arm off on the capacitor bank. Not to mention the effort it takes to build them. With lasers, just buy it, shove in some batteries, and off you go.
Most i done was 600 Joules. Was fun, I hide the wires and capacitors to protect against this
begins to push away his 500v 2KJ bank
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